Amma In Chicago, Jnana Takes A Hit
File under: Amma All-Over-The-Planet
The heavyweight champeen of all the world's satsang devis is in Chicago this week, giving hugs while she gossips about the mlecchas in Malayalam. Ammachi is in the middle of her annual North American summer tour and still spreading ignorance about Self-realization wherever she goes. For instance:It is pretty amazing that someone could be that present for thousands of people. So I think if there is such a thing as a realized being, it would be somebody like Amma...Thus, another devotee leaves with a completely fantastical yet effectively occluding idea about what Self-realization is and what that entails for a life. Amma may as well be stuffing her devotees' heads full of rotten paneer when they get their hugs, because that's about all they're worth in terms of an understanding about Self-realization.
Fortunately, it appears that astral milk-saturation has been achieved in the U.S. Between the milk-poisoned masses getting hugs and the deeksha-deluded masses receiving "grace", just about all the gullible bliss-bunnies are being covered now. We'll let you know if and when we detect a new threat to self-knowledge when it comes crawling across the culturescape.
posted by guruphiliac @ 9:59 AM
9 Comments:
i understand you dont have much trust with these "gurus"
after all we live in a cruel world
i also understand it is easy to get lost in distrust and i hope this wont be so in your case
peter
i understand you dont have much trust with these "gurus"
I don't trust that any guru is anymore God than anyone else. I don't trust any idea about self-realization that can be delivered verbally. I don't trust that people who believe their guru is God to know anything about their own nondual truth. And I don't trust that a guru who promotes, or allows themselves to be promoted as God, has their devotees' best interests in mind.
Most gurus I'm generally ok with, as long as they're self-realized yet not claiming to be especially divine because of it. All the rest are at best, slightly kooky narcissists, and at worst, psychotically grandiose, criminal flimflammers.
Amma is somewhere in-between. I can see that she does have the best interests of her devotees at heart. But since she allows the miracle-mongering and bullshit claims of special divinity to go on around her, she's not much of a guru, and much more just another magic space mommy sought out by those whose infantile seeking of spiritual surrogate parenting gets directly in the way of their coming to recognize their own nondual truth.
Amma is the real deal. I don't know of another person on the planet who has done more for human consciousness and human plight. Amma is clear with her devotees as to her nature and what a guru is. There is no BS and no misleading PR in any category. Ammachi (amma.org) is a blessed soul and we are so lucky she is on the planet. Her ability to encourage and be an example for love and forgiveness is nothing but remarkable. I'm sad to hear someone with a foggy and misdirected picture of Amma. I'm a skeptic - and there is nothing but pure light coming from Amma.
If Amma was Herself telling these fantastic stories, or if She Herself was telling people to surrender to Her or any other of the "come be my disciple" trips that fake gurus lay, I would agree with you. But She doesn't. Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharshi and Sri Ramakrishna prophecized Divine Mother's Incarnation in these times. Check your samskaras at the front office and goto see Amma again. You'll see nothing but the shining Self of pure love.
If Amma was Herself telling these fantastic stories, or if She Herself was telling people to surrender to Her or any other of the "come be my disciple" trips that fake gurus lay, I would agree with you. But She doesn't.
Because she doesn't have to, because she's got armies of devotees doing it for her.
The woman allows an arati to be performed to her as if she were a living goddess. That's all the indictment I need to call her a adoration-surfing space-mommy.
Sri Aurobindo, Ramana Maharshi and Sri Ramakrishna prophecized Divine Mother's Incarnation in these times.
So what? Pat Robertson thinks the Lord is coming. Do you believe him?
Check your samskaras at the front office and goto see Amma again. You'll see nothing but the shining Self of pure love.
Your quaint and entirely uncritical projection has been noted. And like it or not, the human emotion 'love' has as much to do with our truth as the Self as my dog's ass.
Jody,
Your writing is enjoyable because of your wit, but you are very short sighted when it comes to existential knowledge of God. You seem to think that God is "all good", but that is a mere fallacy. If God were all good, there wouldn't be black holes, neutron stars emanating lethal levels of radiation, hurricaines, tsunamis, nuclear bombs or death for that matter.
What you fail to realize is that God encompasses both Good AND Evil. The deathless spirt known as God has more divine moods than you have criticisms of others. You seem to think that the gurus should imitate only God's virtuous qualities, which is a simplistic view. God isn't as sweet as you make him out to be. All the violence of colliding worlds, infinite dark matter, deep hellish cold and cosmic choas in the universe are also part of his nature and embedded into ours as well.
Your objection to Amma's followers referring to her as God is ridiculous. Every bit of matter in front of your face is a manifestation of God. Amma herself has said we are the same as her - all divine manifestations.
Here is an easy metaphor that even you may understand. Think of God as an apple pie. If God then cut himself into many slices, aren't those slices still part of the original pie? Now think of yourself as a "crumb" of that pie. Once you've digested this lesson, we'll move on to particle physics.
If you or anyone else thinks that Sai Baba is different from God himself because of a child sex scandal, you're mistaken. Who do you think invented sex - Hollywood? Here's a hint - he's a horny devil.
Stop expecting gurus or anyone else to fit into your rigid mold of good and evil. You're only perpetuating your own ignorance by doing so. After all, you are not going to be physically manifest forever, so you should really make an effort to understand your unmanifest form because there's no blogging about it in the afterlife.
Your writing is enjoyable because of your wit,
Thank you!
but you are very short sighted when it comes to existential knowledge of God. You seem to think that God is "all good", but that is a mere fallacy.
You are woefully mistaken as to what I think about God.
If God were all good, there wouldn't be black holes, neutron stars emanating lethal levels of radiation, hurricaines, tsunamis, nuclear bombs or death for that matter.
When people ask me to give a description of my Ishta Devata, I tell them to imagine a supermassive black hole at the center of a huge galaxy. I have them picture entire star systems, full of life of every kind, getting sucked into oblivion, instantaneously.
What you fail to realize is that God encompasses both Good AND Evil. The deathless spirt known as God has more divine moods than you have criticisms of others.
Brahman has no mood except Itself.
You seem to think that the gurus should imitate only God's virtuous qualities, which is a simplistic view.
You couldn't be more wrong than if you had told me that Britney Spears was the reincarnation of Sri Sarada Devi.
I believe gurus should be human beings, which is just what they are. They are no more divine than anyone else. This includes Ammachi.
She has nothing over any other space-mommy except a better bedside manner and a good "look" for a traveling devi.
God isn't as sweet as you make him out to be. All the violence of colliding worlds, infinite dark matter, deep hellish cold and cosmic choas in the universe are also part of his nature and embedded into ours as well.
What you think I think about God and what I actually think about God are probably the most distant objects in the manifest universe.
Your objection to Amma's followers referring to her as God is ridiculous. Every bit of matter in front of your face is a manifestation of God.
So why single out Amma?
Because she is realized? I could put you into email contact with 10 realized individuals in one fell swoop. It's just not that big a deal, yet making it a big deal is exactly why people are missing it all day long.
Because she has magic powers?
All contained in the minds of those who believe in them.
It's because she demonstrates a serious commitment to helping others, and she looks the part. All her glorious divinity is simply a projection of your own. All power lies within you. She is just a fancy altar murti.
Amma herself has said we are the same as her - all divine manifestations.
Right. That's why she's a repudiator-cultivator space-mommy. She'll deny it as a way of appearing humble as she lets every other single person in her org promote her as especially divine.
Here is an easy metaphor that even you may understand. Think of God as an apple pie. If God then cut himself into many slices, aren't those slices still part of the original pie? Now think of yourself as a "crumb" of that pie. Once you've digested this lesson, we'll move on to particle physics.
What a woefully decrepit metaphor! How's this: think of God as a silent, still pool in a cave deep inside the Earth. Now think of yourself as this same silent, still pool, reflected in the life of an individual, yourself.
Particle physics, like everything else you can think of, has as much to do with your truth as the Self as my dog's ass.
If you or anyone else thinks that Sai Baba is different from God himself because of a child sex scandal, you're mistaken.
It's you who are mistaken, deeply so, about what I believe about God and gurus.
Who do you think invented sex - Hollywood? Here's a hint - he's a horny devil.
...
Stop expecting gurus or anyone else to fit into your rigid mold of good and evil.
You have quite a way with straw.
You're only perpetuating your own ignorance by doing so.
That's all any of us can do, including Amma. She may know herself as the Self, but as soon as she opens her mouth, she has irreparably damaged any chance to convey it.
After all, you are not going to be physically manifest forever, so you should really make an effort to understand your unmanifest form
Heh.
because there's no blogging about it in the afterlife.
Afterlife?! What afterlife! I don't need no steeenking afterlife!
The impersonal state of enlightenment that knows it Self as All is bland, and perfect only in its knowledge. jnan is one way. Know thyself, great. Bhakti is another, and those beings who are human (like Amma) and divine (like Amma) (or you or me or the homeless guy down the street) will meet and be in relation long after you've dissolved into the White Light. God... cant say I understand Him/Her/They/We/It any more than any spiritual aspirant, but... I do grok my own divine nature and honor others when I say Namaste. Does Amma have to be recognized as an incarnation of anyone but her mortal self to be recognized as a teacher or example? No... no more than you do, or I do. Guru is everywhere, appearing as everyone.
insight and your dogs ass seem to go hand in hand with you, as you commit the worst sins of any false guru: you come off with a self-righteous i-know-everything-about- enlightenment attitude. Must be that you are not seeking Lord Brahma's post, but Shiva's, since he is the false ego of God...
But that's still divine.
So go clamly and gently to the bliss of knowing you are right in mocking people who have faith... and be righteous to fault until the end of the beginning of the end...
namaste
The impersonal state of enlightenment that knows it Self as All is bland, and perfect only in its knowledge. jnan is one way. Know thyself, great.
The question to ask here is, who is there to decide what is bland or not? In other words, if you find something to be bland, you are finding such from the perspective of a point of view. It's not different than finding sex with multiple hookers to be exciting. (Or whatever else may float your boat.)
Also, the argument that jnana is bland and inferior to bhakti was probably formulated by Vaishnavas in their perpetual debate with the Shaivates. Nice to see Amma picking up that mythology for her own use.
Bhakti is another, and those beings who are human (like Amma) and divine (like Amma) (or you or me or the homeless guy down the street) will meet and be in relation long after you've dissolved into the White Light.
Only with the aid of the delusion of their individuality.
Also, dissolving into white light has as much to do with jnana as my dog's ass. It's just another of the very large set of occluding ideas about self-realization that only prevent self-realization.
Please note: I'm not down on bhakti. I am a bhakta. I've been initiated as a bhakta. However, being in love with God is one thing, having your swamis promote the idea that you are more God than your devotees – and that you can perform miracles – all because it keeps seats filled at the satsang, to the detriment of your devotees self-understanding, is entirely another thing.
insight and your dogs ass seem to go hand in hand with you
My dog's ass: the neti, neti of the new millennium.
as you commit the worst sins of any false guru: you come off with a self-righteous i-know-everything-about- enlightenment attitude.
That is the role of the proverbial asshole with an opinion. But guess what? It's all in the Upanishads, too. That's what Amma is pooping on every time she allows someone to believe she is God more than they.
go clamly and gently to the bliss of knowing you are right in mocking people who have faith...
True faith cannot be shaken by a jerk like me. If I give anyone cause to consider what they are invested in, their investment is not very deep, and perhaps its time to invest in something else.
and be righteous to fault until the end of the beginning of the end...
If you mean: call it like I see it, I will.
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