Tuesday, July 11, 2006

The Mystery Of The Missing Devi

File under: The Siddhi of PR and Real True Gurus

We've always had a warm spot in our allegedly cold heart for Gurumayi Chidvilasananda. It's mostly because we think she's the most beautiful devi to hit the planet since Sri Sarada Devi in the late 19th century. Also, we are acquainted with two outstanding individuals who are devotees of the woman. If we take them to be barometers of their guru's fitness as a spiritual guide, then Gurumayi has a lot more going on than just her good looks.

Not that she hasn't weathered her share of scandals. First, her guru, Muktananda, got caught with his hands where they didn't belong. Then, she yanked the whole shebang away from her own brother after he was caught with his hands where they didn't belong. There is also the existence of a sizable community of ex-devotees to consider, as well as rumors of her having gone under the knife for a bit of aesthetic self-improvement, which wouldn't bother us in any event, although it does make good copy for a gossip blog.

Once in the late 80s we were taken to a Gurumayi appearance at the SYDA ashram in Oakland, CA. At that time, we weren't really impressed with what she said, and we were definitely turned off by all the hoopla around her. The folks there were having a wiggling contest with one another under the conceit of experiencing kriyas. It looked more like a mass seizure to us.

We experienced Gurumayi once again 5 years ago, when we attended a Sunday service at another SYDA center. The folks there were chanting the Guru Gita to a live satellite transmission of Gurumayi, who wasn't doing or saying much as she sat in a chair looking her holiest for the camera. It gave us the distinct impression they were worshipping some kind of idiot-box goddess. We're pretty accepting of whatever floats your boat as long as it's not hurting anyone, but that creeped us out big time.

But a year ago in March 2005, Gurumayi had her world center's homepage taken down and replaced with this letter. Then, folks began to ask us where Gurumayi was. We also noticed an uptick in "where is Gurumayi" searches on Google. There are many who seem to be wondering where in the world is Gurumayi.

We are very happy to report that the mystery has been solved:
I just got a letter from a friend who just had satsang with her up in the [South Fallsburg, NY] ashram. She's around. I think, basically, she's just sick of the 'trendiness' of S[iddha] Y[oga]. That wasn't Baba [Muktananda]'s mission--to make Siddha Yoga a trendy thing.
When we began to consider the ramifications of Gurumayi pulling herself out of her schtick and going AWOL, we found ourselves blinded by our admiration for her to make such a move. It would appear that Gurumayi got fed up with her own big-time guru production and just went and pulled the plug on it all, essentially disbanding and decentralizing her entire organization! If this is true, it would be almost unprecedented and a fantastic indication that the gal has got it going on in a way every other big-time guru does not. As a service to her devotees and self-realization in general, she could not have done anything better than exactly what she did, which was to remove herself from the pedestal her devotees have built up underneath her.

This puts Gurumayi in a whole different class of gurus – the real ones. Not that there aren't thousands, if not millions who still believe she is God walking the Earth. But the fact that she's stopped working that angle indicates the woman actually has the best interests of her devotees and their own self-knowledge at heart, rather than just her own glorification, as most of the other big-time gurus do.

Now, Gurumayi is even more stunningly beautiful than she's ever seemed before. We're doing everything we can to not jump into the truck right now and drive to New York so we can stalk the woman, if only to express our deep appreciation for her recognition of the problems that accompany living guru bhakti and all the occlusion it can create in the minds of the devotees. The monster narcissacharyas like Sri Sri, the Babaster, Kracki and Adi Da need to take a good hard look at the trail she's blazing if any of them actually really care about their devotees. Unfortunately, that's about as likely as Pastor Fred showing up at the Folsom Street Fair in bare-assed leather chaps, not that anyone would ever want to see that.

Gurumayi has proven it's not all about her, it's all about her devotees. That places her on the Real True Gurus list around here, and we are exceedingly happy to have her there (and not just because we find her so incredibly hot.)

147 Comments:

At 7/12/2006 7:21 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My god!
Have you lost your mind?! is this a joke? or are you on drugs? check out ex-Syda (the yahoo group)for a glimpse into the "truth" of syda and gurumayi.The LAST thing on gurumay's agenda is her devotees! She has, finally, amassed enough money, gotten tired of the adultation (which SHE created) and is moving on to a life of shopping! If you think this has anything to do with sprituality, you are sadly mistaken. I don't know who your "two friends" are but why not look at Sally Kempton as an example of the ethics of siddha yoga: a woman who lied, cut a deal and ran, setting up shop on her own (teaching her own brand of ethical spirituality). I cannot believe that you have fallen for gurumayi's bait...are you joking?

a disgusted ex-devotee

 
At 7/12/2006 7:33 AM, Blogger jacflash said...

I don't think she's proven anything like that, and I wonder what scandal they're trying to dodge this time. She is my own personal Queen of Creepy. My experiences with SYDA (which were considerable) led me to conclude that they were just another self-deluded (and occluded) cult of personality. I don't see anything on their current website to suggest that I should revise my opinion.

 
At 7/12/2006 7:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You are a "guru-buster" and you think gurumayi chidvilasananda is a "real true guru"? you have really shot yourself in the foot here! for the real story about this narcisstic, money-hungry, selfish bitch, check out LSY, ex-syda and the empty wallets of thousands of devotees who thought she was a "real true guru"...geez, you must be losing it..or maybe confusing a "pretty face" with realization...hey, that's the siddha yoga way..good looks and lots of money are a sign of high spiritual attainment! lol!

a former dupe

 
At 7/12/2006 8:36 AM, Blogger CHUCK said...

Dear Jody,

I think it's time you got yourelf a girl friend! You seem to be suffering from blue ball syndrome and it's affecting your judgement.

 
At 7/12/2006 9:01 AM, Blogger jody said...

Damn, people!

I'm not purporting to be any kind of expert on Gurumayi, and I readily admit I'm spinning her withdrawal from her scene as hopefully as I can.

I don't doubt that she was caught up in all the hoopla she spun for herself over the years. But perhaps she saw through that. Maybe she realized what a mistake it all was. She may have come to see that it really wasn't doing anyone any good.

I wonder what scandal they're trying to dodge this time.

I suppose it's possible that she's just ducking another controversy. And perhaps she shut it down because she didn't need any more money. I don't know either way. But I do know someone close to her who never got involved in the hoopla, and they revealed that Gurumayi was tired of the hoopla as well and so she shut it down. If that's indeed the case, maybe y'all need to re-examine the situation. Not that she hasn't made many mistakes, not that folks haven't been ground up in the wheels of her org, just that perhaps she's recognized the error of her former ways and is now trying to put things right by taking herself out of the picture.

Or maybe she's just cutting out with the loot. I don't know, but I certainly hope that it's the former. Time will tell I suppose.

I'm sorry to disappoint you all, but seeing a big-time guru flip herself out of her own devotional mindsuck is something I want to see every big-time guru do, and I wanted to express that in a way that supported her actions.

 
At 7/12/2006 9:48 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoa, sorry, Jody, you are way off on this one, believe me, I spent 20 years with the lady in question. She has been sick of the guru role for a long time, and makes a practice of humiliating and scorning those who take devotion seriously. She's a classic narcissist, flattering, flirting, and then pulling the rug. But she still allows the org to tell the "siddhayogis" (approved lingo for devotees) that the relationship with the guru is the heart of siddha yoga, and the org is continually asking for money, money, and more money, charging for programs that were formerly free, charging more and more for shaktipat initiation (even though she has personally not attended an Intensive, the program in which the diksha is given, for several years. Now swamis or lay teachers lead the programs, giving canned talks and leading meditation sessions, and the spin is that shaktipat takes place by the will of the guru, who is actually in her digs at Fallsburg eating ice cream and dreaming of life in northern California. She used to give a message each year, but the same one has served for the past three, and they have been milking that talk for profits since then, offering three or five day retreats for over $1000 where participants contemplate a few lines of the talk, selling a new "study guide" which reads like clif notes each year, even selling adjectives for 17$ a month (check it out, the "attribute" of the day, you can subscribe online). It's a joke, a travesty of a path. Don't let her good looks fool you, like another poster said, seems like your sex drive has undermined your scepticism. Check out the exSY yahoo group, the archives there are full of tales of abuse and coverup, not just those old scandals.

 
At 7/12/2006 11:21 AM, Anonymous another disgusted ex-devotee said...

you're joking, right? she's tired of SY's "trendiness"? exactly what kind of a rock have you been living under? SY hasn't been "trendy" since lis harris's article came out in the new yorker in .. november 1994. that's almost 12 years ago in case you don't have enough fingers to count that on. SY has in fact been collapsing and losing members in droves since then.

and it's just what we all want in a true guru -- "hot." a guru is supposed to offer, at the least, guidance in spiritual life. gurumaya hasn't even issued a talk of any kind since new years 2004. with that kind of leadership, who needs a guru at all?

 
At 7/12/2006 12:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's hilarious that gurumayi is "sick of the trendiness of siddha yoga" since she, herself, is the one who made it that way! Would it be too much to hope that Malti has finally grown up? Probably! My guess is that she's just getting sick of the restricted wardrobe of "the guru"....all that orange! "I mean, like, how many varieties within the approved color family can we find? there's like orange, there's like red, and like peach, also like apricot...god! so boring!" like, "I've changed my hairstyle so many times and I'm still bored!" and where is that durgananda! I'm like running out of things to say! and,damn, now my brother doesn't even like want the ashram up in Fallsburg! now he's a big deal in india and I'm like totally disrespected. Like..where are all my swamis?? and what happened to that CEO I used to like torturning so much? this is SOOOOOOO boring! Like, I'm outta here!"

someone who stayed in syda for far too many years to buy the latest spin!

 
At 7/12/2006 12:52 PM, Blogger jody said...

A reader named Ron gave me permission to post a letter he sent to the tips@guruphiliac.org email address:
*****

I'm sure you've received a lot of feedback on your latest Chid analysis! Not a former SYDA follower but I've had a lot of contact with this movement over nearly thirty years and formed certain opinions.

You should be aware that the sexual allegations against Muktananda include child abuse (teens and younger). Chid herself allegedly used knowledge of Muk's transgressions to blackmail him into appointing her co-successor with her brother (Nityananda junior was originally appointed by Muk to be his sole successor). While the official reason for Chid going after Nit junior was his sexual activity (with of age women), many think the real reason was her desire to run the organization exclusively. Supporting this perspective is the fact that for years Chid herself had a fairly open relationship with an unsavory leader of her movement.

Many feel the latest orientation you applaud has more to do with personal burnout and preference than anything else. These folks believe she is living the life of globetrotting vacationing and shopping. Her campaign (legal and harassment) against her brother continued (and he claims continues) well after his abdication resulting in her estrangement from their parents whose death she didn't acknowledge. Her recent trip to India was said to include work on the latest legal attack on her brother's movement.

To sum up, and I share this perspective, many see Chid as a cruel and somewhat disturbed woman who is a spiritual leader in name only. I think she has calculated that the current orientation is the proverbial win / win situation. She gets to live the lifestyle she relishes and by flying under the radar covers up not only that lifestyle but her dwindling followers (thousands not millions) and the scandals that have plagued her movement.

I would agree that an unintended side effect of her decision has been to decrease (but not eliminate) the cult of personality around her person which is a good thing.

Finally you must know that having friends who have a certain perspective does not mean that their perspective is objective or true. Otherwise normal and intelligent people have been known to believe and accept the darndest things. You must also know that a wealth of information exists on the net that you can use to form your own opinion on Chid and SYDA and the latest twists and turns.

 
At 7/12/2006 4:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am a eX siddha yoga person, and you sir are out of your mind if you think malti is the real thing! thats what gurumayi's real name was or maybe you didn't know that! Shes as much of a fraud as muktananda was if not more so. It's sad indeed to still hear and see people who think she is the real deal. its all BS. I new Muktananda, and many of his swami's, as well as Malti. I also new Amma very well. your concultions are very wrong. Time for you to take off those rose colored glasses from the 70's and 80's and see what really is! Shes a conartist. Narayan

 
At 7/12/2006 5:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Jody

Maybe you should create a file titled "Jody's Dick Does the Talking" :))) (....well, your probably not the first guy.....)

Oh God, when I read what you had posted on your blog regarding Gurumayi/Chidvilasananda/Malti my first impulse was that she had certainly captured YOUR imagination.

I have known Siddha Yoga for around 30 years and was personally involved in Siddha Yoga for around 8 years (doing non-stop slave labour for most of it), and for two of those years I was touring with Muktananda when ALL the scandalous activity was rampant & happening around me & to me & it has taken years to piece together what was really going on so traumatised was I - (Muktananda was indulging in covert sexual abuse of women & under-age girls, intimidation/standover tactics, manipulations, lies deceits ect). And for ALL those reasons I call him Fucktananda. He fucked with bodies, minds and souls.

And he very nearly fucked up the Siddha Yoga Organisation. So his death in 1982 in Ganeshpuri was act of fate that maybe preserved Siddha Yoga somewhat ....well, preserved it for the benefit of Gurumayi and her assumed lover at the time, George Afif. (I don't think Gurumayi has been the only person who has benefited from all the tax-free profits)

...............OK....I haven't got time right now to outline how deeply corrupt I speculate Siddha Yoga is........... (....including the extended family of various off-shoot groups with their own self proclaimed enlightened swami-gurus)......... but I think the magic words to some of this mystery are tax exempt status, swiss bank accounts, powerful networking ability, secrecy, and a total abnegation of ethics & morals (except as a hypocritical posturing to control the flock). That, and the mystical power to manipulate and the magical ability to act duplicitously.

Other stuff I have heard over the years (from reliable sources close to the scene) is that Siddha Yoga was originally seeded by large donations from (ex?) drug dealers. And was originally run by a lawyer, Ron Friedland, who was rumoured to done legal work for the mafia at some time ( he died about a year before Muktananda). Scary scary scary stuff.

And THAT famous book of Muktananda's - "Play of Consciousness" - from what I understand it was made up and written by someone else!

 
At 7/12/2006 7:03 PM, Blogger jody said...

Maybe you should create a file titled "Jody's Dick Does the Talking" :)))

In defense of my dick, I have two people who I know relatively well who are both close to Gurumayi. One ran a SYDA center and the other has communicated with GM recently.

Based on my appraisal of these folks, I'm inclined to believe that perhaps GM isn't as bad as y'all say. Granted, this is coming from some of her closer devotees with their inherent bias. But I've got to weigh the testimony of friends I know to be good people over all those who feel hurt and/or ripped off by SYDA.

I'm not saying you aren't all correct, I'm saying I have information that indicates to me that maybe she isn't all bad. Then there is the fact that she pulled the plug, which is what got me excited in the first place.

I've said it a bunch: really bad gurus can work great for good people who are sincere. So perhaps this is the case with my friends, that their sincerity carried them past the flaws and troubles of their guru. But I don't know that for certain. What I know is that a person who promoted themselves or allowed themselves to be promoted as divine has suddenly changed tact. That is what I am reporting and that's why I've decided that perhaps Gurumayi is genuine.

If I come by better information (outside that of the ex-devotee block), I'll report those findings and dine on my own somewhat smelly feet. Until then, I'll stand by what I wrote and give you all a great excuse to come here and tell me how and why I am wrong. Everyone wins in that scenario.

 
At 7/12/2006 9:27 PM, Blogger ontheotherhand said...

Jody,

I can also tell you of dozens and dozens of people I know better than relatively well who will tell you that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is not as bad as I say (or as bad as many others who have been burned say), but that's because they are brainwashed idiots, unable to leave because they gave everything up for him and have nowhere to go anymore. Plus, they love the suffering. Perhaps the same is true for your acquaintances.

Until a person has left such a cult, how can you expect them to be objective? How can you take their opinions into consideration at all, when so many from Syda have suffered? I never met Gurumayi, but I can't believe you'd listen to two people you happen to know, who are still following her around for whatever reasons, over people who have had terrible anguish at her hands. If she hurt all of those people, she's a dumb, greedy woman, and not the least spiritual in my view. So what if she is cute? Lots of bimbos are cute. Doesn't mean they are great gurus.

Can't argue with all the evidence imo.

 
At 7/12/2006 9:48 PM, Blogger jody said...

Can't argue with all the evidence imo.

Much of that "evidence" is colored by feelings of betrayal and rejection. Folks feel wronged and want to do some damage.

And they are all welcome to come here to counter my apparently pro-Gurumayi stance. The fact that she pulled the plug is very significant, and it may indicate a major sea-change in her thinking. If that's the case, it's a very good sign about her, imo.

I'm not saying Gurumayi is perfect. I'm sure there's a lot of truth in the depictions of the exes. But can't she grow and see the error of her ways? Is she that reviled that folks find her unredeemable?

I'm going to hope for the best and take her move to be a sign she's improved. Call me an idiot for it, but until I hear about any recent foibles, I'm going to let her past be the past and wait to see what the future brings of Gurumayi.

 
At 7/12/2006 10:00 PM, Anonymous Boro Mitrovitch said...

Jody, I've been reading your blog with interest for about half a year. This time I know a lot about the Guru you are talking about. You really ought to know much more about this topic than you do. Your post is gossipy blather. You are just making this crap up as you type. If you are struggling to find something to write about, better to just not post until you have something of value to say.

 
At 7/13/2006 1:11 AM, Blogger cjl871 said...

jody said:
Can't argue with all the evidence imo.

Much of that "evidence" is colored by feelings of betrayal and rejection. Folks feel wronged and want to do some damage.

And they are all welcome to come here to counter my apparently pro-Gurumayi stance. The fact that she pulled the plug is very significant, and it may indicate a major sea-change in her thinking. If that's the case, it's a very good sign about her, imo.

I'm not saying Gurumayi is perfect. I'm sure there's a lot of truth in the depictions of the exes. But can't she grow and see the error of her ways? Is she that reviled that folks find her unredeemable?

I'm going to hope for the best and take her move to be a sign she's improved. Call me an idiot for it, but until I hear about any recent foibles, I'm going to let her past be the past and wait to see what the future brings of Gurumayi.

7/12/2006 8:48 PM

------------------


OK, Jody, I understand your stance. You have a couple of friends who still practice sy, still very devoted to its guru, both reporting with such conviction, gm's good intentions, the turning over of a new leaf, her having come clean to a point of really reversing almost everything she once craved and hid, with a vengence in the western world.

Jody, I'll meet you half way. I'll try this line of questioning and see if gm/malti makes the choice to show any one who publicly reads the Net, if she is indeed serious about this claimed new beginning, this transformation back to gsp.

Gm/Malti, these are for you, in specific. It is fully trusted that you can offer full and comprehensive responses via the syda website, for anyone (either pro or con syda/sy) to read, and offer further discussion, with possible further questioning, asking for full disclosure.

1) Please post at the earliest date possible, a complete and comprehensive listing of all syda/sy financial reports, from 1982 to present. Please include Prasad in these reports.

2) Please post at the earliest date possible, a complete record of all syda/sy and prasad tax reports.

3) Please post at the earliest date possible, a complete listing of all projects syda/sy and prasad advertised to the global community of devotees, which never saw the light of day, never saw implementation, nor construction. Please list the amounts taken in for each project (via the most generous donations from the global community of devotees). Please list where these monies went, as they obviously did not go to the syda/sy, or prasad projects.

Please place a name and address where the global community of devotees may write, to send a copy of cancelled checks written for these defunct projects, or affadavits for having provided funds for such (if cash was the form of payment). Syda/sy or prasad will, in a timely manner, provide a full refund to anyone who is able to provide the above.

4) Please provide a comprehensive listing of all of the sexual abuse victims that muk preyed upon during his lifetime.

It is asked that syda/sy and the ex-syda/sy communities find professional mediation to help guide and direct the establishment of a mutually agreed upon financial institution in the US, which will set-up and over see, by a mutually agreed upon trustee, the creation and disbursement of funds, to establish and create and genuine outreach fund for those so agregiously abused by your successor, known by many, as swami paramahamsa muktananda.

5) It is asked that you publicly answer, if you hold knowledge that Bhagavan Nityananda, did indeed leave a lineage to Muktananda? If so, please provide for full public disclosure, proof of such a transmission.

If not, why did syda/sy perpetuate this lie for all of these decades? Why was a truthful accounting of this not readily provided to the pubic?

6) It is hereby publicly agreed upon that syda/sy, prasad in India, the US and any other part of the world (including any individual associated in an individual or group, or organization conducting business of behalf of these organizations), cease immediately and for all time in to the future, all intimidation and harassment of your brother, Nityananda Jr., within India, the US, and anywhere in the world.

8) It is hereby publicly agreed upon that syda/sy, prasad in India, the US and any other part of the world (including any individual or group, or organization associated in an individual manner conducting business of behalf of these organizations), cease immediately and for all time in to the future, all intimidation and harassment of the citizens/villagers of Ganeshpuri,India, and all surrounding areas.

9) It is hereby agreed upon that global syda/sy and prasad immediately establish a retirement fund for devotess who tirelessly gave of their lives, time and health, to help build and sustain syda/sy and prasad on a global basis. The institution to house this fund will be mutually agreed upon by syda/sy, prasad and the ex-syda/sy and prasad communities, through a mutually agreed upon mediator. A mutually agreed upon trustee will be seated, to oversee the fair and equitable distribution of funds to those who gave and gave for so many years, with no retirement net of safety from social security, or any other insurance fund, nor no medical insurance to help oversee and cover the costs of physical damages done through the long hours of seva and service to syda/sy and prasad, on a global basis, or in any local basis.

10) It is hereby asked that you, gurumayi/gm/malti, as head of the autocratic organizations known by devotees throughout the world as syda/sy and prasad, offer a full and genuine public apology for the years and years of deception, lies, manipulation, and silence, for all of the sexual abuse which you, first hand, helped to cover up and silence the victims; the lie upon lie upon lie, in regard to moral, financial, ethical, and human corruption, started by your successor muktananda, and fully followed by yourself, george afif, and other insiders who help in this complicit web of deceit and corruption.

gurymayi/gm/malti, many eyes and ears will be watching and listening for a genuine response to any of the above stated causes. The more which will be genuinely addressed, the more mileage you may gain in your claimed redemption, and turning a corner to become a genuine human being, and to re-establish gsp... which in its genuine format represents Bhagavan Nithyananda. As we all know, outside his Mahasamadi Temple in Ganeshpuri, India, now stands a very visible and readable sign, reading that the Nithyananda Trust does not hold allegance to any group or organization.

Are you genuine in voice given to this new leaf you are reported to want to turn? Your response(s) are awaited, in a timely, thorough and respectful manner.

 
At 7/13/2006 1:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jody: - "In defense of my dick, I have two people I know relatively well who are both close to Gurumayi. One ran a SYDA centre and the other has communicated with GM recently."

Me again.......

Oh God, Jody, I know a whole bunch of people who knew GM on intimate, close up terms (ie, going out to coffee & chatting to her in her bedroom - that kind of 'close'). So it has been from these people that I have heard the harsher facts about GM. The understanding I have from these people is that she is a Queen Bee and quite an immature and shallow & sometimes very bitchy cruel one at that. Unfortunately, I feel there is truth in what they have to say. (.....wish it wasn't so, but my personal feelings are that Muktananda messed her up........and she taken away from her family and she was spoilt rotten and given way too much power at an early age.........and her true desires are really quite worldly ones) From what I have heard (from reliable sources) she became a guru because she blackmailed Muktananda (taped interviews with some of Muktananda's young female targets).

My specualtion is that I think she wants out because she now has loads of (tax free and donated) wealth accumulated over the years with SYDA and that she really just wants retire and live a trouble free secluded glamourous wealthy life (who wouldn't - except if they were a real saint!)- instead of walking around in funny orange robes all the time and putting on a guru act.

I speculate that Gurumayi is merely the "front person" for the SYDA act - the 'talent', if you like, and that there is a collected posse of beneficaries standing in line underneath her, all having played their own roles in the great deception.

Though someone I know has these speculations on the matter:- SYDA is winding down its operation as fast as is legally possibly - in other words they are liquidating & possibly moving money off shore from the USA. Speculated reason for this - fear they will be sued (for a range of abuses). If there is no SYDA - there is no organisation to sue.

The most vivid personal impression I have about GM gross mistreatment of her brother - I don't know if that meets the description of "beautiful" or "saintly".

Nor do I consider grasping greed and vast deception as beautiful or saintly. Or the ridiculing of hapless devotees as particularly sensitive or spiritual (....or beautiful).

I don't know if I would describe the inability to perceive obvious striking flaws in one's guru as an indication of sincerity in a spiritual seeker. I would tend to think of it as an act of total mind control/denial -or perhaps naivity/innocence - or even fear - or, possibly even,stubborness and stupidity.

Maybe your friends only get to fleetingly see GM's pleasant side & maybe don't know her - or the SYDA organisation- as well as you tend to assume.

Moreso, SYDA Mind Control can kind of mess with your thinking processes (and that is merely an understatement if ever there was one! - think about the Wild Mass Kriya Spectacle that even you witnessed ). I can remember when I was involved in SYDA it was widely promulgated that the very worst thing one could possible do was to deride or criticize the guru - we were all brainwashed into thinking that we would find ourselves in some hell region or tempt some vengeful hubris - in fact we chanted words to that effect every day during the Guru Gita (daily hour long chant). This notion had a traumatic impact on my mind because I just went around declaring my love for Muktananda even though my REAL feelings were that he was an extremely weird,sleazy and strange creepy little guy.
And that SYDA was a strange and quite nasty organisation, with dangerous oppressive feeling about it.

Then there was the promulgated notion of "Tapasaya" (suffering/burning of karmas): - even when I was being abused (physically & emotionally) by one of Muktananda's male (western) swamis, I put up with all the abuse thinking that it was -
A. my karma
B. helping me clear away my bad karma
C.that I deserved the mistreatment, being a lowly soul and all. And all the time I went around telling everyone what a wonderful and amazing person he was! (.......... until I finally woke up to the fact I was enmeshed as a victim in a heinous power game.)

Hey, Jody, what I speculate is this - I reckon you are possibly being USED by SYDA and that idealized notions about GM have been sent your way and you have just lapped the whole thing up. I say this because SYDA is reknown for using dirty tricks. So maybe they sussed you out, 'seduced' you somewhat (as being their usual tactic) - you are a MOST useful person if you are on their side, remember that! -and you've taken the bait. (.....please take no offence, just my speculation.........)

By the way, I do not have some objective in 'winning' this discussion - . I know what I know from long experience & discussions with a number of people who knew both Muktananda and Gurumayi closely & a whole bunch of SYDA's dirty secrets. I consider it a responsibility that the darker history of SYDA is out there for people to know - believe me, information that SYDA is a sophisticated SCAM could be a genuine life-saver/mind-saver/soul-saver for some people.

That is why I get a little pissed (no offence intended) with your pro-Gurumayi "puff piece" - especially since many regard you as an intelligent & informed & insightful guru-buster.

God, I don't care if you think GM is one hot babe! but I do care if your GM promotion/recommendation leads some innocent to become entrapped in SYDA and ultimately converted into a mad, blinkered devotee who is happy to hand over all their money and time -their whole LIFE - 'smilingly' - to (in my opinion)a cunning bunch of manipulators.

Miss Annabella

 
At 7/13/2006 6:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: Evidence

Whoa, I'm on a roll..................

Jody, I understand that your particular outlook is coloured by your friendships with two probably very nice, honest, decent people who are devotees of Gurumayi.

I also knew lots of nice,decent, honest and kind people when I was involved in SYDA. I think a few of them a most likely still involved, and, to my way of thinking, in deep denial to all the crap that has happened connected to SYDA.

In regards to myself, I was fortunate to eventually speak with a number of people, ex-devotees, who had had 'inside information' and direct experiences and/or who had witnessed defining events. Fortunate, because this information woke me up.......finally. This information was beyond valuable and enabled me to deprogram myself from a whole mindset I had embraced willingly (and most likely unconsciously) during my involvement with SYDA and regain a personal sense of autonomy.

I had become involved with SYDA when I was quite young and in my innocence and unworldliness had no intellectual ability to contradict or question SYDA/Muktananda's projected authority and universal world view. I had a deep spiritual longing at the time and I found the notions of selfless service, love and respect for all beings, chanting the names of god, ect, all particually appealling. In hindsight I wonder whether my spiritual inclinations were being totally manipulated.

I speak out because there has been a seemingly phenomonal effort on behalf of SYDA to SILENCE problematic criticism and to SILENCE revelations that may reveal its not-so-spiritual history and/or neglect the damaging effects participation in SYDA may have had upon a number of innocent people.

Finally, I hope you ARE right about the reasons behind Gurumayi's 'sea-change'.....................although it does seem intriguing that a pro-GM 'plug' appears here on your guru-busting blog just when more behind-the-scenes SYDA revelations are just starting to unfold elsewhere on the net................

Ah, to be cynical or not to be cynical.........what a conundrum.

Anyway, thanks Jody for allowing an open discussion about all this to take place here on your blog.

Miss Annabella

 
At 7/13/2006 7:49 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You must be totally fucked up. Gurumayi is not so bad because your freind thinks she's okay? What about the fact that to get initiation you have to pay hundreds of dollars for an "intensive" which half of the time she only shows up for on a tv screen. I also get letters from her organization all the time telling me if I want the Guru's Grace I should give money and i am not now and never have been a devotee. I noticed your postings on Kaleshwar are also removed . Due t a relationship with a new freind? Yet you go on impugning people like ammachi who are actually working hard 24-7 for free. you're a mess.

 
At 7/13/2006 8:59 AM, Blogger jody said...

it does seem intriguing that a pro-GM 'plug' appears here on your guru-busting blog just when more behind-the-scenes SYDA revelations are just starting to unfold elsewhere on the net

That's purely coincidental. This isn't a front for anything other than my personal opinions.

If there's more "revelations" I should know about, send them along. I'm not saying that I'm right about GM, I'm speculating and hoping she's seen the error of her ways. If you have evidence that refutes that, please let me know about it.

 
At 7/13/2006 9:04 AM, Blogger jody said...

I reckon you are possibly being USED by SYDA and that idealized notions about GM have been sent your way and you have just lapped the whole thing up.

Now that's a conspiracy theory.

I've talked to one of my friends recently, that's where I got the pull quote for the article. The other I haven't spoke to in over 5 years.

This isn't SYDA using Jody. This is Jody hoping that a big-time guru has recognized the problems inherent in the phenomenon and as a result has stepped back from the practice.

I get the feeling y'all feel she's skating with the loot. That may be possible. I acknowledge that possibility. If anyone has any evidence of that, I'll post it too.

 
At 7/13/2006 9:05 AM, Blogger jody said...

You are just making this crap up as you type.

Er... yeah. That's pretty much what I've been doing the whole time.

 
At 7/13/2006 3:41 PM, Anonymous cocreator108 said...

Jody said:
What I know is that a person who promoted themselves or allowed themselves to be promoted as divine has suddenly changed tact.

All I can say is, take a look at the siddha yoga website and it STILL says:
"A Siddha Guru is a spiritual teacher, a master, whose identification with the supreme Self is uninterrupted. The unique and rare quality of a Siddha Guru is his or her capacity to awaken the spiritual energy or kundalini in seekers through shaktipat ...
Gurumayi Chidvilasananda is a Siddha Guru."
Jody, does this not sound like somebody who's being promoted as divine?!

 
At 7/13/2006 3:55 PM, Blogger jody said...

Jody, does this not sound like somebody who's being promoted as divine?!

Not really, although it does sound like they are purporting to have magic powers, which is another big bugaboo of mine.

 
At 7/13/2006 4:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The real reason she has withdrawn from the Guru racket is that it was cutting into her shopping time.

 
At 7/13/2006 4:50 PM, Blogger jody said...

The real reason she has withdrawn from the Guru racket is that it was cutting into her shopping time.

Yes, that seems to be a theme with the exes. If someone comes up with something a bit more solid, I'll create another post around it.

 
At 7/13/2006 5:37 PM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

ANONYMOUS SAID: She has been sick of the guru role for a long time, and makes a practice of humiliating and scorning those who take devotion seriously.

That's news to me. I've been a devotee for a long time...she's talked to me person to person on several occassions, and all I did was walk up to her. She called off her security guards when she saw me coming. I have a pure heart, and she knows that. I'm surrently disabled and recently sent her a letter; she responded...and I DON'T give dakshina (money to the ahsram) and I have never lived there.

Someone else said that Sally Kempton is scandalous: Sally is one of my best friends and I don't know where YOU ALL are getting your information from.

ANOTHER ANONYMOUS PERSON SAID: gurumaya hasn't even issued a talk of any kind since new years 2004. with that kind of leadership, who needs a guru at all?

Perhaps if you realized that Gurumayi's actual message is that it's not the PHYSICAL Guru who transforms you spiritually, but the Self inside, than you would understand why Gurumayi has pulled herself out of the spotlight.

And, BTW, I know Baba's personal dentist from the 60's and seventies. He always tells of the story of how one day he was working on Baba's teeth and Malti (Gurumayi) was standing in the background (as she was Baba's assistant and translator at the time). He told me that one time Baba kept saying to him: "You are SO STUPID! You are SO STUPID!" The poor dentist said, "O, Baba, what have I done?" Baba replied, "You are standing in the same room as this woman who is going to carry my torch and illumine the world, and you don't even know it." I will not tell you the dentist's name, because he is still alive. But anyone who has ever spent any time in the ashram will know him as the elderly man who repeats "Ram, Ram" all day long.
Baba never intended for Swami Nityananda (Gurumayi's brother) to be a co-guru. That's ridiculous. And, quite frankly, Nityananda was screwing his secretary and buyin expensive cars with the SYDA money. He proved himself as being an unfit spiritual teacher.

JODY, I HAVE NO IDEA WHY YOU PRINTED A PRO-GURUMAYI PIECE ON THIS BLOG, WHEN YOU KNOW THAT THE PEOPLE WHO READ YOUR BLOG ARE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISAPPOINTED OR DISILLUSSIONED FROM THE 'GURUS' THEY HAVE GONE TO. AND MANY OF THEM ARE FAKE. BUT, AS YOUR FRIEND, I SAY, BOTTOMS UP! MORE POWER TO YOU. I THINK YOU KNOW YOU WERE GOING TO GET THIS RESPONSE. I THINK YOU ALSO KNOW THAT GURUMAYI PERSONALLY TAUGHT ME THAT WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR WAS WITHIN ME THE WHOLE TIME. SHE IS NOT TO BE THE FOCUS...AT BEST, A SPIRITUAL TEACHER IS A GUIDE, AND USUALLY, THE EFFECTIVE ONES WILL INSULT YOU IN ORDER TO CRACK YOUR LIMITED EGO.

YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND ON THE PATH.
GURUMAYI IS A REFLECTION OF MY GREAT SELF, AND HAS NEVER PRETENDED TO BE ANYTHING ELSE. WHATEVER YOU BRING TO HER, SHE REFLECTS BACK TO YOU.

PERHAPS YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR READERS HAPPY AND KEEP SLINGING THE MUD AROUND THE GURUDOME. I AGREE 100% THAT IT WILL DO PEOPLE ON THE SPIRITUAL PATH A HELL OF A LOT OF GOOD IF THEY STOP EXPECTING GURU'S TO BE EXALTED, AND REALIZE THAT THEY (YOUR READERS) ARE ALREADY EXHALTED AND ALREADY CONTAIN THAT WHICH THEY ARE SEARCHING FOR.

WITH ALL GREAT BLESSINGS,
BHAKTI


PS Why did you put yourself in this position? You had to know that all of the Leaving Siddha Yoga people were going to take the bait. ???

 
At 7/13/2006 7:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've always admired what you have done Jody but really you have pulled a 'Dan Rather' on this one. You've been suckered. The reality is that you have been 'charmed'. That is what they all do so well.

As a 'dedicated ex'er' one question comes to mind.

If she has really withdrawn why is she still trying to get everyone's money? I could send you the latest pitch if you'd like.

That is what SY/GM have become.

At least Ammachi hugs you while she picks your pocket.

SY current philosophy is you don't deserve any 'teachings' but we deserve your $$$.

 
At 7/13/2006 7:27 PM, Blogger jody said...

The reality is that you have been 'charmed'.

But not by them. It's by my fervent hope that a big-time guru can see the light about occlusion. Maybe GM hasn't, but I'm hoping she will.

If she has really withdrawn why is she still trying to get everyone's money? I could send you the latest pitch if you'd like.

But aren't the centers their own entities now? It appears to me that she's letting them use her name and teaching, but she's not involved beyond that.

At least Ammachi hugs you while she picks your pocket.

And she's very subtle about it, too. As much as I loathe the circus around Amma, she is by far the number 1 devi in my book.

SY current philosophy is you don't deserve any 'teachings' but we deserve your $$$.

It's a business. Like every single other practice out there, the efficacy is in the application. That's what keeps a big-time guru in business, real or not. It's the faith of the devotee that makes the guru great, not any special powers of realization they are believed to have.

 
At 7/13/2006 11:19 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Bhakti wrote:

Someone else said that Sally Kempton is scandalous: Sally is one of my best friends and I don't know where YOU ALL are getting your information from.

-------------

For someone who claims to be one of Sally Kempton's best friends, your awareness of her complicity in helping to cover up muk's sexual abuse, and the other corruption and abuse of syda and its leadership reads as a complete miss.

Possibly if Ms. Kempton ever makes the choice to really inform you of muk's sexual predation, from females of adult age to the age of children, then you will have more of an idea if you consider someone who would help to carry on such silence over these matters, as someone you wish to call one of your best friends.


Bhakti wrote:
ANOTHER ANONYMOUS PERSON SAID: gurumaya hasn't even issued a talk of any kind since new years 2004. with that kind of leadership, who needs a guru at all?

Perhaps if you realized that Gurumayi's actual message is that it's not the PHYSICAL Guru who transforms you spiritually, but the Self inside, than you would understand why Gurumayi has pulled herself out of the spotlight.

---------------

Dear Bhakti,

SY speak 101. Of course this is the reasoning floating around devotee circles as to why gm stopped issuing New Year's messages. Possibly your dear friend Ms. Kempton would care to add to one of your discussions, how she wrote a series of talks for gm, which constituted the New Year's messages; and when all used up and gone through, Sally hung up her robes and walked out the doors of sma, and gm hasn't issued a talk since. NO more pre-written material to call upon.

Has it ever occurred to you that gm did not write these messages? That she had ghost writers? Of course, a best friend like Sally, should share such relevant details with close friends. Isn't friendship based on truth?


Bhakti wrote:

And, BTW, I know Baba's personal dentist from the 60's and seventies. He always tells of the story of how one day he was working on Baba's teeth and Malti (Gurumayi) was standing in the background (as she was Baba's assistant and translator at the time). He told me that one time Baba kept saying to him: "You are SO STUPID! You are SO STUPID!" The poor dentist said, "O, Baba, what have I done?" Baba replied, "You are standing in the same room as this woman who is going to carry my torch and illumine the world, and you don't even know it."

-------------------------

Well, Bhakti, she did indeed carry on the legacy of muk, she indeed did continue to illumine the world in his tradition. She certainly kept filling the Swiss bank accounts, she kept riding in expersive European cars, she dressed in silken robes, she loved gold, she part, parcel and wholly continued to manipulate the sexual abuse victims of muk into silence. To one such victim saying: "Sssshhhh, remember it's a secret". To another: "Don't tell your mother." Yes, indeed, she was perfect to carry on the muk legacy.


Bhakti wrote:

Baba never intended for Swami Nityananda (Gurumayi's brother) to be a co-guru. That's ridiculous.

----------------

If you ever hold an interest in actual events and their sequence of events, I offer them here for you to consider.

1) Muk first announced that Jr. would be his sole successor. There was an actual ceremony held where Jr. was installed.

2) Malti threw a fit (genuine anger and rage) at being left out of the equation. People who were present have reported that gm and george afif took tape recorded messages in gsp, of the females whom muk had sexually abused. They used this recorded material to blackmail gm's way onto the side-by-side throne with her brother.

A second ceremony was then held, where they were both installed together.

Many have asked the wisdom of believing in muk's claimed perfection, by simple example of how the violence and corruption of this dual has played itself out.


Bhakti wrote:

And, quite frankly, Nityananda was screwing his secretary and buyin expensive cars with the SYDA money. He proved himself as being an unfit spiritual teacher.

----------------------

Please, tell us what muk's screwing countless women, moving to teens and ending with children proved? Did it prove him also as an "unfit spiritual teacher"?

People present report Malti spent the night with George Afif, the night before she went through the ceremony with muk, to be installed as co-successor. Does this prove her as an "unfit spiritual teacher"?

Gm knew of the sexual predation of muk and george afif, yet has helped to keep both publicly silent for all of these years. Does this prove her as an "unfit spiritual teacher"?

Bhakti, you may still be SO deeply involved within the land of sy, that you cannot hear what is being offered to you here, in any genuine capacity. This is understood. For so many who finally woke it, it took years for enough information to filter through to help shake the consciousness back into thinking gear.

The best of luck with your life choices.

 
At 7/14/2006 2:50 AM, Anonymous Kumuda said...

Om Guru Om

Hey! Did a blog search on Gurumayi, and here are the ex-Siddha Yoga drama queens ;) Where have you been?

Thank you Jody for following your intuition and common sense and looking at actual events instead of the mixture of truth, half-truth, false truths, and kooky misspelled accusations that some of the “angry ashram divorcees” like to expound. Right, Cj, like Gurumayi is going to answer any of your silly questions.

Of course any person, place, thing, or especially spiritual group is going to have some flaws – it is the nature of this world. Nevertheless, Siddha yogis do have their own style of misbehaving and mistreating others. Gurumayi has requested better behavior in many ways over the years, yet many of the smiling faces that line the halls to see and be seen by her, turn into ugly faces after she walks by. Some of the people who are so rude and disrespectful to their former guru now are the same ones who used to be rude and disrespectful to their fellow devotees.

Many devotees seem to see Gurumayi using a tough stance with one of her disciples or devotees and think that justifies their acting that way with others – as though Muktananda’s line that he doesn’t have to work on each of his devotees because they all work on each other gives them permission to be rude, disrespectful, and harmful to their fellow brothers and sisters on the path.

As much as I miss seeing, hearing, and being with her in form, I believe that Gurumayi is doing a great thing by stepping back, and I think it has been a long time coming. It is often the devotee’s projections on her and desires about her that make them act like they’re in third world countries desperate for food -- an analogy I heard Gurumayi use once during a chanting dance around the ashram, when people were pushing and shoving to get closer to her. “Are you in a third world country and you need to get food? Is that why you have to push?”

I’ve experienced fairly intense misbehavior from devotees, especially in recent years, and the more good works I’ve offered into the world during some very challenging times, the more hateful some of the local Siddha yoga committee members here in San Diego would behave toward me, until I finally had to stop going even for the Sunday morning Guru Gitas that I'd loved so much. Of course I’m not the only one experiencing such things. Gurumayi has spoken of the many letters she receives from devotees complaining about each other. Here you have a sadguru, and all you have to offer or discuss is complaints. Not to say I haven’t given my own two cents into the mix.

I think that, as Gurumayi has said many times in recent years, our begging bowls are full. We’ve been given what we came for, and it is now our job to digest and experience, nurture, and share the blessed fruit of spiritual wisdom that we've received at our own pace and in our own ways. However, many people want kindergarten yoga, and that’s pretty much what they’ve been getting in recent years.

If you spend years loving, serving, studying, feeling, receiving, and giving your time, energy, and effort to following a spiritual path, who is it hurting when you say it is a total sham? Why not look realistically at the benefits, which many of us feel were and are great, as well as the flaws?

Best wishes,
Kumuda

 
At 7/14/2006 7:39 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jody,

The first mistake you did is to listen to your friends and judge a guru. The second mistake is you are still defending your point.

I'm wondering what would be your stance on Sri Sri if you had 2 pro-Sri Sri friends.

You just made me rethink all your posts. I will not be visiting your blog anymore. Thanks for enlightning me with your ignorance.

 
At 7/14/2006 8:37 AM, Blogger jody said...

I will not be visiting your blog anymore.

Don't let the door hit your ass.

 
At 7/14/2006 9:09 AM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Kumunda wrote:

Hey! Did a blog search on Gurumayi, and here are the ex-Siddha Yoga drama queens ;) Where have you been?

-----------------

Bravo to you, Kumunda. You've got some of the sy personal slurs down pat. Your studies with sy and its leadership have paid off for you.


Kumunda wrote:

looking at actual events instead of the mixture of truth, half-truth, false truths, and kooky misspelled accusations that some of the “angry ashram divorcees” like to expound.

-------------------

Projection is another sy trait you seem to have mastered -- the claimed ability you seem to publicly display here as to "angry ashram divorcees".

How much time have you spent genuinely doing any research outside the sy box on these matters? What sources have you used, if you've ever made the choice to any serious research?


Kumunda wrote:

Right, Cj, like Gurumayi is going to answer any of your silly questions.

------------------

Actually, Kumunda, I'd be absolutely shocked if she did. I don't think she's changed a bit. I believe the new syda storyline is but yet another of its twists and turns, as it continues to downsize, sell off properties, belongings, etc., dismiss staff. Malti wants to exit stage left, and from some who were close enough to know and had the integrity to come forward to share, the plan has been in place for quite a few years. The ending of the New Year's messages is not a newly implemented revelation (over the past few years). Planning, planning, planning...


Kumunda wrote:

Some of the people who are so rude and disrespectful to their former guru now are the same ones who used to be rude and disrespectful to their fellow devotees.

-----------------

Possibly some had finally had it with the abuse and mistreatment they experienced? Others were very respectful and devoted devotees, and one day the critical mass of evidence could finally not keep them within the rank and file any longer. They voted with their feet and left. There are a lot of reasons why people have left sy over the years.

It's of interest that you mention the word "rude". Is this a word that would even come close to describing leadership and 'claimed' enlightened ones who have manipulated, silenced and covered up so much corruption and abuse over the years? Hmmmm, "rude", I wonder if it comes close?


Kumunda wrote:

Many devotees seem to see Gurumayi using a tough stance with one of her disciples or devotees and think that justifies their acting that way with others– as though Muktananda’s line that he doesn’t have to work on each of his devotees

-------------------------

Beautiful sy speak, Kumunda. You've also got this down pat, bravo to you.


Kumunda wrote:

Here you have a sadguru, and all you have to offer or discuss is complaints. Not to say I haven’t given my own two cents into the mix.

I think that, as Gurumayi has said many times in recent years, our begging bowls are full. We’ve been given what we came for, and it is now our job to digest and experience, nurture, and share the blessed fruit of spiritual wisdom that we've received at our own pace and in our own ways.

-----------------

It was a brilliant exit speech wasn't it? She wanted out, many who spent years very close to her over the years have again and again reported on how she loves to humiliate those around her. Great job, she got to do both in that one day. If that's what floats her boat, it must have floated well for a few months after that performance.


Kumunda wrote:

If you spend years loving, serving, studying, feeling, receiving, and giving your time, energy, and effort to following a spiritual path, who is it hurting when you say it is a total sham? Why not look realistically at the benefits, which many of us feel were and are great, as well as the flaws?

Best wishes,
Kumuda

------------------

If you ever take the time to genuinely do research on what people who have left sy have said over the years, and continue to come forward to share, you will see that there is ample discussion on what people gained and what people left behind. The gain may have come, for some, in most unexpected forms upon discovering the truths they did, but with time, they've come to see it.


Best of luck with your life choices

 
At 7/14/2006 12:45 PM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

cjl871 wrote to me:
The best of luck with your life choices.

Your offering of this statement absent of any form of love and compassion means about as much to me as the hair on Jody's dog's ass.
Why waste your time ending an agressive rebuttle commentary on my comment with this hollowness?
Waste of time, and energy. It's just like when people tell me that being gay is my 'like choice'...as if. My journey is my journey...nothing more, nothing less.

Having said that, if you'd like to keep your anger, condensation, and hatred towards me alive and kicking your ass, please continue to rebuttle my comments; but realize that I don't care what you think of me, because you don't know me, other than as a reflection of your self.

This is just drama. You can kick up the dirt all you want, but you'll only be dirtying yourself.

Have fun.

PS JODY--the 'hair on Jody's dog's ass' was made in your honor. How is your dog's ass, by the way??? ;)

 
At 7/14/2006 1:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bhakti : "Baba never intended for Swami Nityananda (Gurumayi's brother) to be co-guru. That's ridiculous."



Hi Bhakti,

Who told you that complete fabrication, honey? because you should know you have been spun an utter deception.

No surprises there!

OK, Bhakti, to put this information straight:-

I was there 25 years ago (Tour 1981, Santa Monica) when Muktananda announced young Subash (Swami Nityananda) as his SOLE successor. A brahmin priest was brought over from India and a ceremony was held in Santa Monica to initiate Subash and a few other devotees into sannyas. (I can remember a fire ceremony being held in the basement of the old somewhat crapped-out Santa Monica motel were we were all sequestered in a sort of make-shift ashram).

Fast forward to Ganeshpuri 1982 (about 8 months later, because that's when I first heard the news), and the position of successor was now being rumoured to include Malti (GM) as well.

Then the guru-successor ceremony (complete with fire ceremony and saptah and a mass sannyas ceremony, as I seem to remember - that, AND some devi-goddess ritual that involved a group of young female ashram children) was conducted sometime around May /June 1982 - I lost track of time back then, I was just doing way to much work, but the event is documented in the Siddha Path current at the time - and Muktananda had Malti ( now Swami Chidvilasananda) and Subash ( Swami Nityananda) installed as brother & sister guru co-successors.

(...........and as I am writing this I am realising what a completely insane environment I had immersed myself in at the time.................. I just accepted what was going on, mind numbed & probably silently freaked, with no inclination to question anything...............)

And then, soon after the guru co-successor ceremony - say about four months - Muktananda suddenly died, during the night, in Ganeshpuri.

Miss Annabella

 
At 7/14/2006 8:49 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Bhakti wrote:

Your offering of this statement absent of any form of love and compassion means about as much to me as the hair on Jody's dog's ass.
Why waste your time ending an agressive rebuttle commentary on my comment with this hollowness?
Waste of time, and energy. It's just like when people tell me that being gay is my 'like choice'...as if. My journey is my journey...nothing more, nothing less.

Having said that, if you'd like to keep your anger, condensation, and hatred towards me alive and kicking your ass, please continue to rebuttle my comments; but realize that I don't care what you think of me, because you don't know me, other than as a reflection of your self.

This is just drama. You can kick up the dirt all you want, but you'll only be dirtying yourself.

Have fun.

--------------------

My, oh my,

Good to have confirmation that 'sy style projection' is still alive and well... what a dynamic.

 
At 7/15/2006 3:08 PM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

cjl871 I did not learn 'projection' talk from Siddha Yoga. As I mentioned earlier, I have never emersed myself in the hoopla; I actually felt a bit of sadness for the people who paraded around Gurumayi and yet didn't know that they already contained THAT which they were looking for. I went to Siddha Yoga with love and devotion with the intention of finding the Truth (which I was intitiated into at the age of eight by Jesus), and found the Truth within.

Please don't pretend to know who I am, or my history with Siddha Yoga.
I was definitely NOT one of those fools who went to the ashram without even knowing why they were working so hard (like anonymous described above in a comment directed towards me). I never did (or do) anything with blind faith.

And PLEASE don't call what I have just said to be 'SY style' of talking. Call it the Prashna Upanishad, Shree Shankaracharya's Direct Experience of Reality and Viveka Chudamani, the poems of my beloved Hafiz, Kabir and Rumi. Call it the direct experience of realization known only to Bhakti by Bhakti...as it is unexplainable.

Talk to Tony Parsons...who awoke during a walk in the park. If you want to blame someone for my 'projection' talk, blame Jesus. His entire mission was for us to see that we are all a reflection of each other. That we are to learn from each other. Let the first one who hasn't sinned throw the first stone. In other words, work on yourself within, rather than judging everything without.

cjl871--whoever you are, I cheated death twice: I was hit by a car nine years ago, was paralyzed for eight hours and then underwent 12 surgeries since then. In August of 2005 I had my entire neck reconstructed---a six hour surgery, in which I was pretty much told that I had a 50/50 chance of living. I now live in chronic pain with a disease called radiculopathy, yet I still see God everywhere. He throbs in every atom; he breathes us, he creates, sustains and destroys everything. I'm not talking book knowledge here, I'm talking about Bhakti's experience.

Everything is transcient...except THAT. As St. Teresa of Avila says, "God alone suffices". When you get to that point, there are no more questions, no more reasons for arguement. For, who are you fighting? God is everything, everywehere. Therefore, you are fighting yourself.


In my comment regarding your empty wishes with regard to my life choices and in pointing out that you are only making yourself angry by writing these remarks, I am offering you a choice: you can continue to stir up the pot, or you can just care less about me and let it go. It makes no difference to me. I don't normally comment on this blog because I stopped arguing about my spiritual inclinations. But since Jody was more or less prodding me to give my point of view on this post, I am participating in the commentary.

(I know you are going to say that since I quoted the great saints earlier, that you are going to say that I have 'book knowledge' and whooptie-doo. Please don't waste your time. I read these books because they bring tears to my eyes because they represent the exact Truth that I experience--which is beyond words, yet these saints and sages have found a way to describe That which is indescribable. And explain my experience since realizing that God is all.)

And that is not the end of it...it's just the beginning.

I don't know how much longer I have left to live, and I couldn't care less what you think of Siddha Yoga, Gurumayi, or Sally Kempton. And I won't even bother to tell you to stop wasting your time creating this drama (i.e. leaving comments about where I'm coming from.)

There is only ONENESS, and this is all DRAMA. This post and these comments mean nothing to me.
It is pure entertainment, but it doesn't make waves on my end.

A while ago, it used to make waves, and I used to debate with Jody until I was blue in the face. Now I see that none of this (the physical world) is real. It's all a play. It's real on a physical level, but it is all transcient, therefore, it's not real. Here today, gone tomorrow. So why worry? Seriousness is the disease of the mind.


If I may quote one of my other teachers, Ramana Maharshi, Krodha(anger) must vanish before Self-realization. It took me four years to learn to dissolve anger in meditation.

Give up searching, give up looking, give up arguing, give up taking everything so seriously. Sit with your emotions, look within, and forget about without for awhile. Why waste your anger on me?

Nothing exists in this world but God. Arjuna tried to fight the demons on the outside, and Shree Krsna taught him that in order to fight the outside, you must first conquer the inside.

Why am I babbling on? I'm finding it quite entertaining. And, it's filling up a lot of free time.


Having gone through two near-death experiences, I KNOW that "I" (Bhakti) don't exist. All that exists is loving consciousness that has decided to take form. Without any regard for pain, suffering, or anything, because underneath all of this drama is Love. That's all that exists underneath the apparent existence of this life we are leading. In the end we dissolve back into the Divine consciousness whence we came from.

Life is death.
Death is life.
My physical pain is transitory;
Yet the light within sustains my joy for living.

Fairwell my friend; this is the end.

 
At 7/15/2006 3:34 PM, Blogger jody said...

How is your dog's ass, by the way???

The dog and his ass are doing just fine.

 
At 7/15/2006 7:23 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Bhakti wrote:

In my comment regarding your empty wishes with regard to my life choices and in pointing out that you are only making yourself angry by writing these remarks, I am offering you a choice: you can continue to stir up the pot, or you can just care less about me and let it go. It makes no difference to me.

-----------------

Hi Bhakti,

Thanks for the response. And this is precisely where the 'projection' comes in. You actually have no idea if writing to you has made me angry, or not. Actually, it hasn't. However, if you've been steeped within the 'sy style smile, smile, smile' consciousness long enough, genuine adult discussion, very frank and to the point via the Net, may well seem this way.

So, if you care to ask me if I'm angry, feel free to do so. Otherwise, the 'projection' guesses are just that, guesses, nothing more.

Bhakti wrote:
I don't normally comment on this blog because I stopped arguing about my spiritual inclinations. But since Jody was more or less prodding me to give my point of view on this post, I am participating in the commentary.

------------------

Jody has opened a can of worms. This would not be the first time Jody has done such a thing via the Net, and it may not be the last time. Jody has no experience in being within sy. His surmises based upon the input of two friends (possibly you are one of them?), and posting in such a format, is his choice, as this is his site, but the outflow of commentary is only to be expected.


Bhakti wrote:

(I know you are going to say that since I quoted the great saints earlier, that you are going to say that I have 'book knowledge' and whooptie-doo. Please don't waste your time. )

And there it is again, 'projection'. I am MOST capable of speaking for myself. I don't need any guessing as to what I will say.

We actually like some of the same writings. I'm with you in this regard.

In regard to sy, its leadership, s.k. and belief of the truths as to how they have conducted themselves, as NOT told to the members of the global community, I am no longer fooled as to the depth of destruction, hurt, ending of any promise of a life with meaning to some of the children muk raped. For this, if you believe differently, we sit on very opposite sides of the fence.


Bhakti wrote:

I read these books because they bring tears to my eyes because they represent the exact Truth that I experience--which is beyond words, yet these saints and sages have found a way to describe That which is indescribable. And explain my experience since realizing that God is all.)

And that is not the end of it...it's just the beginning.

----------------------

On this, dear Bhakti, we can agree. Please do not think you are alone in arriving at these conclusions. I have had reasons in my own life to reach the same place.

It does not, however, mean that I turn my back on those who have so agregiously harmed SO many under the 'claimed' unbrella of self-realization, service to humanity and leadership. Wolves in sheeps clothing are NOT to be taken lightly. I say this for anyone who may have the eyes to see what is being shared and the ears to hear what is being said. Do NOT place yourself, nor your loved ones in harms way, by doing business with this type of con artist, of the most deceptive nature.

I have had the chance to meet some of the most amazing, seemingly everyday people, who have done some of the most remarkable work on behalf of genuine humanity, and to help lessen the cause of pain and suffering on this planet, and those trapped between here and completing the journey to the other side. The differences in how they have conducted themselves with through and through dharma, and the examples, too numerous to retell in this space, as to how 'claimed' leadership of the organization calling itself sy has conducted themselves, is off the chart in comparison.

Bhakti wrote:

I don't know how much longer I have left to live, and I couldn't care less what you think of Siddha Yoga, Gurumayi, or Sally Kempton. And I won't even bother to tell you to stop wasting your time creating this drama (i.e. leaving comments about where I'm coming from.)

-------------------

Here is the 'projection' again. The drama is not mine in its creation... it started some 75-80 years ago with a boy named Krishna, who later took the name swami muktananda. It is through the modern medium of the Net that those who make the choice to wake-up from this drama, can come together and fit all the pieces of the puzzle together (the picture muk, gm, syda/sy) would have hoped would not have come into pieceing together and focus... but, all of these years later, it has.

Did you ever attend Standford University and drive a white mustang convertible? If so, I do know you, and I know your mother, as well.


Bhakti wrote:

There is only ONENESS, and this is all DRAMA. This post and these comments mean nothing to me.
It is pure entertainment, but it doesn't make waves on my end.

A while ago, it used to make waves, and I used to debate with Jody until I was blue in the face. Now I see that none of this (the physical world) is real. It's all a play. It's real on a physical level, but it is all transcient, therefore, it's not real. Here today, gone tomorrow. So why worry? Seriousness is the disease of the mind.

-----------------------

It's a fine line, Bhakti. I can understand if your (or anyone's) physical prana is weakening and preparing to leave, where this in the space to enter.

However, I am equally aware of the space where many have been spared who knows how much longer of being in pain and suffering, by the act of genuine compassion and dharma, as has been shown by those I've known, who have indeed passed to the otherside numerous times, taking many, many with them to safety, each time.

I do not speak for you on the place you are at, but I will engage with you, when it comes to statements such as: (paraphrasing, as I don't have it in front of me, it's in the sequence of the comments on this blog), that you don't know what everyone is making waves about in regard to Sally Kempton. Sally and her coherts in roles of leadership within sy, have created quite a situation for themselves. As someone wise once said to me, life is short, even if lived to an old age on this planet. Karma will catch-up, sooner or later.

I do not believe in the 'claimed' self-realization, 'muk style' (tantric style of a dark order), and those that ardently followed him into this abyss. Life's choices are just that, choices. Groups such as sy can compromise the ability to see this and understand this, but it does not end the reality of 'free will'.

Bhakti, I will converse with you. I am willing to step outside the parameters of sy (pro or con) to do so. But please know, if you engage the subject matter of those who have 'knowingly' been a part of the deception of tremendous pain and suffering to many within that organization, I will once again engage you under that subject matter.

It is genuine when I say this:

I offer wishes of grace, peace and Godspeed for what you now face... I've stood on its doorway... Bhakti, you are not alone in seeing this picture in its wholeness.

I have NOT proofread this message for typos. The outer need for 'perfection', as sy obsesses over, left me many years ago.


Godspeed,

C

 
At 7/15/2006 7:34 PM, Anonymous bhakti said...

cjl871 wrote the following to Kumunda:
Actually, Kumunda, I'd be absolutely shocked if she did. I don't think she's changed a bit. I believe the new syda storyline is but yet another of its twists and turns, as it continues to downsize, sell off properties, belongings, etc., dismiss staff. Malti wants to exit stage left, and from some who were close enough to know and had the integrity to come forward to share, the plan has been in place for quite a few years. The ending of the New Year's messages is not a newly implemented revelation (over the past few years). Planning, planning, planning...


I knew the plan had been in place for three years before the ashram was shut down, and, as I've stated, I've never been anywhere near the inner circle! That wasn't hush hush. It was common knowledge. The only thing that was surprising was that Shree Muktananda Ashram (in South Fallsburgn, NY) is going to reopen under the same rules and guidelines as Gurudeva Siddha Peeth. Stricter rules. Less bullshit. This will weed out the 'trendies' from the true devotees.

I'm curious as to where you get your Siddha Yoga news from...and why you seem to be so interested in the SY goings on when you obviously abhor the place and the Guru.

I knew in 2002 that the Shree Muktananda Ashram was closing its doors. Why do you insist on making this news seem like it was hidden from the devotees and somehow scandalous????

Go meditate and get over yourself.
You're starting to be a tragically comic bore.

 
At 7/15/2006 8:12 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Jody,

Are you away?. I await the publication of my post/response (which will read number 40 or 41 (correction at the end of 41) to Bhakti.

Cjl871

 
At 7/15/2006 9:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't know how much longer I have left to live, and I couldn't care less what you think of Siddha Yoga, Gurumayi, or Sally Kempton. And I won't even bother to tell you to stop wasting your time creating this drama (i.e. leaving comments about where I'm coming from.)

There is only ONENESS, and this is all DRAMA. This post and these comments mean nothing to me.
It is pure entertainment, but it doesn't make waves on my end.

A while ago, it used to make waves, and I used to debate with Jody until I was blue in the face. Now I see that none of this (the physical world) is real. It's all a play. It's real on a physical level, but it is all transcient, therefore, it's not real. Here today, gone tomorrow. So why worry? Seriousness is the disease of the mind.


If I may quote one of my other teachers, Ramana Maharshi, Krodha(anger) must vanish before Self-realization. It took me four years to learn to dissolve anger in meditation.

Give up searching, give up looking, give up arguing, give up taking everything so seriously. Sit with your emotions, look within, and forget about without for awhile. Why waste your anger on me?

Nothing exists in this world but God. Arjuna tried to fight the demons on the outside, and Shree Krsna taught him that in order to fight the outside, you must first conquer the inside.

Why am I babbling on? I'm finding it quite entertaining. And, it's filling up a lot of free time.


Having gone through two near-death experiences, I KNOW that "I" (Bhakti) don't exist. All that exists is loving consciousness that has decided to take form. Without any regard for pain, suffering, or anything, because underneath all of this drama is Love. That's all that exists underneath the apparent existence of this life we are leading. In the end we dissolve back into the Divine consciousness whence we came from.

Life is death.
Death is life.
My physical pain is transitory;
Yet the light within sustains my joy for living.

Fairwell my friend; this is the end.

7/15/2006 2:08 PM

You know, I have to say Bhakti, that you have so little self-awareness that it's mind-boggling. You claim to have learned to meditate your way out of anger but every one of your posts is imbued with the worst kind of anger and judgement. You claim the greatest teachers and poets as your mentors and yet you totally disregard their teachings. You claim to be beyond the person "Bhakti" and yet you play every single self-pity card in your particular incarnational "story"...gayness, life and death injury, how long you may or may not have to live etc. etc. I feel alot of compassion for your obvious suffering... but not the suffering of the accidents or physical things you describe (in actuality, you have no knowlege of what others may have suffered but simply assume that "your" suffering is worth telling us all about as a kind of badge of honor, absolving you from criticism). The suffering I have compassion for is your complete misunderstanding of the teachings and teachers you quote and your pitifully misplaced loyalties. If it's true, as you say, that you "dont know how much longer you have to live" (which is pretty much the case for everyone in the world), I pray that you will wake up before you leave the body and realize that the only loyalty you need to have is to the Self.
a former syda devotee and
continuing lover of the Self.

 
At 7/15/2006 10:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Bhakti

(...........I am interjecting into a conversation you are having with someone else, however...........)

With empathy for your predicament, I also have experienced a long duration of physical suffering in the past, illness, shock, fear, and the near death experience (.....which was actually quite an immense release.....).......and I know how extremely difficult each moment of life can be at times when one is suffering intense pain and discomfort.............

My thoughts on this are:- if you are getting a sense of profound refuge and inner strength with the teachings and with your involvement with Siddha Yoga you should remain where you feel safe and happiest. Being involved in discussions that contest and conflict ones deep felt belief system are probably not a productive activity for anyone when they are suffering, especially when the belief system offers an essential relief.

My only advice:- don't give them any money. You need all the physical security you can muster when your body is not in the greatest shape. If they are being true to you they won't demand or accept any (or excessive) financial renummeration from you for your participation in their activities. They should honour your situation and recognise your difficulties with compassion. And if GM is doing just that, well, that's one good thing she has done.

Bhakti, I sincerely hope your physical situation is healing and is not too difficult to cope with. Best wishes and all

Miss Annabella

 
At 7/16/2006 1:56 AM, Blogger cjl871 said...

I knew the plan had been in place for three years before the ashram was shut down, and, as I've stated, I've never been anywhere near the inner circle! That wasn't hush hush. It was common knowledge. The only thing that was surprising was that Shree Muktananda Ashram (in South Fallsburgn, NY) is going to reopen under the same rules and guidelines as Gurudeva Siddha Peeth. Stricter rules. Less bullshit. This will weed out the 'trendies' from the true devotees.

I'm curious as to where you get your Siddha Yoga news from...and why you seem to be so interested in the SY goings on when you obviously abhor the place and the Guru.

I knew in 2002 that the Shree Muktananda Ashram was closing its doors. Why do you insist on making this news seem like it was hidden from the devotees and somehow scandalous????

----------------


Whoever wrote the above, the dysfunction within syda and its ever changing storylines may make these plans a reality, they may not... certainly would not be the first time something did not manifest, if it all falls through.

These claims that they want to reopen it under the guise of being like gsp, is perfect cover for the continued sale of devotee funded properties, assets, etc. gsp is a fenced, armed guard fortress. How lovely to want to duplicate that.

Nithyananda's Temple has never been a fortress, nor had need for armed guards. I wonder why gsp feels so paranoid that they wall themselves off?

For whatever structure is left of syda (I don't believe malti wants the gig anymore), a 'claimed' revised sma to resemble gsp is perfect. She can continue to make her way out the door.


---------------

Go meditate and get over yourself.
You're starting to be a tragically comic bore.

----------------


ahhhhh, nothing like the caustic style of sy speak... you do it SO well.

 
At 7/16/2006 11:08 AM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

cjl871...and all of you Anonymi:

***laughing to myself*** I have never asked for 'pity' ever in my life. Why? Because my injuries have taken me closer to the Truth than anything else.

Your insistance that I am occluded by SY talk, etc., etc. is just ridiculous. How many times do I have to tell you that I was never a part of the inner circle? I visited the ashram 7 times.

BTW, CJL871--Jody HAS been to two Siddha Yoga ashrams (I'm not sure if they were intensives, or not). You can check with him on that matter.

Whichever anonymi is saying that my comments are full of rage and anger is 'projecting' and wishing that I was angry. Sorry to upset you.

And whoever wrote the comment saying that they feel for be because of my injuries and that I shouldn't give SY my money--who are you people???? You all pretend to know me and everyone else who writes comments on this blog.

The drama ends here.

Jody, I'll catch you on the IM.

Cheers.

 
At 7/16/2006 12:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jody,

For me, the bottom line was the way Gurumayi/Malti treated both Radha Joan Bridges (whom Muktananda RAPED) and Allison Cliatt (whom former leading SYDA teacher Ram Butler RAPED).

I personally know both women well. Finally accepting the truth of the disturbing details of their respective stories regarding how Gurumayi/Malti was what brought me to quit Siddha Yoga after nearly 25 years of devoted involvement.

You defend your position based on secondhand information from two close friends of yours who are still involved with SYDA and still in close contact with Gurumayi/Malti, and based on that information, you conclude that "Gurumayi is not all bad".

Quite possibly that is true. Few human beings are ALL bad. Those who are usually are ALL bad are either unreformable criminals of the worst order who have no regard for the lives, properties, and rights of other people...or they become tyrannical leaders like Hitler, Stalin, Saddam, and their ilk.

So perhaps you are right in saying that Gurumayi isn't all bad. Nevertheless, I challenge you to get all available information FIRST hand rather than secondhand, and contact both Radha and Allison directly. They can indeed be located and contacted. They would probably be happy to set the record straight on what exactly transpired regarding how Gurumayi handled each situation. The details are enough to make the hairs stand up on the back on the neck of the average morally and ethically guided person. Again, I challenge you: PLEASE...Contact Radha and Allison directly and find out about the OTHER side of Gurumayi before coming to conclusive judgement of your own.

As a human being, Gurumayi may not be 100% ALL bad, as you say. But given what I've learned FIRSTHAND...as for myself, I can ONLY conclude that Gurumayi isn't 100% all GOOD and in fact is likely more than 50% BAD IF the details of what I've learned are true and if I haven't been lied to.

This forced me to decide: Continue to support something that was the most meaningful aspect of my spiritual life for nearly 25 years DESPITE what I'd learned...or CHOOSE a path away from it in order not to sacrifice my own moral and ethical bedrock?

For me, the choice was clear. I do miss the "old siddha yoga" I thought I knew. But I simply cannot support a movement that appears to have been so abusive to many. I myself received no abuse other than choosing to throw a lot of money into intensives, courses, books, recordings, etc. But that was my decision. I myself was not abused, but I simply can't condone the kind of abuse that is purported to have taken place.

And I can't see how you can decided to defend Gurumayi until you learn more firsthand from the supposed direct victims. None of us can know what is really true about the supposed abuse by Gurumayi and Muktananda...but if all you're doing is relying secondhand on what just two friends are saying...I would suggest to you that you aren't interested really delving into seeing the truth and drawing your conclusions with a 100% open mind or a 100% committment to making a decision with all the possible information available to you.

As for why Gurumayi withdrew from the scene and why she shut the SYDA ashram down...my guess, after having observed her change during the past 10 years...is that she simply got tired of being Guru and wanted to have as "normal" a life as possible after all that, and the only way to do that was to become something of a recluse. I don't believe it was the selfless act of spiritual self-sacrifice you describe. Rather, I think she'd finally reached the point of having "had it" and said "enough already" to herself and withdrew from the scene. So...given how so many depended on her for inspiration, is that selfLESS or selfISH?

-A very sad, but finally free former Gurumayi devotee

 
At 7/17/2006 10:12 AM, Blogger jody said...

Contact Radha and Allison directly and find out about the OTHER side of Gurumayi before coming to conclusive judgement of your own.

Wasn't that all like 20 years ago? Can't folks (even gurus) change in a 20-year span of time?

I've never said GM wasn't less than spectacular as a human being. It proves one of the points I'm trying to make here, that all gurus are all human all the time. Just because she did creepy things in her past doesn't mean she's just as bad now.

 
At 7/17/2006 11:44 AM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Anon wrote:

Contact Radha and Allison directly and find out about the OTHER side of Gurumayi before coming to conclusive judgement of your own.

Jody wrote:

Wasn't that all like 20 years ago? Can't folks (even gurus) change in a 20-year span of time?

I've never said GM wasn't less than spectacular as a human being. It proves one of the points I'm trying to make here, that all gurus are all human all the time. Just because she did creepy things in her past doesn't mean she's just as bad now.

----------------------

Hi Jody,

In the cases of both Radha and Alison, both contacted SYDA, gm and its head CEO within the past few years asking for responses to questions and help in resolving matters. Radha received a letter back from sy's CEO, saying he would need time to investigate her letter. Of course, NO response from him beyond this was ever forthcoming.

So, it was not 20 years ago that these matters have been left in the dust bin somewhere. Very recent activity has been taken to try to open a line of communication with syda, to its highest levels... nothing, no action beyond what read as a formal, cold form letter in response from syda's CEO.

Business as usual... and the beat goes on.


Take care,

C

 
At 7/17/2006 11:51 AM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Bhakti wrote:

BTW, CJL871--Jody HAS been to two Siddha Yoga ashrams (I'm not sure if they were intensives, or not). You can check with him on that matter.


-------------------

Hi Jody,

It would be good to have you share with us your history of involvement (or not) with syda/sy.

I would also like to hear what amount of time and what resources you've used in researching the con side of syda/sy and its leadership.


Thanks a lot,

C

 
At 7/17/2006 12:59 PM, Blogger jody said...

It would be good to have you share with us your history of involvement (or not) with syda/sy.

It's all in the post. I have nothing to add.

I would also like to hear what amount of time and what resources you've used in researching the con side of syda/sy and its leadership.

Enough to satisfy myself on my blog, which is composed of my opinions.

 
At 7/17/2006 1:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Jody,
I think you may have totally destroyed your credibility with alot of people during this whole discussion...not just because of your original post but because of how you have chosen to respond to facts presented by posters and questions directed to you . i have been reading your blog for a long time and, even though I felt that it sometimes seemed "over the top", I assumed that you were above-board and genuine in your intention to expose the frauds and shams of the "guru business". I suspect you will be losing alot of readers and, although you may say, "good riddance" (or "don't let the door kick you in the butt as you leave") to all of us, your reputation as someone who is committed to revealing fraud and corruption within the "spritual circuit" is something you can never regain once you have damaged it in the way that you have. I really hesitated before posting this....I hope you will believe that I am posting it not as a personal attack but with hope that you might consider what i have just said as coming from someone who has valued your contribution in the past.
sincerely,
s.

 
At 7/17/2006 2:09 PM, Blogger jody said...

because of how you have chosen to respond to facts presented by posters and questions directed to you

If I rolled over every time someone wanted me to change my opinion, I could have rolled around the world three times in the last year.

I'm not writing this blog to seek or establish credibility. I do it to make clear the occluding nature of ideas about self-realization, ideas about gurus being a subset of that class.

I say what I say because I want to say it, not because I'm any kind of authority in anything other than the expression of my opinions.

My traffic is up 33% in the last month. I'm gaining readers much quicker than I might be losing them. Just because there's a lot of ex-devotees holding on to their resentment and seeking revenge against Gurumayi doesn't mean she hasn't changed.

But, I acknowledge that I may have misread the situation, and I'm preparing an article based on info from a very recent exSYDAer if she allows me to go forward with her info.

That said, I'm not doing this to score brownie points with anyone, pro or anti-Gurumayi. If folks don't like what they are reading here, they can go read somewhere else.

 
At 7/17/2006 6:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Are you insecure & trying to kiss ass to these "2 individuals"?

Are you really that taken by Gurumayi's looks? (She's attractive but nothing special, I mean, come ON!)

The facts concerning the greedy power-grab that began her career are enough for me to know unleashed Ego where I see it.

This is my 2nd stunner with you!! First I was amazed that you managed to muster a low opinion of Ammachi. I mean, hello? She is tireless and looks like a sincere do-gooder if I've ever seen one (check out her schedule, how many people she touches, how many hours she puts in, her charities, her hospitals, her LACK of a hard sell for donations...)

Now you approve so much of this faker? I am really surprised and you have lost a LOT of cred with me.

 
At 7/17/2006 7:33 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Jody wrote:

My traffic is up 33% in the last month. I'm gaining readers much quicker than I might be losing them. Just because there's a lot of ex-devotees holding on to their resentment and seeking revenge against Gurumayi doesn't mean she hasn't changed.


-------------------------

There is someone 'very' recently fired by sy (someone who was in a position for seven years), and had access to gm and the 'inner circle' crowd. This person has filed a legal grievance against sy, for wrongful dismissal.

Sy has been in the process of downsizing staff, 'rightsizing', as some in the ex-sy community call this process. In the process of one of the more recent 'rightsizing' events which took place at sma, devotees who had offered countless hours of unpaid service to that facility, were told to apply for different positions to see if there may be a place for them somewhere else, as their position was to be eliminated. With good heart and mind, many applied for multiple positions, with genuine heartfelt anxiety and anticipation, if they'd be 'rightsized' out of sma.

The person who was recently fired by sy, has reported that he had reason to go into a room, as a water leak had been detected, and it needed to be checked. Not only was the water leak found, but also bulletin boards with sticky notes, listing exactly who had been 'pre' selected for the available seva/sleva positions at sma. There was absolutely NO need to put genuine good hearted sy devotees through the 'sy wringer' of applying for positions that there was NO way they would be receiving.

It was also revealed that gm came to a get together at sma, where a 'sy style' skit/small play was held. The entire theme of the play was devotees applying for seva/sleva positions, their anxiety and hand wringing, waiting to see if they would be slected. Gm sat and chuckled throughout the skit. This IS the level of what this deeply troubled woman finds entertaining... the humiliation at the expense of others. She's long held contempt for the 'ordinary' sy devotees.

It did not surprise me to read earlier in this blog of comments, that gm had referred to 'third world countries' and who sy devotees acted. She is a caste system/class conscious bitch.

She hasn't changed a bit. She still LOVES to have her 'entertainment' delivered to her on a silver platter; and that being entertainment which slays and exposes (with laughter and chuckles), the genuine hopes and good hearted nature of many who have come to serve syda and her (unknowing as to her nature).

Jody, I don't know if you have done any research into genuine narcissist disorders (on the level of a terminal narcissist -- think W, and you've got it). I don't know if you've ever done any research on someone who lives in states of disassociation. If not, I can only suggest it may come in helpful for future reference, before you go off the line, in a choice to post another article, such as you've done in this case.

I believe I once saw your membership on eXSY, the Yahoo list for former sy devotees. I don't know if you've ever thoroughly read LSY, leavingsiddhayoga.net? It also has some very valuable information to consider.

Not in agreement with the choice you made, to run the piece without coming to the former sy community to get another perspective, before running your piece; 'especially' considering you have called yourself an anti-guru site. But, this is your site.

I do question the process you went through in running such an uninformed article, with only the input of two friends who are active devotees of sy... I have no idea how long or involved either has been with the structure of sy?
I'd appreciate hearing what process you used to make the decisions you did, from conversations to actually running the piece


That's it for now,

C

 
At 7/17/2006 8:59 PM, Blogger jody said...

I'd appreciate hearing what process you used to make the decisions you did, from conversations to actually running the piece

I noticed searches hitting my blog that asked 'where is Gurumayi?' I talked to a friend who confirmed she is in Fallsburg. I read the year-old letter and rejoiced. It seemed like GM was backing away from being a living devi. It's the best thing she can do for her devotees, in my opinion, so I spun it gold, but only after I confessed my two experiences, both of which were negative overall and were expressed that way.

I've been aware of the ex list for a few years. I've heard many of the stories over and over again. I'm mostly in agreement that GM appears to have been a real creep on more than one occasion. But guess what? Plenty of real gurus, ones revered as avatars, etc., have been just as creepy as GM's ever been. The fact is that all gurus are human and show all the traits and foibles. It may not be how you want your guru to be, but that doesn't mean she isn't speaking from an experiential understanding about the nature of the self.

Even if she is just as you say, that doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's talking about or that she's completely cynical. Besides, a thoroughly bad guru can still work great for the right devotee.

This isn't reporting, this is one asshole's opinion: mine. I have no real idea what GM's status is as a realized person, but I'm fully convinced it is possible, just as it's possible Sai Baba is realized despite his distasteful proclivities.

I don't answer to you or anyone else. I'm not offering anything more than this jerk's opinion. It's gold or dog shit to whomever takes it as whatever.

 
At 7/18/2006 12:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Re: Ammachi

I limped off to Ammachi and received her blessings after I crawled away from my Muktananda Experience shocked and dishevelled.

I am eternally grateful for healing I received from Ammachi. I felt no inclination to become a devotee, in fact my experience with her freed me from 'devotee mindset'.

I just spent about a fortnight around her. I think she is a darling.

Miss Annabella

 
At 7/18/2006 7:51 AM, Blogger CHUCK said...

It's been a while since so many people squeezed so many pimples while looking into their mirrors on this site.

I don't think the broad is all that good looking but Jody still the man in this reader's book.

Nobody ever gets fooled who ain't lookin to get fooled.

 
At 7/18/2006 9:17 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This puts Gurumayi in a whole different class of gurus – the real ones. -- Jody
I am amazed at your criterion for Gurumayi being a real one. It seems to be that she no longer seeks devi status among her devotees. You have offered nothing positive about her. Does your dog then qualify as a real guru because it hasn't sought publicity, or is it necessary, like the prodigal son, to first be a jerk, and then be redeemed?

repo

 
At 7/18/2006 11:30 AM, Blogger cchinmadevi said...

The one thing that Gurumayi has always had the power to do is acknowledge the crimes of Muktananda. This has never been done. Others like Nityananda Jr. and Sally Kempton have the same power.

Acknowledgement is such a simple thing. Just say it and get it over with and let the chips fall where they may. With it all out in the open each devotee then can make an intelligent decision as to the value of Siddha Yoga based on truth not lies.

I know a lot of the victims who were young girls when they were assaulted by Muktananda. To this day for many their lives are not whole. They have been branded liars by SY and other stories have been fabricated of how they tried to seduce Muktananda and when he refused them they made up these stories.

Jody these were children!!!

This is not about money and lawsuits this is about acknowledgement. This is about letting victims go forward with their lives.

Perhaps I am naive. Somehow I expect a Guru or Spiritual Teacher to possess some degree of humanity and compassion. That these attributes should be universal and extend to all people not just for the chosen few.

So until I see this coming from Gurumayi I can only conclude that she has not changed at all.

 
At 7/18/2006 11:59 AM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

FIRST OF ALL, FOR SOME REASON UNBEKNOWNST TO ME, THE CHRONILOGICAL ORDER OF THESE COMMENTS ARE A MESS! (BTW--I used caps to get the attention people's attention, not with the intent of 'yelling', as caps would imply.)

cjl871 wrote to me:

Did you ever attend Standford University and drive a white mustang convertible? If so, I do know you, and I know your mother, as well.

No, I have never attended Standford University, and I only WISH I owned a white mustang convertible!!!! ;)

I do not speak for you on the place you are at, but I will engage with you, when it comes to statements such as: (paraphrasing, as I don't have it in front of me, it's in the sequence of the comments on this blog), that you don't know what everyone is making waves about in regard to Sally Kempton.

Yes, this wouldl be, as you say, paraphrasing. I DO know what you and all of the LSY and others who hate Gurumayi, Baba, are talking about.

My SOLE point in all of my statements is that I went to the ashram for Grace, and received exactly what I was looking for. Between the age of eight (when I had my first 'mystical' experience) and the time that I went to Gurumayi...the circle was completed. It was then, at the ashram (and Gurumayi wasn't physically present at the time, yet it was an Intensive) that I came to realize that THAT which I had been searching for was right within me.

As far as any negative comments on Sally Kempton are concerned...I can not speak for her. I can only share my experience of her altruistic love and spiritual guidance. She is my friend and spiritual teacher. Throughout the past four years she has offered to teach me and help me through the good times and bad (like, hhmmm...how many surgeries? including getting my neck reconstructed with Titanium and cadaver bones last August) without EVER asking for a penny. She took me under her wing...and EVERY bit of advice from her states that THE ANSWERS ARE WITHIN. She constantly reminds me of that Truth when my pain occludes it from my experience. ***Sidenote--hey Jody, I'm sorry for using your favorite word ('occlude'). I know that you have first dibs on that word on this blog. My apologies, my dear man, but it is the only suitable verb for that sentence :)*****

I KNOW why people who have left SY dispise her. I'm not an idiot. And I do know the history of disinformation with regard to Subash and his dethroning. I also know that when Sally (while still living in the ashram as Swami Durgananda) wrote the history of Siddha Yoga for the book Meditation Revolution (her essay is Part I of the book, entitled "To See the World Full of Saints" that she did mention the 'scandals' surrounding the dethroning of Subash, etc. These parts of the essay were ommitted by SYDA before publication (this information is readily available on the NET). She is not an advocate of 'disinformation', however, with regard to her, I will not speak for her. That is not my place.

You wrote:
Bhakti, I will converse with you. I am willing to step outside the parameters of sy (pro or con) to do so. But please know, if you engage the subject matter of those who have 'knowingly' been a part of the deception of tremendous pain and suffering to many within that organization, I will once again engage you under that subject matter.

Again, if you are speaking about SK, I absolutely believe that she wrote the 'history' of Siddha Yoga in her essay...and, unfortunately, the scandals were edited out. Therefore, I don't believe she is a perpetuant of the disinformation.
If you want to know why she doesn't speak of SY and its scandals now, you're definitely not going to get the answers on this blog, or in these comments.

You wrote:
I have NOT proofread this message for typos. The outer need for 'perfection', as sy obsesses over, left me many years ago.


A little passive aggressiveness coming through? ;)
Sally Kempton wrote a wonderful piece on 'Perfectionism' in her Yoga Journal column, and how to let go of its grip. (I was a perfectionist as a kid and as a young adult--again, because I knew I was gay. I figured that if I was the best at everything I did, that no one would stop loving me if they found out my 'secret'.) I found Sally's article insightful..in fact, she's not the perfectionist that many may think her to be...her emails contain just as many typos as mine! I am a writing teacher (although I did have to resign last August due to physical impairments), and I NEVER proofread my comments on blogs. So, in turn, please excuse any typos.

I used to tell my students that perfectionism was 'boring' and unattainable, so why try. Just do your best, your very best, and that alone will suffice.

You wrote:

I offer wishes of grace, peace and Godspeed for what you now face... I've stood on its doorway... Bhakti, you are not alone in seeing this picture in its wholeness.


I do feel your love in this blessing. Thank you, cjl871.

May everyone, everywhere, see the light of God shining within their own Hearts.

Blessings,
Bhakti

PS Thank you for your offer of discussing things further, however, with all due respect, I will decline the offer...for now. Perhaps in the future we can have a conversation regarding our 'spiritual' journeys. Thank you for the offer.

 
At 7/18/2006 12:21 PM, Anonymous bhakti said...

cjl871 wrote:

Nithyananda's Temple has never been a fortress, nor had need for armed guards. I wonder why gsp feels so paranoid that they wall themselves off?


Perhaps because 65,000 people were visiting the ashram every summer and Gurumayi herself during satsang a couple of summers ago that she knows only about 5,000 of 'you' are actual seekers.

Everyone on Earth knows that spiritual places attract all kinds, including those who are seriously searching for the Truth--to those who are on the fence--all of the way down to those who are perhaps a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Personally, if I had 65,000 people wanting to get close to me (or, lets make that 60,000 considering that most likely the 5,000 who are actual seekers know that they don't need to be near the physical Guru...because the Guru is within...the physical guru merely mirrors the devotee who approaches himself or herself.).

Personally, I wouldn't want 65,000 people wanting to get near me without some sort of body guards.

A friend of mine is doing longterm seva at Shree Muktananda Ashram and has told me that it IS definitely going to reopen with the same daily routine and regulations as GSP.

Are you aware that a Casino is being built right down the road from Shree Muktananda Ashram? This is also one of the big reasons why the ashram is closing ranks.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gurumayi moved to California near the Oakland Ashram.

But, as I've stated before, this is all hearsay...I've never been in the 'inner circle', nor have I ever wished to be.

Gurumayi is my Guru. She has taught me that the TRUE GURU (the Self) is within. Being in her physical presence is not a necesity once this is realized. However, I will forever thank her for her grace in completing the circle for me. I went to the ashram for the Shakti/Kundalini, and got what I was after.

Jody would argue that it wasn't Gurumayi or her shakti that awakened my kundalini...whatever the case, my kundalini was awakened in one of Sally's workshops (right before she left the ashram), and then fully ignited during an Intensive at SMA.

I won't argue Jody's point of view. Whatever that case may be...

PS My love for Bade Baba Nityananda is indescribable...his Grace is all consuming. Just thinking of him makes me teary eyed.

Hari Om Tat Sat.

 
At 7/18/2006 1:06 PM, Anonymous Bhakti said...

ANONYMOUS wrote:

As for why Gurumayi withdrew from the scene and why she shut the SYDA ashram down...my guess, after having observed her change during the past 10 years...is that she simply got tired of being Guru and wanted to have as "normal" a life as possible after all that, and the only way to do that was to become something of a recluse. I don't believe it was the selfless act of spiritual self-sacrifice you describe. Rather, I think she'd finally reached the point of having "had it" and said "enough already" to herself and withdrew from the scene. So...given how so many depended on her for inspiration, is that selfLESS or selfISH?


Gurumayi is in fact NOT a recluse. She is very lively while in Gurudev Siddha Peeth. She walks to the market by herself, without anyone bothering her. She does the Guru Gita daily with all of the devotees. She walks around all day without being harassed or 'stalked' like people in the USA do to her.

I wouldn't say she's sick of being the Guru...I'd say she's sick of the hoopla and of people in the West treating her like she's God.
Her message, if you listen closely, IS 'the true GURU is within yourself!'.

I agree with Gurumayi 100% when she says (as she did at her impromptu birthday celebration in 2004--and yes there was no celebration planned for that year!)...back to my point, I agree with Gurumayi 100% when she says that she has given us everything that we need to find the Truth within. She stated time and time again that 'we' (Siddha Yoga devotees) do NOT need to be near the physical guru to reach moksha. The physical Guru is NOT the Guru that should be meditated upon...it is the Self within that is the true Guru. She mentioned that over and over again during that informal satsang. She made it clear that she was focusing on the younger devotees now because most of the adults just want 'more, more, more' from her (Gurumayi) and she has already taught everything that needs to be taught. But the people just insist on getting MORE!

You tell me, Anonymous, what else could Gurumayi possibly give in order for you to realize that the 'God' (or whatever name you put to that which you worship) is right within yourself?

Baba makes it the most clear:

Respect your Self.
Meditate on your Self.
God dwells within you as you.


ANONYMOUS, what else do you need to hear? What else do you expect from any Guru than what has already been given by Bade Baba Nityananda, Baba, and Gurumayi?????
The TRUTH is right within Baba's statement above!
YOU are THAT which you are searching for. End of story.


Jesus Christ (my Beloved Lord), what else do these people want from a Guru???? Do you want your Guru to kiss you on the head and spontaneously throw you into moksha? Do you want her to speak endlessly when (people like yourself) don't hear what she is saying?? (I am basing this notion on the fact that you are calling Gurumayi SelfISH for pulling in the reins).

Why did you go to Sidhha Yoga in the first place? And if you left because of incidents that happened 20 years ago, why do you still keep tabs on Gurumayi's every move and try to figure out her motives???

I don't understand.

I went to the ashram and 'got' it (the Truth that Shree Shankara spoke about centuries ago) that the true Guru is Within! Tvat Tvam Asi.

I understand your rage...if your two friends were abused. I wasn't there twenty years ago. But I'm confused. I would think that someone who despises Gurumayi and who thinks that she is 50% BAD and compared her workings to the likes of Hitler, would be glad that she is tightening the ship.
Yet you write that you are concerned because she is no longer giving yearly messages and that she is somehow wrong to try to get her devotees to believe that the Truth is within...she is merely the vehicle of Shaktipat (which I know Jody disputes).

I would think that someone who doesn't like Gurumayi would be glad that Shree Muktananda Ashram has downsized (not 'closed' as you say...it is still open, just not open to day visitors at present).

Make up your mind Anonymous: You were there for how many years and didn't get the Truth? You were expecting Gurumayi to do all of the work for you? What were you thinking when you were doing your seva--"This seva will get me grace so that I can become liberated?" or something like that? Seva is about getting in touch with your heart, not about earning points with the Guru.
As I've stated before, in many comments, I was only at SMA 7 or 8 times and I had the great fortune of walking right up to Gurumayi's chair just after she finished the 2004 Global Satellite SY Message of the Year. She called off the security guards and let me talk to her, right in front of everyone in Muktananda Mandir (of course, I was not aware of anyone else at the time...I was only aware of Gurumayi and myself, as we merged).

I went to her with an open heart, and she talked to me, laughed with me, and let me thank her for her Grace. I then asked her if I could Pranam, as I had never had formal Darshan with her. She nodded and I pranamed. When I came back up in kneeling position, we stared into each other's eyes and she nodded three times and then smiled.

All of this, and I had never given diksha, never done long term seva; however, I had a longing since the age of eight to find the Truth. I always wanted to thank Gurumayi for teaching me that the Truth is right within my own heart. She let that happpen...during the New Year's Meassage satsang.

I offered her my love and thanks, and she reciprocated.

I found out she gave her last formal darshan at SMA the day after I left the ashram.

I saw her on next (last) two visits to the ashram.

There is no longer a need for me to be in her presence, because I know that the true Guru is within.
She completed that circle for me...SMA is where the goal my 24 year journey (with the guidance of Jesus) was completed.

I know the Self within is the true guru, and I see and understand that God throbs in everything, everywhere. However, I don't claim to be 'enlightened', 'Self-realized', "illumined"...those are words...words only cause separation.

I don't know what you would call what I experience. But it IS my experience, and Gurumayi was and is an integral part of it.

ANONYMOUS, I suspect that you will not understand anything of the mysticism that I have just spoken about, and that is fine. I do expect you to argue that my 'experience' is false, etc. and that, too is fine. I can't argue my experience...but, on the other hand, I will not deny the beauty of it. I don't expect you to understand the beauty I see everywhere...and how this came to be.

However, let's make one thing clear: my writing about my experience with Gurumayi is in NO WAY intended to negate your experience with Siddha Yoga. Our experiences will have to co-exist. I do not negate your experience; however, as stated above, I will not negate mine for your satisfaction.

Gurumayi is 50% BAD to you, and that is fine.

Gurumayi is my Guru, and that is fine, too.

We can, and do co-exist.

That is the nature of duality, and the nature of life, I suppose.

I don't have any answers.
I don't.
And I'm not being coy.

I can only offer you my experience.

I got what I was looking for while at Shree Muktananda Ashram...and my wisdom of the Truth continues to be nurished through my correspondence with my beloved Sallyji Kempton Durgananda.

Nothing more...nothing less.

We all have our own journey's and are at the exact place where we should be on the path. (And yes, this statement is, in fact, SY speak...but I find it to be true.
That is why I cannot get angry and argue anymore. I can only state my position, and my experience.

Which, of course is counter-productive on this particular blog since "I" am one who would be attacked by ex-Siddha Yogis. But I know that. I don't hate Jody's blog...I don't believe in blind faith, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning one's spiritual teachers. However, I do take Jody to task when he is incorrect with his findings. Jody and I don't agree on a lot of things, yet we co-exist).

Thank you.

 
At 7/18/2006 1:18 PM, Anonymous bhakti said...

CCHINMAHDEVI wrote:

The one thing that Gurumayi has always had the power to do is acknowledge the crimes of Muktananda. This has never been done. Others like Nityananda Jr. and Sally Kempton have the same power.

This is an excerpt of a comment I wrote to cjl871 above with regard to Sally:

I also know that when Sally (while still living in the ashram as Swami Durgananda) wrote the history of Siddha Yoga for the book Meditation Revolution (her essay is Part I of the book, entitled "To See the World Full of Saints" that she did mention the 'scandals' surrounding the dethroning of Subash, etc. These parts of the essay were ommitted by SYDA before publication (this information is readily available on the NET). She is not an advocate of 'disinformation', however, with regard to her, I will not speak for her. That is not my place.

 
At 7/18/2006 1:32 PM, Anonymous bhakti said...

JODY wrote But guess what? Plenty of real gurus, ones revered as avatars, etc., have been just as creepy as GM's ever been. The fact is that all gurus are human and show all the traits and foibles. It may not be how you want your guru to be, but that doesn't mean she isn't speaking from an experiential understanding about the nature of the self.


Jody--this is the smartest thing I have read on this blog in the past three days. Wasn't it Shunru Suzuki who said "It is the purpose of the spiritual teacher to insult the student." That's a way of cracking egoes. I've had plenty of SY Swami's insult me, and then, upon further contemplation, realized that I learned a lesson from their frankness. They (one in particular, although I don't know his name) insulted me right before a satsang...and during the satsang Gurumayi spoke exactly to the issue that I was having trouble with (self-doubt). At the end of the satsang I approached the Swami who had berated me and he smiled. He said, "You see? You don't need to ask me for guidance. You have the power to make decisions yourself." We both smiled and walked away.

Someone else could have EASILY just dismissed the Swami's comment as being rude and inexcusable: however, my experience in spiritual places (including churches and retreat places such as Omega Institute), NOTHING happens by chance. Everything is a learning experience. In fact, that goes for life in general.

Adios.

And Jody...when you write your next article discrediting Gurumayi because of your newfound information, please remember that it doesn't negate my wonderful experiences with her.

Much love,
And send my regards to the hair on your dog's ass.

;)
Bhakti

PS You have the most difficult 'Word Verification' I've ever encountered. I feel like I'm taking a Mavis Beacon typing test, or something.

 
At 7/18/2006 5:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi again. I posted my surprise to the "The Mystery of the Missing Devi" and you responded with:

"My traffic is up 33% in the last month. I'm gaining readers much quicker than I might be losing them. Just because there's a lot of ex-devotees holding on to their resentment and seeking revenge against Gurumayi doesn't mean she hasn't changed."

Well that's cool your traffic is up! You have put in a lot of work here and I love coming. But why do you assume I am an ex devotee? I have never been a devotee of anyone. I'm a student of life. My enemies are my best mirrors and teachers.

Jody, I love that you are usually such a vigilant BS-detector, and I hope that you will keep your standards high in the future. Please reserve titles like "True Guru" for after you have really kicked the tires on a person and a situation. We come here for your cynical, microscope-scrutiny and tough assessments. Please revert to that norm.

 
At 7/18/2006 9:59 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

C wrote:

Nithyananda's Temple has never been a fortress, nor had need for armed guards. I wonder why gsp feels so paranoid that they wall themselves off?

Bhakti wrote:

Perhaps because 65,000 people were visiting the ashram every summer and Gurumayi herself during satsang a couple of summers ago that she knows only about 5,000 of 'you' are actual seekers.

Everyone on Earth knows that spiritual places attract all kinds, including those who are seriously searching for the Truth--to those who are on the fence--all of the way down to those who are perhaps a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Personally, if I had 65,000 people wanting to get close to me (or, lets make that 60,000 considering that most likely the 5,000 who are actual seekers know that they don't need to be near the physical Guru...because the Guru is within...the physical guru merely mirrors the devotee who approaches himself or herself.).

Personally, I wouldn't want 65,000 people wanting to get near me without some sort of body guards.


----------------------


Hi Bhakti,

I first question the figure of 65,000. Sy has long PR'd figures which are highly inflated. A marketing tactic.

I also highly question the figure of millions which Jody quotes in his original article. Millions were 'never' devotees. Some tens of thousands in its heyday possibly, but not millions.

Gm has never been comfortable with numbers of devotees being around her. She's had stools built to keep them from approaching her too closely in darshan while in India. She's definitely never been even close to one like Ammachi, who simply opens her arms and welcomes everyone.

Paranoia can often accompany more advanced stages of personality and untreated mental disorders. This is a consideration I'd find more in line to lay out as a possibility.


Bhakti wrote:

A friend of mine is doing longterm seva at Shree Muktananda Ashram and has told me that it IS definitely going to reopen with the same daily routine and regulations as GSP.

--------------------

There have been many reports over the years of SURE plans for sma, gsp, etc. Many never saw the light of day, but monies collected in specific for the projects, were never returned to the devotees, nor any explanation given as to where the money went... syda kept it.


Bhakti wrote:

Are you aware that a Casino is being built right down the road from Shree Muktananda Ashram? This is also one of the big reasons why the ashram is closing ranks.

I wouldn't be surprised if Gurumayi moved to California near the Oakland Ashram.


----------------------

I'm sure she'd love to move to California. She's been reported to have a private gated home outside of San Fran, for quite a few years now.

Yes, the casinos have been rumored to be moving in for quite a few years. News that Donald Trump put up substantial sums to help quash this reality in the S.F. area, has many questioning if it will ever happen.

Well meaning devotees can often be the last to have the reality hit, that a much talked about project will not manifest. I've seen this over and over again.

But, with malti not wanting the gig anymore (as I believe is the case), the cover of casinos, redoing the environment, sale of properties and other devotee funded assets, will continue, unabaited, imo.

Sma purchased alot of acreage around sma, so she would not be out of a private retreat, even if the remaining two sma sites were sold.

As for Ms. Kempton, yes she did write about muk's sexual misdeeds for 'The Meditation Revolution'. It was the reason Prof Larson (not of sy) agreed to write the forward to the book. After the fallout of Lis Harris' article in The New Yorker, gm held hopes that the scholars and this book could redeem her, and syda.

After Larson submitted his forward, thinking it great that muk's sexual misdeeds would finally find a public opening for disclosure, gm walked into an editing meeting for the book, and pulled Sally's pages... they never saw the light of day.

This is when the sy scholars were called on the carpet by their peers at an academic conference, wanting to know why the pages were missing. Doug Brooks took the biggest hit for this deletion, at that event.

Framing time forward, it was after this public debacle, that gm and syda 'uninvited' the scholars from taking part in any further summer or other retreats. The gig was cancelled.

Publicly syda promised to include the deleted pages on the next printing, but of course, that never took place.

The writing of these pages is not the only opportunity Ms. Kempton would have had to publicly set the records straight, and still does; as sexual abuse and its cover up continued for many years under muk's time, and gm and george afif's time. Former devotees also left, because wealthy people known to be pedophiles, were allowed to stay at the ashrams - Oakland comes to mind as one of the last I heard about in years gone by.

Stan Trout (ex-sy swami) had the integrity to leave sy (even though muk had him beaten up), and publicly tell of muk's misdeeds. Each sy swami has had the same life choice.

That Ms. Kempton has now formed the Dharma Institute (fully knowing what she was a part of, what and whom she served) It is far beyond ironic, imo.

As for your comments, Jody, on people moving on. You may want to do some research on just how long it can take people who were raped by someone such as muk, to wake-up There are plenty of good professional references on LSY and eXSY, to help anyone interested begin to understand the extent of the damages done.

Syda has abandoned these people. They were only interested in manipulating them to keep them quiet. Thank goodness, there are people with conscience and compassion in the ex-sy community, who will not just move on and leave these women alone, yet again.

With the numbers of people leaving sy, a site which welcomes discussion for former members, it will always have people at differing stages of waking up, healing, and when ready, moving on (not because someone else tells them to, but because they are fully ready to).

Sy has long tried to characterize the ex-sy community as angry, vengeful, having an ax to grind, etc. So to hear you rehash these worn out phrases, Jody, is nothing new. The truth being, yes some people are naturally angry for a length of time, upon waking up to the level of deception, via sy and its leadership. It's a very natural state to go through. With time, it passes. The projection of anger, an ax to grind, etc., is only of sy's making, and those who follow in their footsteps to repeat these long worn out phrases.


Thanks for your post, Bhakti.

C

 
At 7/19/2006 4:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

C Said:

Sy has long tried to characterize the ex-sy community as angry, vengeful, having an ax to grind, etc.



Gee, we can't imagine from reading these comments wherever they would get such an idea!

 
At 7/26/2006 3:13 PM, Blogger Yayahdev said...

Some of you people are typical sufferers
you bite the hand that feeds you
and keep going around guru hunting after you've lost your hopes of 'something' extraordinary, you're not HAPPY and were always under the impression someone was gonna bring it for you on a silver plate. Bunch of suckers, it has never worked that way and it'll never will, this is why you'll continue unhappy not knowing that you fell on the wrong planet. Just as well join the widows association of Krishnamurti, you'll certainly recognise yourselves

 
At 7/28/2006 6:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yayahdev

Your embittered post had the benefit of reminding me of one of the main reasons I feel so much more happier free from the whole crazy Muktananda-plus guru-kundalini- yoga trip. So many people caught up in cults just become plain nasty, defensive and blinkered in their references when any valid criticism of their belief system is being displayed.

IMHO, the antithesis of real spirituality and "realisation".

 
At 7/31/2006 3:34 PM, Blogger lente said...

This is somewhat funny (Though I doubt many can laugh about it), people are so hung up on their opinions. Jody is right in his cynical way to say that his opinions are just an assholes opinions. As our al our opinions. When you look at it realistically it’s all ego interest, one ego against another. Ex-devotee against asshole against devotee against random anonymous person. The ex-devotee is bitter, the asshole is hopeful, the devotee apologizes and the random person talks random.

Not that opinions don’t matter, after all, they are everything we have. That and relative facts. When it comes to mind like things and spiritual matters it al becomes rather vague. (and mostly fact less) First, people try to judge on different scales. The ex-devotee needs to believe it was ok to leave, he needs to vend his anger, the asshole needs a redeemable guru and the devotee a trustworthy guru. Three opinions that are off the mark. People should have been thinking; “Is this guru useful?”, that’s all, why worry over behaviour? Is there anyone here that believes you can judge non-duality?

I don’t believe so! When you confronted with the strange behaviour of the guru (both positive and negative) it is - in my opinion - only useful to judge it as either useful to spiritual growth, natural to spiritual growth or harmful spiritual growth, yours of course, don’t try t judge for others, you can’t. In the case of harmful behaviour 3 things (IMO) can be done.

1) Ignore it or don’t care. This way you can keep on trusting the guru and surrender your ego to him or more precisely to the Self inside your guru, the Self that is equally in you.

2) Leave.

3) Fight it out with your guru, by all means go and make a scene, that should be fun. You will either come to some understanding with you guru or leave.

Al other debate is useless, but still, that too has it reasons and usefulness.

 
At 7/31/2006 4:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Here is a link to an article by Timothy Conway, an articulate and knowledgeable student of Sri Nisargadatta, and a critic (in the best sense) of the whole guru scene. So much bad behaviour by gurus has been rationalized using notions of "crazy wisdom". Mostly, a load of bollocks. Conway explains very well how that term is commonly misused or used opportunistically to excuse inexcusable behaviour. Just because on one level everything is perfect does not mean that on the level where we live our lives we are free to harm others, whether we are "fully realized" or not.

 
At 7/31/2006 11:37 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

Lente wrote:

---------------

In the case of harmful behaviour 3 things (IMO) can be done.

1) Ignore it or don’t care. This way you can keep on trusting the guru and surrender your ego to him or more precisely to the Self inside your guru, the Self that is equally in you.

2) Leave.

3) Fight it out with your guru, by all means go and make a scene, that should be fun. You will either come to some understanding with you guru or leave.

Al other debate is useless, but still, that too has it reasons and usefulness.

7/31/2006 2:34 PM

----------------------


In 'claimed guru groups' such as syda/sy, above examples of 'cognitivie dissonanace' may have once held a chance, as a candle in the wind. At the end of the day to those who 'woke-up' from such cd/mojo, the 'sway' is transparent, and the gig is up.

 
At 8/10/2006 3:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Lovers scorned?

 
At 8/11/2006 11:49 PM, Blogger cjl871 said...

anonymous wrote:
Lovers scorned?

------------------------


Really, her latest beau has left her 'so soon'/scorned her? No, I'd have to disagree. Credible reports indicate that the inner crowd is well aware of the musician she is openly dating... has not scorned her, yet. It's all on the up and up, still.

Possibly 'scorned' before (multiple times), but the current beau is still reported to be on-line with this 'dating scene'.

Oh, all so grand, isn't it... no wait a minute, I seem to recall somewhere the words: 'God lives within you as you. Look within'... guess this scene gives ALL new meaning to those phrases, mouthed aimlessly over the years...

On it goes.

 
At 8/26/2006 8:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is a reply to Bhakti from the Anonymous you addressed so strongly. I am replying over a full month later not because I was ignoring you, but because I almost never read or post to Jody's blog since I feel no compelling need to visit it particularly often and I was not aware you had addressed me.

I will have no choice, given the length of your message to me, but to paste in your reply here and then respond to the points I'm moved to respond to, in capital letters. I will not do this to yell...I repeat, I will not be yelling...but instead, to distinguish my reply from your original text. My responses are below, mixed in with your original text.

BHAKTI'S PASTED TEXT BEGINS HERE:
Gurumayi is in fact NOT a recluse. She is very lively while in Gurudev Siddha Peeth. She walks to the market by herself, without anyone bothering her. She does the Guru Gita daily with all of the devotees. She walks around all day without being harassed or 'stalked' like people in the USA do to her.

I wouldn't say she's sick of being the Guru...I'd say she's sick of the hoopla and of people in the West treating her like she's God.
Her message, if you listen closely, IS 'the true GURU is within yourself!'. (BHAKTI I NOW PREFER TO SEE FORMLESS GOD AS MY GURU AND I HAVE FOR MANY MANY YEARS RECOGNIZED THAT GOD AS THE SOURCE OF SELF. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM PREACHING TO ME ABOUT MY CONNECTION WITH THE GOD WITHIN WHEN YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT ME. I SEE IT AS AN INSULT.)

I agree with Gurumayi 100% when she says (as she did at her impromptu birthday celebration in 2004--and yes there was no celebration planned for that year!)...back to my point, I agree with Gurumayi 100% when she says that she has given us everything that we need to find the Truth within. She stated time and time again that 'we' (Siddha Yoga devotees) do NOT need to be near the physical guru to reach moksha. The physical Guru is NOT the Guru that should be meditated upon...it is the Self within that is the true Guru. She mentioned that over and over again during that informal satsang. She made it clear that she was focusing on the younger devotees now because most of the adults just want 'more, more, more' from her (Gurumayi) and she has already taught everything that needs to be taught. But the people just insist on getting MORE!

You tell me, Anonymous, what else could Gurumayi possibly give in order for you to realize that the 'God' (or whatever name you put to that which you worship) is right within yourself? (BHAKTI, GIVEN WHAT I HAVE WRITTEN ABOVE, I ALREADY RECOGNIZE AND EXPERIENCE MY INNER CONNECTION WITH GOD AS MY SELF AND THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. I ALREADY EXPERIENCE THE UNIVERSE IN MYSELF AND MYSELF AS THE UNIVERSE SIMULTANEOUSLY. BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING I WANT OR NEED FROM GURUMAYI ANY FURTHER FOREVER. I WANT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM HER OTHER THAN FOR HER TO COME CLEAN ABOUT HER OWN ATTEMPTED COVERUPS OF SEXUAL MISCONDUCT BY HER GURU AND BY RAM BUTLER, AND TO MAKE RETRIBUTION TO THE VICTIMS AND TO THE CURRENT AND FORMER SIDDHA YOGA PUBLIC AND THEIR FAMILIES.)

Baba makes it the most clear:

Respect your Self.
Meditate on your Self.
God dwells within you as you.

(BHAKTI: DID YOU RECEIVE SHAKTIPAT FROM GURUMAYI OR BABA? IF THE FORMER, PLEASE DO NOT SPEAK TO ME ABOUT WHAT BABA SAID. BABA GAVE ME SHAKTIPAT PHYSICALLY. I KNEW HIM AND IMBIBED HIS WORDS. IT IS INSULTING TO ME THAT YOU PREACH TO ME ABOUT BABA'S WORDS WHEN YOU DO NOT KNOW ME AND KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME, WHEN I HEARD HIS WORDS WITH MY VERY OWN EARS WHEN HE SPOKE THEM AND READ THEM WITH MY VERY OWN EYES SHORTLY AFTER HE SPOKE THEM. HE STILL SEXUALLY ABUSED YOUNG WOMEN AND TOLD THEM NOT TO TELL THEIR HUSBANDS OR THEIR PARENTS WHEN HE HIMSELF DEMANDED THE REST OF US OBSERVE BRAHMACHARYA. IS THIS NOT HYPOCRISY??? I AM MAKING THE MORAL AND ETHICAL CHOICE TO NO LONGER FOLLOW A TEACHER WHO LIED TO ME, OR FOLLOW HIS SUCCESSOR FOR THAT MATTER. I WAS FORCED TO MAKE THE CHOICE BETWEEN MY OWN HIGHEST INTEGRITY IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH FORMLESS ALMIGHTY GOD AND A TEACHER WHO INITIATED ME INTO KUNDALINI BUT DID NOT WALK HIS OWN TALK. WHO ARE YOU TO CRITICIZE OR COMMENT ON MY ETHICAL AND MORAL CHOICE???)

ANONYMOUS, what else do you need to hear? What else do you expect from any Guru than what has already been given by Bade Baba Nityananda, Baba, and Gurumayi?????
The TRUTH is right within Baba's statement above! YOU are THAT which you are searching for. End of story. (BHAKTI: AS ABOVE, AGAIN, I NEED NOTHING NOR WANT ANYTHING. SEE MY RESPONSES ABOVE.)

Jesus Christ (my Beloved Lord), what else do these people want from a Guru???? Do you want your Guru to kiss you on the head and spontaneously throw you into moksha? Do you want her to speak endlessly when (people like yourself) don't hear what she is saying?? (I am basing this notion on the fact that you are calling Gurumayi SelfISH for pulling in the reins). (BHAKTI, I AM NOT CALLING GURUMAYI SELFISH FOR PULLING IN THE REINS. YOU HAVE COMPLETELY MISINTERPRETED WHAT I MEANT BY SELFISH. A SELFLESS GURU WOULD DO WHATEVER WAS NEEDED TO MAKE AMENDS FOR THE COVERUPS SHE HAS ENGAGED IN TO AVOID RISKING HER FINANCIAL POSITION. A SELFISH GURU TELLS A YOUNG GIRL "DON'T TELL YOUR MOTHER" IN PRIVATE DARSHAN AFTER RAM BUTLER RAPES HER.(AND ALISON'S MOTHER IS ALSO A DEVOTEE...A DEVOTEE WHO CHOSE TO KEEP THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GURUMAYI OPEN, THUS CHOOSING TO END HER RELATIONSHIP WITH HER OWN DAUGHTER, AND YES I DO KNOW THIS, I KNOW BOTH ALISON AND HER MOTHER SILKE. HOW INCREDIBLY SAD THAT THE MOTHER CHOSE NOT TO DEFEND HER OWN CHILD AFTER THEIR SPIRITUAL TEACHER ASKED HER TO COVER UP THE RAPE!!!)

Why did you go to Sidhha Yoga in the first place? (FOR KUNDALINI AWAKENING AND TO HAVE MY COLLEGE DRUG ADDICTION TAKEN AWAY, BOTH GIFTS I DID RECEIVE AND AM STILL GRATEFUL FOR.)

And if you left because of incidents that happened 20 years ago, why do you still keep tabs on Gurumayi's every move and try to figure out her motives??? (BABA'S RAPE OF RADHA MAY HAVE HAPPENED 20 YEARS AGO BUT RAM'S RAPE OF ALISON HAPPENED LESS THAN 10 YEARS AGO, AND GURUMAYI'S ATTEMPT TO BULLY ALISON INTO COVERING IT UP ALSO HAPPENED LESS THAN 10 YEARS AGO. AND BELIEVE ME WHEN I TELL YOU, I DO NOT KEEP TABS ON GURUMAYI'S EVERY MOVE NOR DO I TRY TO FIGURE OUT HER MOTIVES. I DON'T KNOW WHERE GURUMAYI IS AND NOR DO I CARE ANYMORE. I DON'T WANT TO REMEMBER GURUMAYI AT ALL. AND I DO NOT TRY TO FIGURE OUT HER MOTIVES. A RAPE IS A RAPE AND AN ATTEMPT TO COVER UP THAT RAPE IS AN ATTEMPT TO COVER UP THAT RAPE. I AM MERELY CHOOSING SUFFICIENT PERSONAL INTEGRITY FOR MYSELF THAT I CAN NO LONGER ALLOW MYSELF TO FOLLOW A GURU WHO WOULD DO THAT SINCE I DO NOT WISH TO REPRESENT SUCH REPREHENSIBLE BEHAVIOR NOR DO I WANT IT TO REFLECT ON ME, NOR DO I WISH TO LEND ANY SUPPORT OF ANY KIND TO THIS. IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, BY BEING AN APOLOGIST FOR GURUMAYI, YOU ARE BEING AN APOLOGIST, INDIRECTLY AS IT MAY BE, FOR RAPE. I WOULD ASK YOU TO FACE SUCH ACTION FOR WHAT IT IS AND ASK YOURSELF IF YOU WANT SUCH A TEACHER REPRESENT THE BEST OF WHOM YOU ARE???)

I don't understand.

I went to the ashram and 'got' it (the Truth that Shree Shankara spoke about centuries ago) that the true Guru is Within! Tvat Tvam Asi.

I understand your rage...if your two friends were abused. I wasn't there twenty years ago. But I'm confused. I would think that someone who despises Gurumayi and who thinks that she is 50% BAD and compared her workings to the likes of Hitler, would be glad that she is tightening the ship. (BHAKTI, THE HITLER REFERENCE WAS NOT MEANT TO COMPARE GURUMAYI TO HITLER, I MERELY INTENDED IT TO ILLUSTRATE THE TWO THINGS THAT I SEE HAVING TYPICALLY HAPPENED WITH NARCISSISTS.)

Yet you write that you are concerned because she is no longer giving yearly messages and that she is somehow wrong to try to get her devotees to believe that the Truth is within...she is merely the vehicle of Shaktipat (which I know Jody disputes). (BHAKTI, I DON'T REALLY CARE IF SHE GIVES ANNUAL NEW YEARS' MESSAGES OR NOT ANYMORE. NOW THAT SALLY KEMPTON, HER PURPORTED GHOSTWRITER, HAS LEFT SYDA AND BECOME A LAYPERSON AGAIN, I WILL BE IN FACT RATHER SURPRISED TO SEE IF NEW ANNUAL MESSAGES CONTINUE AS OF JANUARY 1, 2007 AND BEYOND OR NOT. AND AS FOR BEING THE VECHICLE FOR SHAKTIPAT, BEFORE I QUIT SIDDHA YOGA, I STOOD RIGHT NEXT TO GURUMAYI FOR SEVERAL MINUTES AND TALKED WITH HER AT LENGTH AND FELT ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM HER, NO SHAKTI, NOTHING. DESPITE TRYING VERY HARD TO BE AS RECEPTIVE AND DEVOTED AND HUMBLE AS POSSIBLE AT THE TIME. IT SUDDENLY HIT ME THAT IT MIGHT BE THAT SHE NO LONGER HAD ANYTHING TO TRANSMIT.)

I would think that someone who doesn't like Gurumayi would be glad that Shree Muktananda Ashram has downsized (not 'closed' as you say...it is still open, just not open to day visitors at present). (BHATKI, CLOSED TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC FOR NEARLY 2 TO 3 YEARS IS CLOSED, AS I SEE IT. YOU ARE MAKING AN EXTREMELY FINE DISTINCTION AND THE FACT IS THAT PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT ON STAFF ARE NOT ONLY ALLOWED TO ENTER THE ASHRAM GROUNDS BUT ALSO NOT EVEN ALLOWED TO VISIT THE TREES BY THE LAKE TO REMEMBER THEIR DEPARTED LOVED ONES. AS FAR AS I AM CONCERNED NOW, I REALLY DON'T CARE IF IT REOPENS TO THE PUBLIC OR NOT. IN FACT, I WISH THE WHOLE THING WOULD JUST CLOSE DOWN FOREVER AT THIS POINT.)

Make up your mind Anonymous: You were there for how many years and didn't get the Truth?
(BHAKTI, MY POSTS ABOVE SHOULD INDICATE TO YOU THAT IN FACT I DID GET IT.)

You were expecting Gurumayi to do all of the work for you? (BHAKTI, NOTHING OF THE SORT, ONCE A PERSON RECEIVED KUNDALINI INITIATION ALL THE WORK IS THEN UP TO THEM. HOWEVER, I HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE POINT THAT YOU ARE MAKING ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT WHAT I WAS EXPECTING, ABOUT ME AND HOW I LIVE MY OWN LIFE AND SPIRITUAL PRACTICE, AND I FIND THAT BOTH INCREDIBLY INSULTING AND EXTREMELY ARROGANT AND PRESUMPTUOUS. WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO MAKE ASSUMPTIONS ABOUT ME???)

What were you thinking when you were doing your seva--"This seva will get me grace so that I can become liberated?" or something like that? Seva is about getting in touch with your heart, not about earning points with the Guru.
(BHAKTI: NO, WHEN I DID SEVA THE PRIMARY THING I THOUGHT ABOUT WAS SIMPLY DOING IT AS ONE-POINTEDLY AND AS QUIET-MINDEDLY AS POSSIBLE. NO MORE, NO LESS.)

As I've stated before, in many comments, I was only at SMA 7 or 8 times
(BHAKTI, NOT THAT I'M TRYING TO ONE UP YOU BUT I NEED NO LECTURES ON THIS POINT. I'VE BEEN TO SMA PROBABLY ABOUT 100 TIMES SINCE 1980 AND TO GSP ONCE AS WELL. WHAT IS YOUR POINT?) and I had the great fortune of walking right up to Gurumayi's chair just after she finished the 2004 Global Satellite SY Message of the Year. She called off the security guards and let me talk to her, right in front of everyone in Muktananda Mandir (of course, I was not aware of anyone else at the time...I was only aware of Gurumayi and myself, as we merged). (BHAKTI, WERE YOU MERGING WITH GURUMAYI THE PERSONALITY OR WERE YOU MERGING INTO THAT CONNECTION WITH GOD THE FORMLESS DIVINE? AND YES, I DO MAKE A DISTINCTION. "GURU" IS GOD'S GRACE-BESTOWING POWER AND NOT A BODY, PERSONALITY, OR LEADER. I WOULD URGE YOU TO CONTEMPLATE THE QUESTION I JUST ASKED VERY, VERY DEEPLY.)

I went to her with an open heart, and she talked to me, laughed with me, and let me thank her for her Grace. I then asked her if I could Pranam, as I had never had formal Darshan with her. She nodded and I pranamed. When I came back up in kneeling position, we stared into each other's eyes and she nodded three times and then smiled. (BHAKTI: PLEASE DON'T TAKE THIS INSULTINGLY SINCE IT ISN'T INTENDED THIS WAY, BUT: SO WHAT??? SHE DOES THAT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE.)

All of this, and I had never given diksha, never done long term seva; however, I had a longing since the age of eight to find the Truth. I always wanted to thank Gurumayi for teaching me that the Truth is right within my own heart. She let that happpen...during the New Year's Meassage satsang.

I offered her my love and thanks, and she reciprocated.

I found out she gave her last formal darshan at SMA the day after I left the ashram.

I saw her on next (last) two visits to the ashram.

There is no longer a need for me to be in her presence, because I know that the true Guru is within.
She completed that circle for me...SMA is where the goal my 24 year journey (with the guidance of Jesus) was completed.

I know the Self within is the true guru, and I see and understand that God throbs in everything, everywhere. However, I don't claim to be 'enlightened', 'Self-realized', "illumined"...those are words...words only cause separation.

I don't know what you would call what I experience. But it IS my experience, and Gurumayi was and is an integral part of it.
(BHAKTI, I FULLY UNDERSTAND THAT EXPERIENCE BUT WOULD AGAIN ASK YOU, WERE YOU MERGING WITH A PERSONALITY OR WITH THAT CONNECTION TO THE FORMLESS DIVINE THAT LIES AT THE INNERMOST CORE OF WHOM YOU ARE? AS ABOVE, I WOULD ASK YOU TO CONTEMPLATE THAT VERY, VERY DEEPLY.)

ANONYMOUS, I suspect that you will not understand anything of the mysticism that I have just spoken about, and that is fine. (BHATKI, AGAIN I FIND THIS EXTREMELY INSULTING FOR YOUR TO PRESUME ANY KNOWLEDGE OF MY UNDERSTANDING OF MYSTICISM OR LACK THEREOF WITHOUT KNOWING ME AT ALL OR ANYTHING ABOUT ME. WHY DO YOU CHOOSE TO INSULT OTHERS AND PRESUME SO MUCH ABOUT THEM IN THIS WAY? I WOULD ASK THAT YOU LOOK DEEPLY INTO YOUR OWN HEART AND MIND AND PERSONALITY AND DETERMINE WHAT CAUSES YOU TO DO THIS??? FOR ALL I KNOW I COULD HAVE A DEEPLY MYSTICAL BENT TO MY NATURE, OR BE TOTALLY MATERIALISTIC. BUT YOU DON'T KNOW WHICH SINCE YOU DON'T KNOW ME, AND THUS HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY PRESUME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER?)

I do expect you to argue that my 'experience' is false, etc. and that, too is fine. (BHAKTI, I HAVE NOT ARGUED THAT WAY AT ALL. WE HAVE BOTH HAD DEEP EXPERIENCES. I SIMPLY NO LONGER FEEL THE NEED FOR AN INTERMEDIARY TO CONNECT ME WITH THE LORD IN MY OWN HEART.)

I can't argue my experience...but, on the other hand, I will not deny the beauty of it. I don't expect you to understand the beauty I see everywhere...and how this came to be.

However, let's make one thing clear: my writing about my experience with Gurumayi is in NO WAY intended to negate your experience with Siddha Yoga. Our experiences will have to co-exist. I do not negate your experience; however, as stated above, I will not negate mine for your satisfaction. (BHAKTI, I NEVER ASKED YOU TO. DID I??? WHEN DID I EVER ASK THIS OF YOU??? NOR WOULD I EVER ASK THIS OF ANYONE.)

Gurumayi is 50% BAD to you, and that is fine.

Gurumayi is my Guru, and that is fine, too.

We can, and do co-exist.

That is the nature of duality, and the nature of life, I suppose.

I don't have any answers.
I don't.
And I'm not being coy.

I can only offer you my experience.

I got what I was looking for while at Shree Muktananda Ashram...and my wisdom of the Truth continues to be nurished through my correspondence with my beloved Sallyji Kempton Durgananda.

Nothing more...nothing less.

We all have our own journey's and are at the exact place where we should be on the path. (And yes, this statement is, in fact, SY speak...but I find it to be true.
That is why I cannot get angry and argue anymore. I can only state my position, and my experience.

Which, of course is counter-productive on this particular blog since "I" am one who would be attacked by ex-Siddha Yogis. But I know that. I don't hate Jody's blog...I don't believe in blind faith, so there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning one's spiritual teachers. However, I do take Jody to task when he is incorrect with his findings. Jody and I don't agree on a lot of things, yet we co-exist).

Thank you.

(UHHH....OK, SURE, NO PROBLEM.)

 
At 9/02/2006 9:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Exsy at Yahoo groups if you cannot fit in there.

 
At 9/04/2006 4:00 PM, Blogger Pitchboy said...

I have read thru all the comments on Jody's Missing Devi blog this evening and was deeply moved.There are many things I'd like to respond to, but for now, I can only focus on few.

If Gurumayi really wanted a change in her approach to gurudom, she could simply address it openly and not leave her devotees to guesswork for years now. All that is factual is that she has withdrawn from the scene. No explanation was ever given. I don't consider this to be a responsible or loving approach. In fact, it is as insensitive as it can get.

People are left unsure and disturbed. About a year ago, I visited a center and asked people about Gurumayi's disappearance. people were embarassed and looked at their own feet. No one was happy with this development, and obviously, no one had received any guidance on that topic.

Yes, SY still collects all the dakshina (money) it can lay its hands upon. The money is NOT collected for autonomous centers, but for the Foundation that has ceased to function on a visible level. One devotee confessed to me that, with the last (2005) mahasamadhi (Muktananda's death day) intensive, not only ALL the revenues were directly sent to South Fallsburg HQ, but - and this was a novelty - NOTHING of this money was to be used to cover ANY of the costs the hosting centers had (technical equipment, food or anything else). The fee of the intensive was 500 dollars.

 
At 11/20/2006 6:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

LOL big time!!! I did an intensive decades ago and paid $250 with room and board and the real person there. Now they want $1200 for a stand in with your own room and board? What a trip! I will say I got what I paid for, I don't feel ripped off at all, even after 25 years. I'll have to say, she has lasted a long time. Best wishes to all. Just go with your eyes open and remember your equality with any and everyone else involved INCLUDING THE "GURU".

 
At 12/28/2006 3:18 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've been in Siddha Yoga since 1988. For a couple of years I hung out with the exs -- listened to the nature and content of their complaints and arguments and realized Siddha Yoga is the greatest thing that ever happened in/to my life.

Jaya Gurumayi.

 
At 1/15/2007 2:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you Thank you for this post. I am one of the people constantly searching on Google for news of the disappearing Gurumayi.

Gurumayi has always been a reluctant Guru. I think we all want a Guru to be a 'giving personality,' one who exhibits the compassion that they always promote; with Gurumayi that was never the truth.

Long before the disappearance, in a talk one night, Gurumayi announced that she would be less and less available. I was at that talk. So now I see that the disappearance was planned - at least ten years before it happened. She did not pull the plug abruptly.

I was another talk at the end of one summer where Gurumayi came out and announced that the presence of so many people 'calling out to her' had made her feel very contracted. The swamis worked for days to cover that sentence up and tell us we had heard it wrong.

But please know, that I am also a person who has been fortunate enough to have profound experiences during my time at the ashram and afterward. It is the best thing to acknowledge that the source is within, and whereever a person learns that truth is a great place.

I agree with so many of the observations that the Guru is wholly responsible for how things turned out - SYDA didn't create anything without her knowledge and approval. But I also know that Gurumayi loves to sit back and watch to see just how far something will go before she does make a comment or ask for a change.

It is best to live without a reluctant Guru, but wouldn't it be nice in this very cold world to trust in a Guru's 'protection', have a little bit of divine guidance from time to time and know that you have a solid, never wavering friend on the planet?

For everyone who thought they had these things with Gurumayi, there is probably huge disappointment.

 
At 1/17/2007 3:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I'd go underground too, if I were Gurumayi. How long could she be expected to give so much to so many? For all we know, she could be working on something huge that will come through just in the nick of time. After all, we are in for some huge changes in the next few years, and she has given us alot to imbibe. I saw her gradually dial it back in very subtle and profound ways which was a cue to experience darshan anytime anywhere, and to become less dependant on the outer manifestation. Think about it.

 
At 1/23/2007 2:50 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You people are making yourselves feel miserable. Why don't you think of something positive and uplifting? Why are you so hung up on this topic? Anyway, my experience of SY is that it is a supportive community. True, I've been hurt by some people (managers) who are on power trips - but that happens in every organisation, spiritual or mundane (it has happened to me in the workplace also). My experience of Gurumayi is that she has always given me immense inner unconditional love, of a depth I have not felt from the other spiritual teachers I've met. When I went through really bad times, she gave me a lot of help from the inside. I still feel a strong inner connection with her. Even though it would be nice to still be able to gain external access to her, the fact remains that many true gurus go into seclusion after teaching for some years. She is by no means the only one who has withdrawn or stepped back.

 
At 2/15/2007 5:36 PM, Anonymous Patricia Komoroski said...

Ha ha ha. What a wonderful play of consciousness!
As I read I was amused and amazed at just how long we can hang on to hate, hurt and misunderstanding! Then I read Bhukti's response, and I was delighted and amazed at how long we can hang on to love, hope and understanding. Thank you Bhukti, and all others who expressed their joy.
I also, have been a devotee of Gurumayi's for about, gosh, 16 years now! My life has changed dramatically.For example, I have more honest joy inside (not induced by chemicals,objects, good news, etc., I have more money now than ever, (as I learned to DISCIPLINE myself and not fritter it away), I am in a stable and growing relationship with a good man (something I struggled with for decades before), the relationship with my mother has healed and I was actually able to tell her that I loved her. Hey, these are just a few jewels that I've been given. I could go on for some time. I give credit for this to my years of study and service in Siddha Yoga.
As for Gurumayi pulling the plug. What plug? I have dreams about her still. (she smiles alot in them) I still meditate, or not. I still chant, or not. I read her words, or not. (Gosh, hasn't she already said enough to fill us for centuries?!) Yet, we always want more..that's human nature. How about imbibing and living what she has already said?
Also, I've been to India twice and offered Seva at two eyecamps (I am an operating room nurse) I can attest to the fact that Prasad has done great work in the Tansa valley. So, perhaps the gentleman who wanted to fill a garage with the documents of "proof" Prasad's work can find some peace in my words. My experience in India was so transforming! I went there to give to others and I left feeling that I had been given the greatest gift! The love, devotion, strength and generosity that I witnessed was ...I really can't descibe it. What I have always suggested is that everyone should donate some time to helping others less fortunate. There are many organizations around the world who need volunteers in our less fortunate areas. Go! You won't regret it.
I am sorry that others have not have the experiences I have had. Considering my time spent at South Fallsburg and Ganeshpuri, and talking with "old timers" who were in India during Nitynanda's brief Guruhood, I just have to disagree with this rather scathing indictment of Gurumayi.
Yes, she's beautiful, and yes, our culture worships beautiful people and hounds them to death, but I've never witnessed any action of hers or heard anything said by her that would lead me to believe that she is not sincere. As far as I am concerned she is the Guru and if she wants to be less available to the masses and make the ashram more like traditional ashrams and less like Disneyland well more power to her!
Sad Gurunath Maharaj Ki Jay!!!!

ha ha ha Love to all,
Patricia (Karuna)

 
At 3/08/2007 1:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
I'd go underground too, if I were Gurumayi. How long could she be expected to give so much to so many? For all we know, she could be working on something huge that will come through just in the nick of time. After all, we are in for some huge changes in the next few years, and she has given us alot to imbibe. I saw her gradually dial it back in very subtle and profound ways which was a cue to experience darshan anytime anywhere, and to become less dependant on the outer manifestation. Think about it.

1/17/2007 2:30 PM

--------------

Yes, she may be well working on something big... like keeping herself out of legal harms way for years of lying in regard to tax exempt status and all of the monies taken in by syda; having innocent devotees smuggle goods in and out of the country for her/syda; manipulating those sexually abused by Muk and other syda higher ups, and to remain silent and to be dismissed by the community.

On and on goes the big work of GM... oh, it's all in a days work.

How long could she be expected to take so much from so many and not be discovered? She may find herself on a South Sea island just in the nick of time??? Oh, forgot, global warming... unless she is a good swimmer, which siddhas are known to be good swimmers in the ocean of consciousness, right... well then, cancel the thought, she'll be fine...

 
At 3/08/2007 1:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Patricia (karuna) wrote:
Ha ha ha. What a wonderful play of consciousness!
As I read I was amused and amazed at just how long we can hang on to hate, hurt and misunderstanding! Then I read Bhukti's response, and I was delighted and amazed at how long we can hang on to love, hope and understanding. Thank you Bhukti, and all others who expressed their joy.
I also, have been a devotee of Gurumayi's for about, gosh, 16 years now! My life has changed dramatically.For example, I have more honest joy inside (not induced by chemicals,objects, good news, etc., I have more money now than ever, (as I learned to DISCIPLINE myself and not fritter it away), I am in a stable and growing relationship with a good man (something I struggled with for decades before), the relationship with my mother has healed and I was actually able to tell her that I loved her. Hey, these are just a few jewels that I've been given. I could go on for some time. I give credit for this to my years of study and service in Siddha Yoga.
As for Gurumayi pulling the plug. What plug? I have dreams about her still. (she smiles alot in them) I still meditate, or not. I still chant, or not. I read her words, or not. (Gosh, hasn't she already said enough to fill us for centuries?!) Yet, we always want more..that's human nature. How about imbibing and living what she has already said?
Also, I've been to India twice and offered Seva at two eyecamps (I am an operating room nurse) I can attest to the fact that Prasad has done great work in the Tansa valley. So, perhaps the gentleman who wanted to fill a garage with the documents of "proof" Prasad's work can find some peace in my words. My experience in India was so transforming! I went there to give to others and I left feeling that I had been given the greatest gift! The love, devotion, strength and generosity that I witnessed was ...I really can't descibe it. What I have always suggested is that everyone should donate some time to helping others less fortunate. There are many organizations around the world who need volunteers in our less fortunate areas. Go! You won't regret it.
I am sorry that others have not have the experiences I have had. Considering my time spent at South Fallsburg and Ganeshpuri, and talking with "old timers" who were in India during Nitynanda's brief Guruhood, I just have to disagree with this rather scathing indictment of Gurumayi.
Yes, she's beautiful, and yes, our culture worships beautiful people and hounds them to death, but I've never witnessed any action of hers or heard anything said by her that would lead me to believe that she is not sincere. As far as I am concerned she is the Guru and if she wants to be less available to the masses and make the ashram more like traditional ashrams and less like Disneyland well more power to her!
Sad Gurunath Maharaj Ki Jay!!!!

ha ha ha Love to all,
Patricia (Karuna)

2/15/2007 4:36 PM

---------------------

Well Patricia/karuna,

You bliss bunny you, keep on that bliss high... 16 years and such an evolved POV in regard to all of this. How could anyone not send good wishes your way, knowing how your compassion comes shining through... smile, smile, smile, right P/K?

Don't worry about those females muk, g.a., r.b. and others raped, and GM manipulated into silence over all of these decades. Really, don't give it another thought... we can't have that bliss bunny state interrupted. You just go for it because after all, it was your experience... what more proof could you need, right??? Who cares what happened to others... if you got yours, that's all that need be known.

Such a cosmic vision of compassion

 
At 3/18/2007 5:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jody, you are *completely* out of your mind. Anandamayi Ma is *way* hotter than either Sri Sarada Devi or Gurumayi Chidvilasananda.

 
At 3/18/2007 5:51 PM, Blogger jody said...

Anandamayi Ma is *way* hotter than either Sri Sarada Devi or Gurumayi Chidvilasananda.

Sure... if you have a thing for fatties.

 
At 3/18/2007 6:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Fatty? Huh? Google Image Search

 
At 3/18/2007 7:29 PM, Blogger jody said...

Fatty? Huh?

Heh. What a maroon I am!

I thought you were referring to Amritanandamayi.

While Anandamayi Ma was certainly pretty damn hot, my scale still tips to Sarada Devi. Chalk that up to lineage prejudice.

 
At 3/25/2007 8:23 PM, Anonymous Devotee of Shiva said...

Hi.

Whatever might be the "real case", I still think that all of us have the right, the possibility and the capacity to re-examine and redeem ourselves when the levee breaks... I think the hating should stop, whatever happened. Should compassion really rule or what - even when there are certainly problematic beings in question?

You know, the Buddhist legends are full of stories of demons turning into Guardians of Dharma by direct realization of Truth (by themselves or with help from other beings).

*I think whatever is the case people should at least give her a chance to progress*

And if she keeps on shopping and feeding her ego..... it's still her choice and Nature and Devi will melt that all in due time... if she's not the true Guru then Kali Ma will really come and open the gates. So I advice people not to worry but trust the Cosmos and it's balancing forces.

And this has nothing to do with revenge. I can sense people's hate and of course it is understandable. But it is also disturbing in itself.

I would advice all to calm down and let the Nature take it's course, in the case of her or any other being who has fucked up (as the evidence seems to show).

The primary point is the your own Self and meditation practice, right? Who cares if some organization has gone corrupt or not? Abandon them and FORGET - don't cling to the bad experiences because then you are really stuck and probably unable to continue your meditative practice. If you need an outer guru, go find a real one (they are usually not involved with big organizations or communities but found living a simple life - sometimes people don't even know they are "spiritual"!) - but understand that the real Sat-Guru is the Source, the Real Spring of Vitalizing Water of Amrita that is rising from YOU!

You DON'T need outer leaders.
Some may need them to SHOW the way but that's all. I think all kinds of communities are prone to corruption due to accumulation of unnecessary wealth.

I know this all may sound harsh but I hope some people could catch the deeper tone of my post.

To you all, I hope Peace. Whatever is the "case". Whatever are the "sides".

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti

 
At 3/27/2007 10:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wow...

I've been a devotee of SY for years and I just came across this blog. Unfortunately I found myself morbidly drawn into it without being able to tear myself away, like looking at a car wreck...

So what if it IS all true? Muktananda a rapist. Ram Butler a rapist. Gurumayi a cruel, selfish, greedy, power hungry apologist who wants only to humiliate others and to live in the lap of luxury. Does that invalidate my experiences around SY? The experiences that I continue to have whenever I chant or meditate or even open one of Gurumayi's books, even if she didn't write them? Where does it say that a guru has to be pure? Isn't the real test whether or not I make any spiritual progress around her?

From the beginning, I never searched her out, she found me. Six months before I had ever seen or heard of her, I had an unforgettable dream in which I was in India and she was my tour guide. The dream had many messages that continue to resound for me today. Six months later, I happened to find myself at an SF program and was astounded to recognize the woman from my dream. OOOOOOH! Freaky! But so what, I said to myself, its just a coincidence. She wasn't really the person in my dream; my mind is playing tricks on me. But then, a few months later, while in France, I had a truly astonishing experience. It doesn't do the moment justice to put it into words. All I can say is that it was like the sky opened up and God said, "I'm here." I will never forget it. And for some unknown reason, I felt Gurumayi's spirit had something to do with making it happen.

But then again, maybe not. So back in the States, I returned to the ashram and took the Intensive. $250 was a lot of money but I was curious enough to try. It ended up being the best money I ever spent. I had the most incredible vision of God exploding within my heart and then traveling up through my spine and opening a portal in the top of my head through which I could see millions and millions of stars. As I said before, you can't really put this stuff into words, it only belittles the experience. Doing research later, I discovered that I had had a classic shaktipat experience of the opening of my sahasrara (spelling?). And that wasn't all... I lived in a state of complete bliss for about a week, had astral body travel, the whole nine yards.

But, every time I approached Gurumayi, the person, I got turned off. She was rude, nasty, acted conceited, seemed to fawn over the rich and famous while ignoring everyone else, laughed at weird stuff, and was accompanied by some pretty creepy feeling people. It would dawn on me that I had no idea whatsoever who this woman really was. Yet, bizarrely, through the years I continued to have many profound experiences in the ashram temple or at programs or even in my dreams, and they were all in some way connected to SY and one of the Gurus.

So what to make of this disconnect between my divine experiences and the horrendous gossip around Siddha Yoga and the gurus? The only thing that makes sense to me is that the Guru (the inner Guru, I have no idea if Gurumayi has anything to do with it) is repulsing me on the physical plane in order to encourage me to go inside. Why? Well, for one thing, like most humans, I want to find my jollies in a possession, or a relationship, or in some sort of status—all temporary joys doomed to dissipate over time. And secondly, maybe it was grace: turning me off to the physical Guru forced me to realize that the real Guru was inside my own heart, was, in fact, my very own self.

But what about people who've been hurt by SY? Well, maybe it sounds harsh, but they are responsible for themselves. It's not my job to protect people from evil, and if I try to do so I may interfere with the lesson that they are destined to learn. So, to all the people who feel so used and abused by SY, I have to pose these questions: Why did YOU let it happen? Were you held against your will? Did the organization actually hold a gun to your head and forcibly take your money? Or your time? If the organization and/or Gurumayi has committed crimes, why hasn't someone notified the authorities? And if others are allowing themselves to be duped (just as you were), what is that to you? Don't they all have to learn their own lessons in their own time? Just as you've (supposedly) learned yours.

 
At 3/27/2007 10:11 AM, Blogger jody said...

So what to make of this disconnect between my divine experiences and the horrendous gossip around Siddha Yoga and the gurus?

You prove the case that even bad gurus can be very good for the sincere devotee.

 
At 5/12/2007 5:58 PM, Anonymous Yogini_11 said...

I don't know, folks. I'm a devotee, and there's no question that there's a lot of shakti around GM and that path. I wonder if all the gripers have ever had any kind of spiritual inner experience, ever--on this path or another. The real experience is inside. I didn't have as intense of experiences as the nurse who posted, but I experienced bliss, love, and contentment that were quite different and infinitely more fulfilling and pleasant than my usual state of mind. I lived in the SF ashram for a while and also visited over the years. GM would walk by--not even look at me or notice me--and I could feel my heart expanding; her physical presence would induce an inner, real experience of bliss and love. I even took an Intensive recently and was blissed out afterwards. The power is there.

I wonder if those using "bliss bunny" as a derogatory term have ever experienced inner bliss. Really, it's a wonderful, beautiful state to be in. I've had plenty of hard times in life and I know what it's like to experience the opposite feelings (of dispair, fear, and paranoia), so I value those experiences.

The shakti on the path is real, and I don't think the shakti can or will work through bad people.

 
At 5/12/2007 6:28 PM, Blogger jody said...

I wonder if those using "bliss bunny" as a derogatory term have ever experienced inner bliss. Really, it's a wonderful, beautiful state to be in

But it has as much to do with your truth as the Self as my dog's ass.

Bliss is nice, in a "get away from the problems of life-type" escape. You could also be using drugs to the same effect. But bliss isn't any closer to your truth as the Self as those drug experiences are. Anything you experience is in the context of your false individuality. Just because you believe you got it from your guru doesn't mean it's any more spiritual than taking a dump on the toilet.

I don't think the shakti can or will work through bad people.

The "shakti" is doing every damn thing in the universe, good, bad, whatever. To claim that some things are shakti and some aren't is about the most ignorant statement a shakta can make, in my opinion.

 
At 5/26/2007 10:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I've read a few pages of Jody's words, and most of the responses.

I'd like to offer my most sincere good wishes to all concerned, on both sides of the fence. It strikes me immediately that we are all family, no matter if we love or hate Gurumayi, Baba, Siddha Yoga... We are all family. We are all family. The worst betrayal is when we ourselves forget that. So let's not forget that.

I've looked at these and similar comments and arguments about Siddha Yoga for many years, and I'm always struck by how closed minded we become when we adopt a totally polarized viewpoint along with the unassailable conviction of a "true believer". From what I've seen, Siddha Yoga as well as "ex-Siddha Yoga" has a very high percentage of true believers. First they were true believers in Siddha Yoga's total perfection, later they became true believers in Siddha Yoga's total corruption. The coin flips from good to bad, but the closed-minded fundamentalist thinking stays intact throughout. And there lies the painful trap that I see both sides caught in; first they were in denial of the "bad" within Siddha Yoga, later they flip sides and go into denial of the "good" within Siddha Yoga. Can't we see the blindness inherent in both sides of this extremism?

If you have become disillusioned by Siddha Yoga, then one of the most important lessons you could have come away with is to never again be a "true believer", never blind yourself like this again. But I see so many just changing one blindness for the other. You see, this blindness goes both ways; for every false ivory tower we construct rising to heaven, we build it's mirror reflection pointing down into hell. Reject both sides of this polarity and see that the whole truth is at once much more complex, much more gentle, and much more human. Yes, you will have to throw away some beliefs about the way things are. Those would be the ones that need to go. The way out of the trap of duality is to see the whole. Highly polarized, extremist thinking is a coward's way of avoiding a life-complexity that challenges his/her oversimplified assumptions about the nature of reality.

I've got friends who love and adore Gurumayi, who cannot hear the slightest criticism about Siddha Yoga without instantly bristling. You can almost hear their minds snap shut as they quickly manufacture the flimsiest excuses to repel any assault on their cherished ideal. I can see that their minds are closed tight.

I've got friends who once followed Baba or Gurumayi with devotion and conviction, who had countless spiritual experiences with one or both of them, and who now disavow ever having had even a single pleasant moment in their company, much less a spiritual experience or two. They've re-written history so that now all of their experiences were "happening completely independently of the Gurus", or they were "just imagination", or they were "mass hypnosis" or they "didn't happen at all" -anything but admit that there might have been some tiny glimmer of spiritual energy in Baba or Gurumayi... I can see that these people's minds are also closed tight.

Come on friends, wake up out of this trap! If you now follow Gurumayi, understand that the thousands of people who lived with her for years, who are criticizing her now, have actually got a kernel of truth at the core of their often angry words. And likewise, if you once worshipped but now despise Baba or Gurumayi, then listen to the people who talk of their spiritual experiences, or better yet, remember your own, remember why you did devote yourself for years to that path, remember that there was something going on there above and beyond con-artistry and manipulation. Don't throw away what was genuine in your anger and hurt. Throwing that kind of tantrum only hurts and diminishes you.

Voices on both sides of this issue hold a genuine piece of the truth. A piece! Not the whole. When we go into polarized extremism we lose the whole truth, and we join in some way the same distortion that has people killing each other in the name of God and Truth all over the globe right now. It's the same distortion! Don't be sucked in by that. Don't be duped.

Who am I? I am someone who spent time close to Gurumayi many years ago. I am also someone just like you, whichever side of the fence you are on. I have been on both sides of the fence, and I found them both to be false. I found that my mind wanted to build a fence where there was no fence, out of fear.

Here are some random examples of what I know to be true from my own personal experience with Siddha Yoga:

-when I was on tour with Gurumayi back in the mid to late '80s, she gradually decreased the amount of money I had to pay, until the ashram was paying my way almost completely. I didn't ask to pay less. Gurumayi volunteered that I pay less. She got absolutely nothing in return for this act of selfless generosity. I happen to know that she gave scholarships to lots of people who wanted to participate but didn't have the money to pay for it. Often these people were just unskilled shlubs like me who offered no significant seva to the ashram in return. She did this without making a big show of it.

-In Siddha Yoga there is a knowing PR campaign to constantly portray Gurumayi as some kind of supernaturally "perfected master", while her real, very human and often flawed behavior is deliberately hidden so as not to allow people to realize that Gurumayi is actually a human woman.

-I've had Gurumayi look at me not only with more love than my mother, father, any girlfriend, Guru or anyone else ever has, but with more love than I had ever thought possible for any human being to ever experience, much less show to another. I was completely devastated by the depth and unconditional nature of that love pouring out of her eyes, and I could see that she was also totally devastated by that same limitless love pouring through her. She was as helpless as a leaf blown by a hurricane in the face of that... at least in that moment.

-I've seen Gurumayi suddenly lose her temper at someone and unleash such a mean-spirited tirade of personally humiliating comments about his physical appearance in front of a lot of people, that it literally took my breath away. My experience was that this was not the "tough love" of a "perfected master" "busting the ego" of a beloved disciple. This was Gurumayi completely losing her ground and her center, acting like a spoiled, selfish queen, and unleashing cruelly on a meek devotee who was trying his best to serve her. Everyone in the room froze when it happened, and I believe everyone's humanity was diminished in that moment by Gurumayi's behavior. Gurumayi immediately acted guilty for her outburst and then became defensive and began arrogantly justifying her behavior by further criticising this same guy. That guy seemed crushed for weeks after that...

-In the presence of Gurumayi during a chant, immediately after praying to her for a breakthrough, I had the experience of having my body-based identity suddenly dissolve into an infinite ocean of invisible-yet-sparkling consciousness which seemed primarily composed of unconditional and infinite love, non-conceptual omniscience and omnipresence. I didn't merely witness this consciousness, I WAS this consciousness. I knew that I was what the word "God" pointed to; that I was the divine center of all things, and that this had always been the case and always would be. All infinite beings in the universe were known and loved completely, tenderly, and infinitely by me. In fact, not loving was actually not an option, because my very being was made up of pure love itself. Love was my "body" so to speak, and it was not possible to be anything other than complete and total love under any circumstance. I saw that the whole universe was perfect and was my own form. I don't know where my earthly body was during this experience. Later, when the chant ended, I was in my earthly body again, and I opened my eyes and looked about the meditation hall, still partly in that state of God-consciousness, I saw that out of the hundreds of people moving about the hall, there was one single person who's physical movements were somehow moving in complete harmony and tandem with mine, as if we two alone were dancing to a music that no one else could hear. That other person was Gurumayi. When I got face to face with her in darshan line, we looked into each other eyes... what was communicated then can't be written here... So. This experience was not psychosis (if it was then may I go completely psycho! forever! please!) it was not imagination (this was one of the few moments of my life that was NOT imagination) and it did not happen independently of Gurumayi. In fact she was intimately a part of that experience in ways that can't be expressed very well in words. If you are an ex-Siddha Yogi, let this in. Have the courage to let this in... Don't try to rearrange the truth. Let the truth rearrange you. (FYI. the next morning I awoke as a human being again. Darnit!)

-I know for a fact that a young woman who went to Gurumayi for refuge when an ashram manager sexually assaulted her, was told by Gurumayi that it was her fault and to leave the ashram. The ashram manager in question was many years later also asked to leave the ashram when his latest underage sexual assault went public, but in the meantime he had assaulted more innocent young girls, including both of the underage sisters of a close friend of mine. I've seen the pain in this friend's eyes, and it is real, and it is justified. We can't go into denial about this pain in my friends eyes. We can't just write it off. These are human hearts we are talking about here, after all. These are sacred temples we are desecrating with these actions. Gurumayi knew what this sexual predator was doing, and she allowed it to happen for years, and that is just wrong. That is a failure to act responsibly. It is a betrayal of trust, and anyone who tries to spiritualize and excuse this abuse and neglect on the part of Gurumayi need only ask themselves honestly this question: What if it had been your 15 year old sister who was coerced into giving her virginity to this man, Gurumayi's top manager, who she had instructed us all to listen to and obey without question? What if it had been your 15 year old daughter who had been the virgin of the month for this guy? What if it had been your mother, when she was a child of 15, that had fallen prey to this user of innocent girls? Is this what we go to a Siddha Guru for? So she will let her top manager fuck our young girls and then lie and hide it like the Catholic church does? If you are a follower of Gurumayi, don't run from this. Let it in. Have the courage to face this. Don't try to rearrange the truth. Let the truth rearrange you.

-I've had countless, literally countless amazing, positive, spiritual experiences with Gurumayi. Too many to list fully. Here's a few: She's read my mind (so many times it was just the norm.) She's literally switched off my mind by tapping my shoulder with a cane -my ability to form thoughts completely vanished no matter how hard i was trying to form them. Her consciousness has entered my body while I was performing arati to her, and through my body she chanted arati to herself (it's weird, I know!) Once when she touched her fingers to my forehead my whole body instantly exploded into a physical ecstasy beyond anything I'd ever experienced, as if each individual cell of my body were having a full orgasm, all at once. Another time she touched my head a wave of heat descended into my body. She's given me a glance and it felt like something physical inside of my chest moved, and then my heart opened and I felt suffused by a wave of gentle love. She's exhibited knowledge of, or been a partner in, many "transcendental" experiences. Experiences that have caused permanent positive changes to my personality and my life. As far as the other Gurus of Siddha Yoga are concerned: One of Muktananda's pictures once literally spoke to me, lovingly, when I was mentally speaking to it, telling Baba how low and unworthy I was compared to him. His voice responded so gently, "We are one." Also, Bagawan Nityananda physically materialized to me in the gardens of Ganeshpuri, complete with loincloth and a really nice, sparkly blue aura. This was of course, long after his physical "death."

To those people who say that Gurumayi is just and only a con artist, I say bullshit.
To those people who say that Gurumayi is just and only a perfect "Siddha Master" I say bullshit.

Sorry, but the truth just isn't as simple as you want it to be.

My advice to those on both sides of the fence: Reject polarized extremist thinking, it doesn't suit you. You are bigger than that. Be willing to allow the seemingly impossible paradoxes of Siddha Yoga, and admit for the time being that we may not know what the fuck is going on there! Lets let this not-knowing work in our guts a bit, let it deepen us, let it dredge our souls... This process may not be comfortable, but in the end we will find that knowing why isn't really as important to us as learning how to love and surrender without giving ourselves away, and that, I believe, is the real lesson that Gurumayi has offered so many of us, and it is the real issue behind the anger of so many exSiddha Yogis. With this we will find that the truth is much gentler, more complex and more human than we ever imagined. With this realization we will recover a piece of our humanity that we may not have realized had been missing, and with this we will see other people with all the amazing spectrum that they do embody. And we will find love for these beautiful, divine, flawed humans... love and forgiveness... even for our gods and our monsters.

My personal opinion is that Gurumayi has "lost the state", in the same way that Siddha Yoga used to talk about her younger brother losing his "state" during his downfall and subsequent ejection from Siddha Yoga. I think Gurumayi has "fallen" from the state she was in twenty years ago. When I look into the eyes of her recent photos, I see something very different from the pictures of 20 years ago. Look for yourself, it is plain to see. I see that she has lost touch, to some degree, with that high state of consciousness that she was strongly in touch with back then. At the same time, I percieve in Gurumayi an incredibly beautiful and deep heart. I also believe that she has an incredible depth of spiritual knowledge under her belt which should not be underestimated. At the same time, I don't think she's perfect. I think she's a human being like the rest of us, and this means: not perfect. Consciousness is perfect. Human beings are necessarily not. Gurumayi may have been embodying perfect consciousness to a high degree at one time, but I think she no longer does. That's just my opinion. I trust it, but you don't have to. Take it as information. When I tune into Gurumayi these days I find a deep sadness and loneliness. It touches me deeply, and I send my love to her. I wish she could know that it doesn't have to be so lonely for her, that she could drop this whole charade and just be herself, but I'm not sure she can hear that right now. I know how that is. Believe it our not, I've been in the same place, once upon a time. In the meantime I will not wait for Gurumayi to realize anything or admit to anything. I will take responsibility for myself and my own experience. I send her my love and I wish healing for her and for everyone who has been blessed, and wounded in their experience in Siddha Yoga. Welcome to the earth. Welcome to the spiritual path.

Let's all have patience with one another.

Peace and love to you all.
"Andy"

 
At 6/14/2007 11:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:
It strikes me immediately that we are all family, no matter if we love or hate Gurumayi, Baba, Siddha Yoga... We are all family. We are all family. The worst betrayal is when we ourselves forget that. So let's not forget that.

-------------

What context do you use for referring to family? In example, do you refer to the notion of Adam and Eve, or something else? Are you saying SY devotees (present and former) are a family? If so, what do you base such a thought process on?

 
At 6/14/2007 11:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous wrote:
But what about people who've been hurt by SY? Well, maybe it sounds harsh, but they are responsible for themselves. It's not my job to protect people from evil, and if I try to do so I may interfere with the lesson that they are destined to learn. So, to all the people who feel so used and abused by SY, I have to pose these questions: Why did YOU let it happen? Were you held against your will? Did the organization actually hold a gun to your head and forcibly take your money? Or your time? If the organization and/or Gurumayi has committed crimes, why hasn't someone notified the authorities? And if others are allowing themselves to be duped (just as you were), what is that to you? Don't they all have to learn their own lessons in their own time? Just as you've (supposedly) learned yours.



Thank you for the above words. I have friends who were deeply entrenched in SY for years (decades). I could not get them to wake up to the abyss of a wasted lifetime, if they did not begin to further question their blind devotion to a cult with its leadership. What I have been unable to do in numerous years of conversation you were able to accomplish in publishing what you did. It opened their eyes to the reality of falling over the cliff of lost reasoning and humanity at the expense of trying to hold on to some form of spiritual vision, or whatever it is you think you are learning.

Indeed, this has caused others to learn what they do not wish to imbibe or fall further chance of becoming.

 
At 6/24/2007 9:53 AM, Anonymous h said...

Thank you, Andy, for your well-wrougt comments.

I am a disciple of Gurumayi. I am sitting here on her birthday celebrating by deeply considering my relationship with "her" - a relationship which has been deeply altered over the past few years.

I have spent multiple years in SY ashrams, have served in upper tiers of the SYDA foundation and have been privy to the "Behind the Scenes" side of Siddha Yoga's recent sea change. Now I like so many others am "cut off" from her- unable to visit or connect with her personally. Feeling sometimes pissed off, sometimes betrayed, sometimes just bored, but mostly really grateful.

I know as I write this that this is coming out sounding deeply brainwashed- but here goes: When I read the very negative postings about Gurumayi, I can usually identify the behaviour or situations described. I can also indentify in the tone a profound sense of betrayal. Having suffered a few lumps of my own at the hands of the foundation, I can understand the profound hurt and anger. At the same time- I cannot deny the inner gifts that this path has bestowed on me.

Part of me almost wants to say "What did you expect?" Anyone who signs up for a date with a Guru better be ready for a bumpy ride.

Our Ego wants the Guru to be an ordering principle. It's the same part of us that wants to believe in a God that is anti-cancer or who wants to elliminate war or Bush or global warming. We want the Divine to be the silver lining to the cloud of the world. In my experience it doesn't work that way.

(I assume that people reading this are somehow "on the path" so I feel at liberty to offer this kind of perspective.)

For sure- the SY machine has done a great deal to increase this dellusion about the holy vision of the Guru. Especially with a buttoned-down perfectionist Guru like Gurumayi. We tried for so many years to protray her as a "living saint" which I believe she is. The "saint" word was interpreted (naturaly) through the western lens of the Catholic, no shadow saint.

The Eastern notion of saint isn't about light shining from every orifice. The saint in the Indo-asian paradigm is the one who has broken through and attained the ability to percieve the divine in everything. The saint in this paradigm is the one who can help you crack open your polarized, stuck vision and experience God within on a level beyond the mind.

Often the saints in this tradtion are deeply flawed, weird and even sometimes "pathological".

Getting a hug from or hanging a benevolent photo of one of these characters is one thing. Entering into a discipleship with one is another ball of wax. When the saint becomes the Guru in your life, the game changes.

The truth is and always was that the Guru is not an ordering principle- the Guru is the opposite. The whole role of the guru is break things- to dissolve them.

The Guru is an interruption in the flow of your life. As one contemporary Tibetan master said "the Guru is the person you hire to assassinate you". It is a dangerous business. I am not an apologist of the nasty stuff that has happened around Gurumayi. A lot of it is beyond excuse and some of the allegations are just rubbish.
Like anything written on the internet- including my post- some of it is true, some is crap. Most of it is coming through the lens of our feelings and the extremist, polarized vision Andy described.

Like it or not, enjoy it or not, understand it or not, I have signed up for this thing. She is my Guru and through her -and more so through my relationship with her- "I" am getting thinner. Every day I stay with her and open myself to the fire of our relationship, the more "I" wane and the more pure Love shows up.
It isn't pretty. But I wouldn't trade it for anything- not even being right.

 
At 6/27/2007 12:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Guru is an interruption in the flow of your life. As one contemporary Tibetan master said "the Guru is the person you hire to assassinate you". It is a dangerous business. I am not an apologist of the nasty stuff that has happened around Gurumayi. A lot of it is beyond excuse and some of the allegations are just rubbish.
Like anything written on the internet- including my post- some of it is true, some is crap. Most of it is coming through the lens of our feelings and the extremist, polarized vision Andy described.

**********

Cognitive dissonance is a powerful result of too much time spent in a cult such as SY. The mind and its thoughts have been played in so many ways, to feed both ends of any rational discussion toward the middle, where discrimination of thought becomes a casuality.

It can takes years of being outside of such a cult environment or influence, to even begin to see how the mind and thought process have been compromised.

 
At 7/28/2007 7:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you Andy and H for your great comments.

I began SY in 1992. Right at the beginning my previous teacher, Marshall Govindan, warned me regarding Baba and all the stories. So I stop for one month but resumed for the experiences. I was craving for them.

In 1997 I started dreaming of a woman, recurrent dreams. Then I met her in 1999 and it was such an intense experience. I felt my inner shakti jumping on her from my belly. It was an inner sensation. Very strange. With her I got access of some previous past lifes I had with her. I know now how those memories are stacked up.

Just before I met her I got an overdose of Shakti from to much intensives and courses during the summer 1999. So my body was so exhausted. I stayed home for one month, only sleeping and lying on the sofa. And I became insomniac for the next 7 years. Very deep insomnia. I was sleeping like one night or two each week; and no more than 4 hours a night. I never had any help from G, Baba or BBaba. Because of the insomnia I broke up and one month later I lost my job so I went to SF ashram for one year on staff. It was the last year before it closed. I was devastated because I was in pain, alone, without money and sleep.

I didn't like ashram live. I was looking for a breaktrough. My mind was terrible and I began to read more on the dark side of sy with an other devotee there. I began to realise that was really bad. I was ready to live the ashram; not only because of that but also because living at the ashram was really boring.

On G'birthday the other devotee and I had the same weird experience together: I felt a subtle energy going down my body. That was sy rolling out of me! I thought: God, I am flushed!! I was so exhausted I was close to die. Just before I woke up the day I was leaving I had a dream: G told me: You are living? I was very upset and I answered How do you know that you? I was upset because during the year I was there I had the feeling I was no more important for her than a shit on wall. I was also upset because I couldn't figure out how to match the dark side of sy with the love we receive.

When I came back home I considered myself and ex devotee. But I was still having very sweet loving dreams. I was to tired to do any spiritual pratices. I just wanted the shakti to get out of my body. I knew it was because of the shakti I couln't sleep.

I got a new job and little by little I began to drink with bad company. The nice dreams disappeared little by little also and were replaced by nightmares like a lot of care accidents?! Gurumayi and Bade Baba disappeared of my dreams...and my sleep was back...little by little. It took me 2 years to recover sleep.

My connection with the path was almost dead. And something was missing, the light. The light was gone. I realised I lost a very great state. I worked hard during my sadhana to attain that state. And I realised I was really engaged in the way down. So one day I spent a night in Shivananda ashram and when I came back I decided to have a one week retreat by myself. The fouth day I sat on my asana for meditation and G was there at my left. Closed eyes I was feeling her presence and subtil body. When I woke up during the night my heart was so opened with her's. I was amazed and so surprised. It was not my heart I felt but the heart of my heart if I can say that. In a snap of her fingers she gave me the state back, easy meditation, and great dreams. Her touch also gave me inspiration and creativity to redecorate my appartement. The connection with the beauty...

I understand her love is chasing me! Whatever I could do I feel the deep connection will always be there; it's just I'm not always aware of it. That's sad.

My story is just a story among thousand. But since I came on this site I have the feeling to be part of a familly. SY familly. I have the feeling we have a satsang here.

Next time I will like to share what I understand of the dark side.

Love.

 
At 8/01/2007 1:53 AM, Anonymous Matt Dahlgren said...

Hi all-

I've spent a while tonight reading everyone's comments and am fascinated. I grew up in SYDA since 1976, visiting Baba in India in '78 when I was 4 and basically spending every summer with him or GM until the mid 90's. I've seen some crazy stuff over the years, all told...but the feeling within as I read it kept saying the same thing - it is possible to be uplifted by Siddha Yoga. I was there for over 30 years...and I never once saw any sexual abuse. I saw the management make mistakes...I saw George Afif abuse children during seva... I saw people in the 70's having kriyas where the shakti was fighting against the LSD in their system so hard the staff had to bring people out on the lawn to convulse there for a while. I saw someone pull a gun on Baba one time...but the basic experience is one of love. I sympathize with people who were abused by Baba..but can't relate, since he never abused me. On the contrary, he used to hold me in his arms, give me chocolates, and let me ride in his golf cart. I never liked the 'secret walls' and the secrecy of the swami quarters and Gurumay's house...but later realized it might be necessary since nutty people break in to her house all the time anyway. The poor thing comes back from being out and some psycho devotee is sitting on her bed. How would you like it at the end of the day? My point is that even with all the craziness, and pain, and ego flying around...the ashram is still a place one can go to have some peace... the temples are always still and beautiful. The hearts of true lovers of God, not just GM, Baba, etc...are there in abundance.
To someone who arrives there, there is a feeling of welcoming, of kindess, of love... People might say about this blog, poor bastard he grew up in it and doesn't know how deluded he is. Well, I'm here to tell you, there were times in my life the the ashram provided such a
sanctuary of peace and love that I cannot completely disparage it. When I prayed to Gurumayi, that I really needed to talk to her, she would come to me. When I play my guitar with all my love (that's what I do), if I do it as a feeling of offering of my God-given talent back to God, blue pearls shoot through my eyeballs out into the audience. Are you telling me that that's BS? That I'm hallucinating? That they put drugs in the food? NO. I'm saying can we please focus a little bit on some positives? It's not a perfect path or religion...what is? There are no 'perfect' gurus in the world, or perfect organizations either. If people were hurt and abused, they have a right to be pissed off. I'm saying that I was there for 31 years and most of the time it was great. Lots of nice people, clean atmosphere, good energy, good food... Let's just not forget that as much shit as you want to sling around, IF you keep your sense of self and don't give it away, you can have an uplifting experience in Siddha Yoga. I'm not talking about the intensives, and money donating,
and political struggles, and George Afif banging all the young hotties he can find. I'm talking about the everyday experience of the ashram..peaceful, gentle, beautiful. For Baba to make such a place in the world was great. For Gurumayi to continue his vision is great. I've been to many different paths in my life...met Ammachi, Vishwananda, buddhist temples, born again Christian churches, Catholic churches, you name it. I have yet to find an environment that was as conducive to meditation as the caves in Ganeshpuri or Fallsburg.
I'll stop rambling now..my point is that thru all the crap everyone is spewing, SYDA was not such a bad place to hang. I certainly met some great people, learned to meditate, and never got fondled. OK? And another thing, anybody who uses the ID 'anonymous' and then vents his shit is a pussy. Let us all see who you are..if you're so righteous with the truth why are you afraid to identify yourself? Anyone who wishes to discuss can email me at matt@skylgt.com . Funny, I'm not really trying to defend SYDA...I'm just trying to add some perspective. I grew up in it, and so far, I've never been in jail. Never killed anyone. Never been sexually molested. Never declared bankruptcy. Never did drugs or smoked or drank. I'm pretty happy.
Baba was nice to me. So was Gurumayi. Both of them have the same message to the world - Remember your own divinity. Thank you Baba and Gurumayi for all the effort you put in building a peaceful place in this messed up planet. Thank you Gurumayi for sitting in your chair in the Mandap in the 80's, from 11 AM till midnight, without moving, all out of love for us. You did it out of LOVE for humanity. So everybody CHILL ALREADY.

 
At 8/01/2007 10:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Baba was nice to me. So was Gurumayi. Both of them have the same message to the world - Remember your own divinity. Thank you Baba and Gurumayi for all the effort you put in building a peaceful place in this messed up planet. Thank you Gurumayi for sitting in your chair in the Mandap in the 80's, from 11 AM till midnight, without moving, all out of love for us. You did it out of LOVE for humanity. So everybody CHILL ALREADY.

8/01/2007 12:53 AM



The brain of someone who has been on a cult is transparent. It weaves and dodges beyond belief, to try to make sense, make right (hopefully somehow it hopes), to still hang on, and beable to tell people to "CHILL".

Having once been in a cult, I can watch and appreciate the twists and turns the mind makes, kinking at most junctures, to try to make the story read OK.

It was not until I got out and did a lot of work, introspection, breaking down brick by brick, the beliefs, etc., that I could see that my brain had been on a cult.

That option is always available.

 
At 8/06/2007 4:38 PM, Anonymous Matt Dahlgren said...

Here's my reply to Mr. anonymous (wimp) - Yes I will agree SYDA is a cult...just like Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Wicca, and all the other paths one can take to one's personal truth. Thank you for bearing with my kinky, cult - ridden mind. So I guess I have no objective analyis skills, no sanity left? Grow some balls and identify yourself if you're going to say how sad my condition is. If it makes you feel any better, remember that I don't align myself solely with any particular saint or path...I was just saying I never had much trouble with SYDA. It was a clean, quiet, peaceful place to grow up.
You sound like someone who sadly gave their sense of self away in a cult, and had to fight to get your self back. I'm glad you're better now. Please don't talk down to me like I'm still 'lost' or 'confused'. It's been my experience that people who suffered so much and left so angry never had much of a sense of identity to begin with... I'm glad your therapy helped. If you're going to be patronizing, at least have the balls to identify yourself. You're too scared of everyone to even be real, so why should anyone read any thing you say? I hope today you enjoyed the twists and turns of my diseased, broken cult mind. God help you.

 
At 8/08/2007 1:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it makes you feel any better, remember that I don't align myself solely with any particular saint or path...I was just saying I never had much trouble with SYDA. It was a clean, quiet, peaceful place to grow up.
You sound like someone who sadly gave their sense of self away in a cult, and had to fight to get your self back. I'm glad you're better now. Please don't talk down to me like I'm still 'lost' or 'confused'. It's been my experience that people who suffered so much and left so angry never had much of a sense of identity to begin with... I'm glad your therapy helped. If you're going to be patronizing, at least have the balls to identify yourself. You're too scared of everyone to even be real, so why should anyone read any thing you say? I hope today you enjoyed the twists and turns of my diseased, broken cult mind. God help you.



The anger of your reply offers a different perspective to consider than SY being a place of "I never had much trouble with SYDA. It was a clean, quiet, peaceful place to grow up." Or maybe it's something later in life that has caused such an upheaveal, possibly unresolved issues of SY as a "a clean, quiet, peaceful place to grow up", and the reality that it was anything but this for others.

The secret life of the gurus going on behind closed doors, unholy curtains for its perverted leader to secretly screen for the next innocent female victim he'd sexually abuse after a public program.

Unresolved conflict from cult involvement can indeed leave a space of anger. Also recognizing that a personality formed within such a cult environment, may not have a point of reference in the outer world to gather a sense of normalcy in conduct of the cult's leadership and their dysfunction.

A child only knows the norm which they are surrounded with. That is the reference point of imprint.

 
At 8/19/2007 12:00 PM, Blogger joan said...

I debated about siddha yoga and the guru idea. …explored the pro’s and cons. ...read the tireless postings of the "Leaving" group (sounded like the church of the eternally victimized / “misery loves company club”) I bought 2 books from the siddha collection. excellent! The books are plenty; glad I wasn't exposed to the hoopla you described. I was taken by the boldness of the swami's hutspa, and 'let em find it within' attitude. It speaks volumes about where her priorities are. As for the ‘leaving sy club, seems like they just want to knaw on flesh – stuck.

 
At 8/19/2007 12:12 PM, Blogger joan said...

Couldn't resist reading some of these posts. What do the opponents of sy have to offer? An ongoing immersion in tirade, reactivity and hatred? Why not just get the sopranos on netflix and settle in with a bag of popcorn.

 
At 8/20/2007 12:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Couldn't resist reading some of these posts. What do the opponents of sy have to offer? An ongoing immersion in tirade, reactivity and hatred? Why not just get the sopranos on netflix and settle in with a bag of popcorn.


Been expecting the next phase of trolls. Who let the dogs out? When desperate, let the dogs out.

Yawn.

 
At 9/22/2007 5:57 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

from Kristal McKinstry.

Someone here posted a great accurate quote '...one contemporary Tibetan master said "the Guru is the person you hire to assassinate you"'.

I was in Syda Yoga for about three months back in 1989. Within three weeks I had a shakti-pat awakening which began my journey through several dimensions over the past 18 years. Eventually I did a few remote awakenings of others myself until I realized that, in terms of earthly experience, the drama of consiousness, I was essentially killing them, and that really only a few enlightened persons are required to keep the game interesting, to propogate the game of god finding god, a rapid final curtain, merely intensifying experience to cosmic proportions at the cost of dulling the senses to mundane matters, excepting to the extent which they are reflections of grander matters. For that matter I had developed grand and diverse siddhis, stirring global weather, social, artistic, and political events. When I needed an object, opportunity, or liason, it just appeared. It was most unnerving when unintended, I couldn't rehearse the words for a play, words of death and fireworks, without it happening at my fingertips on a city wide scale. I backed off a bit since then, and no longer grant things like rain in Australia on a days notice just to sway a non-believer.

I never met Guru Mayi personally. At my very first sat-sang, meditating and chanting, I left my body for the first time. I fell in deep devotion to GM. She was in my eyes, the perfect being, and I wanted a divine marriage with her (this was before my sex change). To be sure, I was dubious; I cringed as my co-worker, who invited me there, was touching the swami's Jaguars at the Oakland ashram to absorb some shakti. After my second sat-sang I fell asleep on the couch studying for finals, and awoke in a state of paralysis with a golden magnetism climbing my spine to the crown of my head. I had some visions of Fuji cherry fields and was in some tunnel of banshee spirits. I was at perfect peace though, knowing that when the force reached my crown, I would be dead. Mortal consciousness kicked in though, aghast at the idea of dying in any fashion whatsover. When I visited the ashram and approached the swamis, they answered, before I could utter a word of my question, that I had visited what the buddhists call the void.

I couldn't afford any weekend intensives (a matter over which I might join with GM's malcontents) but was told I could get closer in spirit to GM by doing service (God finds a way for those ready). Off to Carmel,CA I went to wash dishes. Already, these three weeks, omens and words were lining up with my constant contemplative thoughts, and events were suggesting to me that there was a huge conspiracy of yogis involved even in the lyrics of the Talking Heads and the Eurythmics. People far upwind of me would cough when I smoked. Resting that Saturday night, it seemed that everyone must be telepathic, and were describing my upcoming divine marriage to GM. On Sunday, serving cookies and drinks to those at the intensive, I was fortunate to catch a video of GM describing the Spanda Karikas, the phenomena I was in the midst of experiencing.

I plunged in so deeply after that that for the next three years individual people seldom existed. It had all merged in to a single voice that my quiet mind was always conversing with. I no longer watched tv shows with attachment to conclusions because I was listening on a higher level which was answering my immediate questions and suggesting new meditation practices.

I did in a sense have the carpet pulled from under me time and time again. I asked if the unified voice was Guru Mayi or Christ, and it said either name would work. As my co-worker put it, the honeymoon was over. God was now to be found everywhere and marriage to a divine physical dream girl was irrelevant. I think of GM as a carrot, god's dirty trick to lure me in like a moth to the burning light. That was the biggest let down, but anyone, especially the spiritual leaders I looked to later in times of trouble, did a shocking 180º on me the moment I counted on them most. I take it to be a rule of thumb now.

I know now through my own experience the gist of what Guru Mayi is about. I know what it is to quietly look someone in the eye with deep love, someone who was just bent on harming you, and have them drop to their knees with tears of grateful love chanting "bless you". I too like to go shopping for a delightful hat. I too have had my share of Muktananda's temptations. On the plane that I suspect most high syda practioners are familiar with, there is a mechanism of proving your faith in the divine, seeing nothing but god, and leaving behind all mortal understandings of what is happening. There are people who can and do lecture much better than me on the connection between mystical revelation and sexual taboo. I had to break the rules constantly. The voice would suggest I ditch class and visit my boss across town instead. He would have a check I'd been waiting three weeks for, and it turned out later that class had been cancelled anyhow. It was most challenging to ignore the mortals and reply vocally to what I was hearing through them on high, though my responses on one plane conflicted with those on another. Fortunately there are many other more pleasant planes to live on as well. If you're in synch, you can dismiss the mortal plane, respond vocally, and things will still work out miraculously. The lesson is that it's always God there. My suicidal period ended when I found that I didn't have to abandon mortal participation for God, but rather could channel god for divine aid in the mortal activities I loved, like sculpture. Eventually I found even more direct ways of channeling than higher levels of language interpretation, and for instance, upon a prayer request, went from barely playing a scale to becoming a cello virtuoso in five minutes, granted though, it took some years to get from playing Saraswati veena ragas to the sort of music I actually listened to (though I could still at least instantly accompany anything in any genre).

Guru Mayi is the embodiment of a force on a particular wavelength. At times I feel this warm wafting tingling pink-orange energy of love, and I know I will find a photo of her somewhere on the premises. I can't imagine being near her and not feeling it. In my circle though, we recognize each other at a glance, feel our identifying frequency, get some telepathic hookup, catch the signature of each others temple incense.

Even Christ was human. I had a first hand vision of the resurrection an hour before the WTC was hit. In this vision my chest had been quartered open at Pilate's mansion while some sort of raid took place. Then I was in a sunny sandstone canyon cave with devotees perfuming my feet, too nearly dead to assist them in their confident loving pleas, or even lift an eyelid, while a teenage lute player came in on a stretcher and I realized that I had started a holy war. I had been busy teaching to transcend the physical, but seeing the love of my devotees, and magnetically being all the city I was conscious of, I realized that the physical plane was where heaven was meant to be, and my final silent words were "Forgive what I have become". At that moment, a swirling rainbow force {one I am familiar with in real life, like a Sliders/Star-Trek wormhole, conscious zen particle matter, hologram reality, Crowley meditation, time/space particle stream} rebuilt my body. I awoke from that vision with great tears and turned on the radio to channel more knowledge of it, just in time to hear a report of the first tower being hit. This was hugely significant to me because (minus the deaths), it not only mirrored events at the time of Christ's crucifixion, but was also the climax of prayer plans I'd been discussing with spirit to transform the planet for three weeks. The outcome of that event plays the largest part in my stepping down from such spiritual affairs, although I did put in a last minute course change for Hurricane Katrina. Things were going to be much worse. National oil karma had much to do with that original plan, that, and Roberts suggesting just a week earlier that we hit Venezuela with such a prayed hurricane for sitting on 'our' oil.

So yeah, Guru Mayi is going through way more than a video camera could ever catch. Even if she were to retreat in sleep, the same ethernet activity is going on, worldly events, people trying to reach her for awakening and assistance. Eventually I found myself on the other end of that banshee tunnel, with lost souls coming to me, though honestly I didn't have a clue what to do for them as she does, I'm sure.

People mostly live in their own existential universes. I've seen angels depicted clearly in the clouds, while someone else in the group with a different karma is busy watching their boots step in cow pies and missing the whole show; so I guess it's possible to be at GM's side and still miss what's going on. As to relying on her (though we all wanted to), she warned us not to. I warn every one not to count on me for a thing. I follow divine instructions which could pull me away at the last instant from something I planned all year. Even my ability to channel vanishes the instant my ego counts on it, and the radio suddenly switches to Spanish.

I do believe whole-heartedly that she was as fine a Guru as ever was. She seems to live on heart-ray, didn't indulge in ego intrigues like teleporting (I still attempt that one wihout success. I did reverse the direction of magnetic North in my apartment in my attempt though, and show that off to awake guests with pride). You have to realize what gurus are. They are mortal people who can connect with the omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient mind of God (The akashic records, revisiting things like the building of the pyramids is a cool perk, as is spying on the minds of people putting the world at war). But they are still people. The range of human emotions and concerns is still generally there. Having had that connection does of course bring on some vast changes. For instance you need never fear. If something goes awry, you can usually step behind the scenes and rewrite the outcome of the script. If that fails, having seen that there is nothing but eternal God here, there is still nothing to fear. Even the angelic ego turned out to be a delusion, freewill and predestiny and divine will are one, all in God's control, all merging back in to God, and becoming whatever God wants to experience next. If anything, the challenge for a guru is finding purpose in temporal physical activities (shopping for hats is cool). Knowing that God is about eternal experience can remedy that too though, and so we seek joy and compassion in all we do, doing unto our world as is our self. This feast before us is our blood and flesh.

It looks like another cycle is quickly closing on us. Nanotechnology, virulent intelligent transformational matter lies on the horizon, resembling kabbalistic texts on propogating golums from sand or water with a seed of thought. Distant sub-atomic particles are now seen operate in tandem, suggesting that all atoms are kaleidoscopic facets of the same bindi seed (when they aren't blinking in and out of existence on a whim entirely). When people realize that the speed of light is time and time is localised elastic conciousness, e=mc^2 implies the big bang and the unified field theory. Even without that awareness, conservation of matter/energy over eternity implies, in recombinant DNA fashion, that any universe which could briefly exist as a molecular configuration (billion mile conscious space worms teleporting to rectangular galaxies), eventually will exist. Nothing is far out, by spiritual or scientific reckoning.

What Guru Mayi taught of our mystical role in cosmology, the Spanda Karikas, has been taught in the Book of the Dead, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as the Kabbalah, the Trinity, the Delphic Oracle, in the Lotus Sutras, as the Tao. If you look at her as a social, religious, political, or celebrity phenomenon, you are missing the point, which is our divine nature in the cosmic creation perception loop. If you seek social ethics, though her karmic awareness naturally contrains her to be an example anyhow, look elsewhere. Her mission is to teach unity with the divine. If you look around, realizing nothing could exist outside of God, you realize that God is isn't omnibenificent in the immediate mortal context, although pockets of divine telepathic satori heaven-on-earth do exist for times when people gather in the right timing of preparedness.

The proof of her capacity as a shakti-pat guru lies in my own experience. You are elsewhere in your own world-view of reality on the internet and can easily dismiss my experience, but I can not. To go from agnosticism to believing someone can change the weather or remotely awaken someone to their divine presence takes a huge leap of faith, the sort I once took myself. I can rely on empirical evidence now, but that first leap is necessary because we create our own universe. You have to believe to create it, then, you can see that it is as clearly as much a system of cause and effect as the plane of reality left behind (though the causes are archetypal narrative energy forces, and not the epiphenomenalistic temporal molecular collusions which aetheist attributes life's events to).

Though you may have never known of me, Thank you Guru Mayi Chidvilasananda for being the divine instrument of change in my life.

Why people would invest their passion in guru defrauding is nearly beyond me, but thank you for creating this site too. I found the lurid mortal aspects of the guru business informative, though I am thankful I had the common sense at the time of my awakening to see through the veil and dismiss anything that wasn't expanding my consciousness.

There's a huge yoga convention in LA today, full of commercial sponsors, and probably bath soaps. Enlightened beings are probably present there too, but you can also find them at a next door neighbors home when you are ready to see through the veil.

Kristal McKinstry ereiam.com

 
At 9/22/2007 8:08 PM, Anonymous Joan said...

TIRED OF SPEAKING SWEETLY

Love wants to reach out and manhandle us,
Break all our teacup talk of God.

If you had the courage and
Could give the Beloved His choice, some nights,
He would just drag you around the room
By your hair,
Ripping from your grip all those toys in the world
That bring you no joy.

Love sometimes gets tired of speaking sweetly
And wants to rip to shreds
All your erroneous notions of truth

That make you fight within yourself, dear one,
And with others,

Causing the world to weep
On too many fine days.

God wants to manhandle us,
Lock us inside of a tiny room with Himself
And practice His dropkick.

The Beloved sometimes wants
To do us a great favor:

Hold us upside down
And shake all the nonsense out.

But when we hear
He is in such a “playful drunken mood”
Most everyone I know
Quickly packs their bags and hightails it
Out of town.

~ Hafiz ~


(The Gift – versions of Hafiz by Daniel Ladinsky)

 
At 9/26/2007 6:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It looks like another cycle is quickly closing on us. Nanotechnology, virulent intelligent transformational matter lies on the horizon, resembling kabbalistic texts on propogating golums from sand or water with a seed of thought. Distant sub-atomic particles are now seen operate in tandem, suggesting that all atoms are kaleidoscopic facets of the same bindi seed (when they aren't blinking in and out of existence on a whim entirely). When people realize that the speed of light is time and time is localised elastic conciousness, e=mc^2 implies the big bang and the unified field theory. Even without that awareness, conservation of matter/energy over eternity implies, in recombinant DNA fashion, that any universe which could briefly exist as a molecular configuration (billion mile conscious space worms teleporting to rectangular galaxies), eventually will exist. Nothing is far out, by spiritual or scientific reckoning.

What Guru Mayi taught of our mystical role in cosmology, the Spanda Karikas, has been taught in the Book of the Dead, in the Dead Sea Scrolls, as the Kabbalah, the Trinity, the Delphic Oracle, in the Lotus Sutras, as the Tao. If you look at her as a social, religious, political, or celebrity phenomenon, you are missing the point, which is our divine nature in the cosmic creation perception loop. If you seek social ethics, though her karmic awareness naturally contrains her to be an example anyhow, look elsewhere. Her mission is to teach unity with the divine. If you look around, realizing nothing could exist outside of God, you realize that God is isn't omnibenificent in the immediate mortal context, although pockets of divine telepathic satori heaven-on-earth do exist for times when people gather in the right timing of preparedness.

The proof of her capacity as a shakti-pat guru lies in my own experience. You are elsewhere in your own world-view of reality on the internet and can easily dismiss my experience, but I can not. To go from agnosticism to believing someone can change the weather or remotely awaken someone to their divine presence takes a huge leap of faith, the sort I once took myself. I can rely on empirical evidence now, but that first leap is necessary because we create our own universe. You have to believe to create it, then, you can see that it is as clearly as much a system of cause and effect as the plane of reality left behind (though the causes are archetypal narrative energy forces, and not the epiphenomenalistic temporal molecular collusions which aetheist attributes life's events to).

Though you may have never known of me, Thank you Guru Mayi Chidvilasananda for being the divine instrument of change in my life.

Why people would invest their passion in guru defrauding is nearly beyond me, but thank you for creating this site too. I found the lurid mortal aspects of the guru business informative, though I am thankful I had the common sense at the time of my awakening to see through the veil and dismiss anything that wasn't expanding my consciousness.

There's a huge yoga convention in LA today, full of commercial sponsors, and probably bath soaps. Enlightened beings are probably present there too, but you can also find them at a next door neighbors home when you are ready to see through the veil.

Kristal McKinstry ereiam.com

9/22/2007 4:57 AM

------------


Yeah, had a friend who went from A-Z with GM in a short amount of time, and on and on it went... yada, yada, yada. Nothing you describe was not possible for this person too.

In the end, this person looked me in the eye and said, "but it's not what you think it is". They had the insight to see the undharmic activity of SY and its gurus for what it was, and not confuse it in terms of enlightenment and God Realization.

They did not further continue the myths to perpetuate the confusion and suffering of anyone coming behind them.

 
At 9/26/2007 3:36 PM, Blogger jody said...

I've seen angels depicted clearly in the clouds, while someone else in the group with a different karma is busy watching their boots step in cow pies and missing the whole show; so I guess it's possible to be at GM's side and still miss what's going on.

Really, lady... the "show" is all in your head, the "angels" in the sky and your "experiences" with Gurumayi. It's called the projection of your desire to be special.

Why people would invest their passion in guru defrauding is nearly beyond me.

Because these gurus let all this superstitious nonsense go to the heads of their devotees, after which they come up with the crap you've posted here.

 
At 10/16/2007 3:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The mind of a cultist is an amazing thing. The grandiosity, the self-delusion...

I used to be like that.

I was in SYDA for a great many years, experiencing incredible highs and heart wrenching lows, enduring numerous dark nights of the soul. There were so many discrepancies that my mind couldn't reconcile, yet I stayed as an act of faith, putting myself "at the mercy of the Guru."

The "Guru's grace" does not exist. Leaving and regaining my sanity was my salvation.

 
At 10/17/2007 9:16 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

..... So, whatever happened to George Afif?

 
At 10/18/2007 10:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So, whatever happened to George Afif?



Believe it or not, he was last reported to be headed to Australia, to be greeted with open arms by Shanks (one of Muktananda's messed up spin offs, now claiming full guruship himself, UGH!)

That was sometime within the past year. Haven't heard anything since.

What a sad, sad legacy this mess is, huh?

 
At 10/21/2007 7:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am the "anon'" who asked ...
Thanks for the the answer,:-).

 
At 11/23/2007 4:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"..... So, whatever happened to George Afif?"

Don't know where the Guru's enforcer is off to these days but had to laugh when I came across these plan for the World Trade Center Memorial site from an architectural team in Miami headed by George Afif. LOVE the 12 story pink crystal apple with a mini twin towers in its center below a giant hanging star! Really, now we really know who was behind the pink-and-aquamarine-with-purple-neon Shakti Mandap design! Oh George, everyone always talks about your bad taste in landscaping and all this time you were behind the ashram decor!




http://www.wtcsitememorial.org/ent/entI=790783.html

 
At 12/10/2007 9:24 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had never met Gurumayi and know nothting about SY or SYDA but I took an intensive by the invitation of a friend. From that moment on the whole world changed. Now all I can see is love pulsating in everyone and everything the whole world is sinctilating, shimmering with love.
She must have something because before the intensive I never experienced anything like this in fact life was quite dull and I was mostly in a stae of stress. Since the intensive I read books that explain this state of unity conciousness, that I now live in. Whilst this is on offer I feel so sad for all the moaning, complaining and blaming. The world is amazing and true spiritual attainment is on available.

 
At 12/16/2007 11:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had never met Gurumayi and know nothting about SY or SYDA but I took an intensive by the invitation of a friend. From that moment on the whole world changed. Now all I can see is love pulsating in everyone and everything the whole world is sinctilating, shimmering with love.
She must have something because before the intensive I never experienced anything like this in fact life was quite dull and I was mostly in a stae of stress. Since the intensive I read books that explain this state of unity conciousness, that I now live in. Whilst this is on offer I feel so sad for all the moaning, complaining and blaming. The world is amazing and true spiritual attainment is on available.

12/10/2007 9:24

I had never met Gurumayi and know nothting about SY or SYDA but I took an intensive
Whilst this is on offer I feel so sad for all the moaning, complaining and blaming. The world is amazing and true spiritual attainment is on available.



Interesting that you state you know nothing about Gurumayi and Siddha Yoga and yet you type the text about moaning, complaining and blaming.

What a stretch of the imagination to project what you think and not really know about Gurumayi and Siddha Yoga and those who do know about Gurumayi and Siddha Yoga (decades of involvement before leaving). Speaking the truth and the hard work of unpeeling the onion layer by layer after years and/or decades of involvement is a tremendous act of courage.

You speak of love pulsating, unity consciousness, etc. Your words are no different than those of others who were also sucked into this cult in all the years gone by. They is no indication of self realization or any truth of a lasting higher nature. It can take a long time to begin to understand this and snap out of the states long enough to get a glimpse and have it register on the meter of clear thinking.

Many have been where you are now and many are now awake and recognize what they were once involved with.

 
At 1/08/2008 4:27 PM, Anonymous Lea said...

Hello I'm from Melbourne Australia, it seem like it's taken time for news to hit here! We at the Melbourne ashram are searching for truth. Can you please tell me in regards to the sexual abuse cases with george has any one layed charges, or have the police been informed in any way. Is there any legal documents that we can read. Lea rose

 
At 1/09/2008 6:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Lea,

I just thought I'd do a bit of research for you. I enquired regarding your question on the LSY website since I don't think very many people would be reading this blog anymore.

Here's the response I got.

I don't have the extra time right now to go to Guruphiliac and post
this, so if you care to share it there that would be great.

Have Lea go to the Leaving Siddha Yoga website:

http://www.leavingsiddhayoga.net


Once there, look to the left of the screen and click on 'Articles'.
The Lis Harris article for the New Yorker titled, 'O Guru, Guru,
Guru', is approximately the sixth article from the bottom of the page
of listings of articles. Have Lea read the article. It speaks
directly to the questions asked.

Thanks for taking the time to post the query.

Also, Lea is George Afif in Melbourne?

 
At 1/09/2008 9:25 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi lea,

This is an extract from the oh guru, guru article described in the previous post.

In 1983, Afif, who was married to a woman who also lived at the ashram, was charged with statutory rape and burglary in Santa Clara County, California. He pleaded no contest to a misdemeanor charge of statutory rape, and was sentenced to a suspended six-month jail term and three years' probation. Under California law, the conviction was expunged after he served his probation satisfactorily. The teen-age girl involved was the daughter of prominent SYDA followers, who afterward left the organization in disgust. A friend of the girl's family, William Carter, a well-known photojournalist and fine-arts photographer, also left telling Gurumayi in a letter that he had been appalled by the organization's treatment of the family and its tendency to resort to "dis-information" in times of crisis, and that he was cutting SYDA out of his will.

So yes he was charged in 1983 in California.

Hope you find this insightful

 
At 1/10/2008 4:12 AM, Anonymous lea said...

Thanks I had read that and was hoping to read police reports. No George is not here. My friends have met him in South Falls, and he at least has not turned up at the ashram. I'm now leaving Siddha Yoya, after 14yrs. This is very difficult as all my friends are still in Siddha yoga. Everyone is just starting to search the web, due to the fact our ashram is now empty, everyone has been wondering why, well now I know. Shock waves are hitting, it seems beacause we live so far a way and rarely see gurumayi anyway that we were protected from finding the truth out. I will join the leaving sight when I get back from holidays in a few days. Please post this for me on the sight.

Love and blessing to all.

Lea Rose

 
At 1/10/2008 4:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Bless you too Lea..

Probably if you need to talk there is an ex-syda yoga forum. There is a link there from the leaving siddha yog website.

I'm sorry that you guys have only just found out this stuff now.

Reading this confirms that there are many good people in Syda yoga.

 
At 1/10/2008 4:53 PM, Anonymous joan radha Bridges said...

Hello Jody and all,
Some one on exsy posted from here today.I am amazed i missed all this:)
Recently I answered the questions of someone that found SY .She wanted to know what the organization is up to now. I am continually amazed that some think GM is not responsible for Muktananda and his legacy.

Also, (this is a rather old controversy) I have heard directly form folks living in Ganeshpuri, That GSP runs the place like a police state. And that GM's so-called seclusion of last year was actually spent in court losing part of GSP to her brother . He was rewarded half of the ashram (she took for him during her seize of his power some years back)

I have direct experience of Mu's dark ways. I know many personally that lived through the corruption around GM. I have spoken to several of the women that still remain anonymous and very confused over the molestation of MU when they were children.
I know Alison personally. So many lives in turmoil because of SY....
Lover of the Truth,
Joan Radha Bridges

P.S. I can be reached at radha30327@yahoo.com

Letter recently posted on exsy
Dear Katie,
I am Radha Bridges, I was molested by Muktananda, my story is on the LSY site. I was involved for 26 years, I was involved with Gurumayi (til 2002), I came out of the PTSD fog of denial about what Muk did with me at that time.

If you read my story you will see that the CEO of the now SY and Gurumayi ignored my attempts to find some resolution to the incredible angst of realizing that the man I considered God incarnate and the path I gave my adult life , money ,and time was totally false. And that I had been molested by the man I called father(baba)

SY is a dark path designed to relieve you of your soul, you can get it back but why go there?. The teachings are nothing new ,but very valid teachings from the ancient Tantras of India ,you can practice on your own as you seem to be anyway.S claims to own something that is free to all. You can receive the blessings of God within, don't go looking for someone outside of yourself, there is so much available in the subtle world, just be persistent.

Most of the so called Guru's in this age were just persistent for their own gain, they knew which mantras to chant for so many times to be able to awaken someones kundalini.(or dark acts , like sexual abuse) They are not divine, just persistent people with a gig. They use others energy, be it money, time, or subtle energy to get what they want. Finding a teacher that is the real deal is possible, but difficult as they are hidden during this time. All you need is yourself!

So I hope I am not too intense, but man!! I wish I had an exsy to write to all those years ago. I speak from direct experience. Please read all the valuable archives here and on LSY.

I am always available as are so many cool folks here. .
Peace and Love to you,
Radha radha30327@yahoo.com

 
At 1/10/2008 5:08 PM, Anonymous Joan Radha Bridges said...

Hello Lea,
I am very sorry also it has taken so long for your guys to get the information.
Please come over to ex siddhayoga site to talk,it is an awesome place.
I myself practice a form of tantra(that is what siddha yoga is, unfortunately SY is a lot of black tantra) that harms no one. The point is the teachings have always been here, you don't need GM or an Ashram to practice yoga.
If I can be of any help please don't hesitate to ask.
I speak to people a lot by phone .
Just contact me at radha30327@yahoo.com
Blessings,
Radha

 
At 1/11/2008 4:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Lea,

You say "I'm now leaving Siddha Yoya, after 14yrs. This is very difficult as all my friends are still in Siddha yoga."

I hope you will allow me to both extend my compassion and understanding to you, for the pain you are going through, while also congratulating you on a decision that demonstrates your deep inner wisdom, wisdom that has led you to set yourself free from a set of "gurus" whose only objective is to collect as much of their devotee's money, soul energy and vitality, and labor as possible for their own enrichment.

Why do I say this? Because three years ago I decided the very same thing, and found that the path of choosing to leave SY is so very, VERY hard. One typically leaves behind a major portion of one's friendships, a seeming spiritual pillar upon which one leaned for support when life gets tough. And one typically leaves a whole system of beliefs that, once shattered, crash into a billion tiny pieces.

It's hard. It's painful.

Healing from SY takes time, and effort too.

You may find many, many kindred spirits with whom to share you experiences, your pain, your challenges, your breakthroughs, your newfound discoveries and newfound self. Supportive people who have trod this path before you, MANY of them, are out there and willing to help.

Jody's site at Guruphiliac is one of the very important sites, and has been an invaluable tool. It is focused very broadly on all charlatan gurus, not just SY.

If you wish to find similar sites directly discussing experiences and providing support during the process of leaving SY, they're out there. If Jody will allow this to be posted for your direct benefit, I'd like to be able to list them for Lea Rose, please. They are:

1. www.leavingsiddhayoga.net - In addition to the O Guru Guru Guru article from the New Yorker, the various personal stories of people who left SY and why, are also very helpful. This site, known as LSY, is run by Dan Shaw and is a tremendous resource for finding support after leaving SY

2. Additionally, a discussion list forum URL-linked to LSY, is known as exSY and can be found at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exSY/

This is run by an anonymous person named "C" or "CJ" and is where people who have left discuss things reasonably openly. Most people log on with an alias to protect their identity, an important bit of advice for a first timer. The archived messages as well as the discussion going back years, is a treasure trove of behind-the-scenes sharings about SY.

3. The "Rituals of Disenchantment" blog - fairly active discussion at the moment by an anonymous person named "Seekher" who began recently to feel some degree of disenchantment about SY yet hadn't fully decided until very recently that he was more out than in. Much of his blog reflected his own process of deciding whether to leave or not. The comments section to each blog posting has been pretty active and is often rather lively. The URL is:

http://ritualsofdisenchantment.blogspot.com/

4. "The Guru Looked Good" - a blog written by Gurumayi's onetime secretary Marta Szabo, describing a long history of her experience getting into, being in, and finally deciding to leave SY. It's a long read but a really good, vivid one. The way she writes, you picture everything she went through and both her mental and emotional processing of what went on in SY...and often see yourself. It's eye-opening, thought-provoking, and a spellbinding read. The comments sections got pretty lively too. Once Marta began moderating the comments, a lot of the "pro-SY" vs. "anti-SY" verbal warfare in the comments sections quieted down, but was still valuable. Recently, commenting and posting of new blog entries on this site is a lot less active than it was a few months ago. URL is:

http://www.the-guru-looked-good.blogspot.com/

There are a couple of other sites such as "Deconstructing SY" and "Take Two Aspren and Call Me in the Morning" but they're much less active than these sites described above. Googling them should be sufficient to find them. One word of warning: Narayan, writer of the "Two Aspren" blog, is a sweet chap but appears to have spelling challenges.

I wish you much love, support, freedom and healing as you walk away from SY. Three years later, my own experience is that the pain never FULLY goes away, but with time, far, FAR greater clarity is available, far greater contentment with one's self is available. It was only after leaving SY that I realized how dependent I was on it, and now, I would never want to have that degree of dependency again. I feel much more free to be the me I was born to be.

And that has made all the difference.
Warm wishes to you,
-Brad Lee

 
At 1/11/2008 8:08 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks, Jody.
-Brad

 
At 1/11/2008 11:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I can hardly believe my eyes about all this..... I feel as if i have peeked inside someone's bedroom where I am not supposed to look....noone is
yet there it is ... perfection in this human plane is just plane not real!
we are all assses.... as Father Anthony De Mello once so brilliantly stated.... that he was going to write a book entitled " I am an Ass you are an Ass"... so liberating!
The physical Gurus are also asses yet their inner being radiates with amazing energy and ability to have all of nature and God reveal their essence... so many wonderful experiences beyond what could be regarded as possible and yet there they were..... the ashram was permeated with this undescribable energy..... thank you a million times for showing me.... I am eternally grateful for what I have seen and felt...
and yes the gurus , me ,and all of us we are also asses..... and what can you expect of an ass?
Why are we so shocked that the gurus were not perfect?? Silly us!!
WE love not because of perfection but because our hearts are open...
we accept in gratefulness all the gifts given .... who are we to judge....as ass judging an ass!
sorry but where do you think you have come to... This is Earth>>> Helloooo?
Thanks

 
At 1/13/2008 3:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

we are all assses....

Some asses are obviously bigger than others.....
and far less articulate it seems.

-----------------------------------
as ass judging an ass!

The funny thing is some of these asses you refer to manipulate, deceive and abuse others, while other asses spend a lot of time making sensitive, considerate and informed decisions before they act and cause too much harm.

Helllooo...planet earth does have a humane element of asses and it seems some very nasty ugly asses as well.

To put it into your language, I think that some of syda yoga's elite need a stairmaster to get their ass into shape.

How's your ass going by the way?

 
At 1/13/2008 11:23 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

jody,

I posted a long, yet reasonably polite, challenge to the person who defended the SY gurus with the equivalent of "Hellooooo, nobody's perfect."

And you chose not to let it post.

And then you let somebody else post about "asses".

I'm confused. Was my post too long? Is that why you didn't let it through? Or was there another reason?

 
At 1/13/2008 6:16 PM, Blogger jody said...

And you chose not to let it post.

I have no idea where your post went. I haven't been filtering any of the Gurumayi posts, so yours must have got lost in the "mail."

 
At 1/21/2008 8:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My bottom line is the following:

Nothing good EVER comes up from Judging and criticizing people. Judgement is from the realm of the ego and no good ever comes from it.

It is especially sad when people show lack of respect and anger towards people that devote their lives to do good, the saints and the holy ones.

Bad karma for you folks!

If you are so angry you got to work on yourselves! Or do something good yourself.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Gurumayi and other holy beings and they are just amazing, and generous and wonderful.

 
At 1/21/2008 8:19 PM, Blogger jody said...

Nothing good EVER comes up from Judging and criticizing people.

Much good can come from a critical appraisal of a situation, like getting yourself out of it when you're finished with it.

Judgement is from the realm of the ego and no good ever comes from it.

Every word ever spoken is from the realm of the ego. What of it?

It is especially sad when people show lack of respect and anger towards people that devote their lives to do good, the saints and the holy ones.

It is especially sad when people buy into a completely made up image for their favorite mommy or daddy figure.

Bad karma for you folks!

I accept whatever Ma brings to my life.

If you are so angry you got to work on yourselves! Or do something good yourself.

We are, despite your inability to see it.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Gurumayi and other holy beings and they are just amazing, and generous and wonderful.

Yes, they are all very good actors.

 
At 1/23/2008 3:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have had the pleasure of meeting Gurumayi and other holy beings and they are just amazing, and generous and wonderful.


I would sooo like to beleive in the good, pure and virtuous. But you know GM just isn't it. Are there any saints out there...I don't know.

I can only try to make choies so that I may remain as good, pure and virtuous as possible myself.

These choices involve the pain of realising the wrongs of others so that I don't patronise them and enable them to continue to deceive and do harm in the world around them.

It's tough...but if you want to believe in saints, it's best to become truely thinking, responsive human being yourself rather than imagining things about others that aren't true to make yourself feel good.

Bless you

May we all find the courage to confront what is rather than what wewant it to be.

 
At 2/28/2009 7:26 PM, Blogger karmacola_man said...

An Indian man's perspective.

I came across this blog recently. I am an Indian man and I live in the US. While, I was never directly part of GM's community (chose not to be!), I was indirectly associated with it. My ex-wife, an american was associated with it. I have also have known and dated some american and european women from the ashram community. My overall sense I got from all of the ashramites was that all was not well especially when it came to women devotees with regards to intimidation or sexual harassment by "superior" male members of the hierarchy, either Indian or american or other. Either GM was aware of it and chose not to control her rampant male predators or she was overly protective. But, overall my personal experiences were positive being an Indian "outsider" both with the number of ashram friends I made, the women I dated or even my ex-wife who is now an out of the closet lesbian and no longer part of GM's community. This may come across as a surprise to many of you american or non-american devotees of GM, her community is not very friendly towards Indians! Her management or she herself discourages Indians from being part of the community in america or Europe although it may be different in Ganeshpuri. Its almost as if Indians may realize or reveal the "dishonesty" in her claims or her organization's outlandish, "nirvana" claims of providing what they claim so earnestly. So, Indian hindus are in many ways felt unwelcome especially outside of India.

But, having said that my heart goes out to all the women who experienced these sexually traumatic events in GM's community or when Mukta was around. A warm hug from my heart to them. I was too young in his hey day. I suspect I am much younger than most folks posting here.

But, peace and blessings to all of you ex and current devotees of GM.

Namaste from an Indian man,
Hope you heal with compassion in your heart

 
At 2/09/2010 4:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My mother met Baba in the early 70s and has been involved in SY ever since. I was with her in India when Gurumayi and her brother were named his successors. I don't actively practice SY because I am not a very spiritual person, but as someone who grew up living in SY ashrams, I can say this: I never saw, heard of, or experienced any of the horrible things people mention (or more often just suspect or imply). Some of the devotees who had a lot of power did abuse that power (George Afif, notably), but not under Gurumayi's direct "orders."

I never felt forced to be submissive, to give money or in any other way coerced. In fact, I had a very happy childhood in the ashram, and many of my friends from those years feel the same way.

Far from hoarding or luxuriating in her devotees' donations, Gurumayi gives much of it back to them. The vast majority of gifts she receives are re-gifted in turn. She also paid for basically my entire private-school education: many, many thousands of dollars over fifteen years. Other children also received scholarships like this. SY may not publicize their income, but nor do they boast about their extensive support of their own community.

 
At 7/30/2010 11:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The guru paradigm collapses under its own weight. What happens when you come out of story and out of time is really much more interesting than worrying about what any teacher said or did, or should have said or did if this or that had been true, or might be doing now... Shift back out of story and out of time, and certainly out of belief. It is so simple. One heart beating as so many beautiful beings. - Dan

 
At 4/08/2013 7:10 PM, Blogger Tristan Martell said...

Hi a New Siddha yogi for a reason- My God mother in Hawaii was a devotee intern for Gurumayi- Met Baba in the 70s at a beach randomly and recieved Shaktipat threw the eye without a "intensive" She always knew Gurumayi to be a real Guru when she suffered from Lupus and wrote a letter to GM. Gm told her to do seva in the temple and felt kriya vibrate. Her Lupus was cured. And so Yall need to take a fucken chill pill and Quit treating Siddha yoga like a Paris Hilton pop$ culture Gossip Ring- People have there Inner experience and Learn great things from this Guru. And yes A real Guru would pull the plug stop the trend factor. If you cant afford the intensives dont Go take some responsibility for your bills. You cant be ripped off when your the one signing the Cheque. Ive had amazing experiences Siddha yoga and 27 started at 22.

 
At 5/22/2013 2:04 AM, Blogger Neil P. said...

Would someone please provide a bit of proof? The letter mentioned above isn't there. If GM has actually left SY, a lot of us would like to know. She had definitely scaled down her day-to-day involvement, but that's not the same as leaving. Can we have some proof please?

 
At 11/20/2014 5:20 PM, Blogger Bonny Bergstrom said...

(If you miss Swami Chidvalasanada visit siddhayoga.org, everything a devotee could want inclunding meditation events.)Now about meditation, because that was why Baba had three world tours. I met Baba in 1978. I had been practicing meditation since the late sixties when I was in my early teens. First and for most, Siddha Yoga was simply not available to us in the west until Bhagavan Nityananda instructed Swami Muktananda to go to the west. The time had arrived for the hidden siddis to be revealed. It was time for the Meditation Revolution to begin. When Nityanada was preparing for mahasamhdi Baba cried out, but when you are gone how will I find you. Nityanandas answer' "the heart is the hub of all things sacred go there and roam." This is done at the inhale and exhale of each breath, i have heard this refered to as and open 'secret' because it is taught to everyone but few try it. At the inhale and exhale roam in your heart. Keep practicing because it is open to us all. As far as all the other gossip about this and that, forget it. That is only sadhana clearing out the scars of being human. What baba was here for was to start the meditation revolution. One of the basic things to remember about the meditation revolution and sidhis is we do not have to learn all the ritual and discipline that it takes to master specific sidhis, but simply learn to meditate though meditation the sidhis will wait on youwhen they are needed instead of you waiting on them. Baba often said we do not need more Hindis in this world' what ever your path simply learn to meditate. It is true with Gurumayi too the purpose is meditation.

 
At 11/20/2014 5:32 PM, Blogger Jody Radzik said...

That was some deft skating over the fact that Muktananda was caught abusing young girls and Gurumayi had a hardcore shopping addiction. It is not the guru's perfection that teaches, it is in their imperfections that we come closest to them.

 
At 9/07/2015 4:31 AM, Blogger EverythingIs Love said...

Swami Chidvilasananda is the prophecied antichrist.

 
At 9/07/2015 4:47 AM, Blogger EverythingIs Love said...

She teaches darkness, not LIGHT. So'ham is the natural in-breath and out-breath, not ham-ssh, which is breathing in of darkness. Can you believe she has the gall to do that? Check with the other spiritual leaders on this issue. Thanks to everyone else, we know the rest. She fragmented a long time ago into Kali when she chose a path of darkness over LIGHT, and in this lifetime she fragmented into Shakti. Kali is her pure power aspect that left her, and Kali Yuga is really The Age of Respect For The Divine Feminine. It's followed by Sat Yuga which is The Age of Purity.

 
At 9/07/2015 5:01 AM, Blogger EverythingIs Love said...

She murdered my pets, and has launched the largest covert harassment black ops on me to prevent me from shutting her down. She has been controlling the galactic plane for a very, very, very long time. She uses the negative ets whose biology she has hijacked, and rape of The Divine Feminine to do so, and then interferes with human evolution, to prevent Cosmic Evolution. Covert harassment is just a mirror of galactic harassment, and the Divine Plan has already been anchored so do not worry. She uses the sideboard, you know, such as psychic ability and possibly teleportation and miraculous healing, which she teaches the public not to focus on, to control, and psychically tell all of the leaders she has adulterated, how to maintain control, with murder, theft, rape and all of the tactics we know.

 
At 9/07/2015 5:15 AM, Blogger EverythingIs Love said...

I have never once had a real meditation while I was in Siddha Yoga. Archangel Michael told me to leave Siddha Yoga in 1999 but didn't tell me why, and I returned a little later after becoming a spiritual healer, only to face my death. People are being murdered around me. She is behind every dark act in the cosmos. It is sad because all are loved, and if we knew how to prevent her from destroying like a selfish little child a long time ago, we could have saved her. I think that she, with her siddhis - haha- psychically coerced her brother into sexual encounters in order to kick him out because he would have blown her cover. Summon anyone to Cosmic Court and the Hague and activate the Hague and listen on the inside clearly for any question you ask so.robe, and you will hear the truth. Ed was murdered.

 
At 9/07/2015 5:17 AM, Blogger EverythingIs Love said...

To meditate, pray to God for His/Her grace in meditation, then receive.

 

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