Friday, August 25, 2006

We're Just Wonderin'

File under: We're Just Wonderin'

[Ed.note: We're hoping blind items will become regular feature here, but we'll need your inside accounts to make it fly. Tips are always confidential and always appreciated.]

Which deeksha cowboy is using his satsang as a stock corral for a string of ladies he likes to ride. Seems like he breaks 'em in with a smidgen of education about "4th dimension relationships." This little bit of New Age™ hokum is designed to allow a quick hitching and unhitching and give our cosmic Casanova a clear path to his next little filly.

61 Comments:

At 8/27/2006 5:56 PM, Anonymous MistleToe said...

Hi Jody. Must tell you that i enjoy your blog a great deal. The authenticity of your writing hardly mattered to me. But i always wanted to ask these..

What do you think could be the reason for such poor response to your blogposts? While those whom you target to bust seem to grow by the day and night with more and more and more followers, you dont seem to appeal much? Even those who comment on your blog seem to have dubious reputation or running just a shady blog which never is functional. Worse, most of them are anonymous with such bad english diction. While the PR of gurudom seem to work so effectively despite the guru's pseudo sensibilty (which you claim)and your apparent truthfulness
(which you think you are the only one who knows)seem to be left unnoticed.

It appears you stand on the pile of garbage and shouting to yourself "It stinks"
and bunch of passing by ragpickers
show sympathy -inlcudes me..hehe!-
Is your blog just gaining some occasional sympathy from onlookers or does it trigger the awareness what it should have ideally?

Your recent reposting of an old blog which perhaps received the most number of comments appears to be your desperate attempt to remind yourself of the not-so-bad support you get from the readers?

I dont think even the quality of people comment here has much intellectual maturity or class or sophistication for that matter.

I just want to ask you that do you feel happy about your work and the kind of lukewarm repsonse that you seem to get?

Sometimes I feel bad for you !


Lemme know Jody !!!

 
At 8/28/2006 12:31 AM, Blogger jody said...

What do you think could be the reason for such poor response to your blogposts?

What ever are you talking about? Outside of the brain-dead ninnies who follow the grandiose nincompoops like sheep, I'm getting a great response to what I am doing here.

I'm taking a chain-saw to sacred cows and then spitting in those cows' eyes as they roll in the gutter. That pisses a few folks off, but generally what I'm doing has and continues to be well-received, according to the personal correspondence I get.

While those whom you target to bust seem to grow by the day and night with more and more and more followers, you dont seem to appeal much?

I'm not going for appeal, I'm going for clarity. Folks can (and will) think whatever they want about me. That's not what this blog is about.

But I do appreciate when folks tell me they like what I'm doing. I've always expected folks to hate me for it. I was surprised to find out how many actually enjoy it.

Big-time gurus get devotees because there are multitudes looking for space mommies and daddies. It has nothing to do with the guru personally, and everything to do with their schtick and how that appeals to peoples' spiritual avarice and their need to feel special.

These big-time satscammers are all image and no substance. That's provided by the naive belief of the devotee. And that's why bad gurus can work great for good people.

I just want to ask you that do you feel happy about your work and the kind of lukewarm repsonse that you seem to get?

I wish I were as funny as those I attempt to emulate, but other than that I'm having a jolly good time. And the response has been surprisingly good as well. Nothing I'd call lukewarm.

 
At 8/28/2006 9:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

mistletoe, who are you?

 
At 8/28/2006 10:18 AM, Anonymous mistletoe said...

hi anonymous!
I Am THAT !!!!
(a anonymous should never bother to know another anonymous eh? What say???)

 
At 8/28/2006 1:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

mistletoe,
I must be one of these folks who does not write proper english, and keep my name anonimous, instead of making a virtual identity of me.
I could write here in my mother tongue, or in any of the other 5 languages I speak (may be not perfect, but enough to comunicate what my heart wants to express). By the way, I cannot link to your blog, to have an idea of your identity and why do you make such comments on the folks who comments on this blog.
I just want to express my gratitude to all who share in this blog, for me it has give me much more clarity, not only Jody's comments but also other people's comments, even if sometimes I get bored or uninterested on some people's stories or comments, which I find normal, this blog is open to the entire world. And not everybody fits in my interest, as not every post by Jody takes my attention.
This blog is fun and it also helps.

A Kracki ex

 
At 8/28/2006 3:01 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mistletoe, There is much to be said for opening a forum where people can comment on experiences they've had with grandiose type spiritual leaders. Spiritual scamming is a reality and many people get hurt by it. At least Jody provides a place where people can get a different perspective on the bull**** that is being doled out that mascarades as spirituality. It's really good to have a virtual antidote to mindfuck. Personally, it has helped me.

 
At 8/28/2006 3:35 PM, Blogger CHUCK said...

Jody, getting back to our deeksha cowboy, you said something about his "quick hitching and unhitching"... I'm wondering if this is another veiled slap at my fellow Texans. Could this be the Cooper fellow in Austin, and are you saying that all he's good for in the sack is a quickie? Let's be clear about this issue. I wouldn't want a big intellect like mistletoe to misunderstand.

 
At 8/28/2006 3:47 PM, Blogger jody said...

Could this be the Cooper fellow in Austin

It's a blind item, Chuck. It wouldn't be so if I told you who I was talking about.

and are you saying that all he's good for in the sack is a quickie?

Quick "hitching and unhitching" refers to the fact that he's apparently not looking for a relationship, according to multiple sources. He's just wanting to dip his stick once or twice and then move on to the next conquest while remaining unattached.

 
At 8/29/2006 4:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

JOdy said:"He's just wanting to dip his stick once or twice and then move on to the next conquest while remaining unattached. "

but i guess there is nothing wrong on that.I would like to have a relationship, but until I find a person that I like at most levels, I also have occasional lovers, and all of us enjoy.

 
At 8/29/2006 11:53 AM, Blogger BanA said...

Hey Jody! Why are we not surprised?
And isn't the "new West meets East"
sprituality all about that; you can have it all!No need for moral or ethical questions, that's old phooey...you can be enlightened and get off on whatever
sex kink,drug hit, money trip, power trip you want. Last time I was near one of those spiritual circuses,in Tiruvannamamalai, I wanted to make an ink
stamp that read, "Spiritual Criminal" and cover all those posters of yet another staring face advertising the ultimate satsang. Hey Gurl...I'm with you all the way...there is real gold but a hell of a lot of glittery show jewellery out there. We really need our fake-guru busters
All Power to you! love, Bana

 
At 8/29/2006 4:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, you say:
but i guess there is nothing wrong on that.I would like to have a relationship, but until I find a person that I like at most levels, I also have occasional lovers, and all of us enjoy.

Maybe for you this is the case and there's probably nothing wrong with that, but what this translates to when it is the self inflated guru/spiritual teacher who is involved is that he enjoys at the expense of the vulnerabilities of the satsangees. Where is the emotional responsibility here? We are talking about a power differential. Personally, I think there should be a swingers club for oversexed gurus/spiritual teacher types . That way they can get all their needs met without hurting anyone, all in the 4th dimension.

 
At 8/29/2006 6:34 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't see why would it be different for a guru.
If is not easy nowadays to meet someone with whom u can melt at all levels, is not easy also for gurus. Why shouldn't they enjoy also having occassional lovers? What's wrong if it comes from honesty and love? do u think that those gurus shall keep celibacy?
And by the way, deekshagivers are not gurus.They transmit that energy, so u can go also to India and transmit it yourself, if u want to pay 5650$ plus plain tiquet.Not such a big deal.
CAn u imagine if all who have done that process are gurus now? ;-)
there would be quite a lot. Every month 500 westenerstake that process... and thousands of indians....
so many gurus!!! S.O.S.
Let them enjoy sex!
If they are affecting the planet critical mass, they better have a satisfactory sexual and intimate life.

 
At 8/29/2006 7:06 PM, Blogger jody said...

I don't see why would it be different for a guru.

Gurus are seen as authority figures at least, and fonts of endless divine energy at worst. In every case, there is a power differential. When gurus take advantage of that, they are nothing but creepy horndogs and not much better than someone picking up hookers.

If is not easy nowadays to meet someone with whom u can melt at all levels, is not easy also for gurus.

If you need someone else to "melt", you are not qualified to be a guru.

Why shouldn't they enjoy also having occassional lovers? What's wrong if it comes from honesty and love? do u think that those gurus shall keep celibacy?

No. But gurus must respect the power dynamic rather than exploit it. If a guru wants to get some, they need to be very careful and pull their tail from outside their own satsang.

And by the way, deekshagivers are not gurus.

Correct. They are nincompoops.

They transmit that energy,

They transmit nothing but a fantasy and a ruse.

so u can go also to India and transmit it yourself, if u want to pay 5650$ plus plain tiquet.Not such a big deal.

To make a couple of flimflamming narcissists even more impossibly rich than they are now? No thanks.

CAn u imagine if all who have done that process are gurus now? ;-)

Not when their "gurus" are nothing but criminals.

there would be quite a lot. Every month 500 westenerstake that process... and thousands of indians....
so many gurus!!! S.O.S.


You mean, so many idiots.

Let them enjoy sex!
If they are affecting the planet critical mass, they better have a satisfactory sexual and intimate life.


Your "critical mass" is a pipe dream, and even if it were true, deeksha givers do not add any weight in any way, shape or form. They are not gurus, they are duprus. They've been duped and they dupe others. It's a massive psuedo-spiritual pyramid scheme, and the criminals at the top of it are laughing every day on the way to the bank at how easy it is to get money from stupid Westerners.

 
At 8/30/2006 4:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

jody said:
If you need someone else to "melt", you are not qualified to be a guru.

Maybe there is no need, just the openess to enjoy it.

jody said:
No. But gurus must respect the power dynamic rather than exploit it. If a guru wants to get some, they need to be very careful and pull their tail from outside their own satsang.

I agree on that

jody said:
They transmit nothing but a fantasy and a ruse.

Actually, a transmission of energy is noticed.Whether if that energy gives what they say or doesn't is another thing.

I said:so u can go also to India and transmit it yourself, if u want to pay 5650$ plus plain tiquet.Not such a big deal.

And Jody said:To make a couple of flimflamming narcissists even more impossibly rich than they are now? No thanks.

Did u think I was serious about it?!!!!!!

there would be quite a lot. Every month 500 westeners take that process... and thousands of indians....
so many gurus!!! S.O.S.

jody said:Your "critical mass" is a pipe dream, and even if it were true, deeksha givers do not add any weight in any way, shape or form. They are not gurus, they are duprus. They've been duped and they dupe others. It's a massive psuedo-spiritual pyramid scheme, and the criminals at the top of it are laughing every day on the way to the bank at how easy it is to get money from stupid Westerners.

Jody, actually it does not surprise that u did not get the humor I was putting in my comments. It does not surprise me because I know that actually many deekshagivers are so naif about the whole story that they could really be talking as I have been, but meaning it.
I was obviously making fun of it, also about the critical mass.
But I still think that "gurus" or spiritual teachers have same pleasures than I, as they also shit as I do. And again, is just a matter of honesty and love. If those qualities aren't there then is a missuse of power.

 
At 8/30/2006 7:20 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If it were just a matter of a guru having shedloads of sex, drugs and rock'n'roll outside the context of satsang, nobody would give a toss (apart from people who believe rigorously upheld common social morality is a sign of enlightenment, which is a reasonable, though arguable position)? Any guru who openly advertises that they are a sex fiend or money hound is fine in my book - so long as people find rest and ease in satsang with them, they are doing their job.

But the fact is, satsang is filled with google-eyed young men and women in an extreme state of vulnerability, sensitivity and turmoil in their inner lives. They are looking hard for someone to guide them out of their dream, and for a "guru" to take advantage of that for the satisfaction of his or her bodily or emotional needs, by posing as someone who's traditionally "pure" although, in their dirty little secret world, they are far from "pure", even if their teaching is otherwise quite good is wrong in a way that goes a bit beyond ordinary social morality, to offend a more general, humanist morality.

It's actually quite sickening. Jody is absolutely right on to call these little s**ts out.

Anybody who's had a satori experience knows how easy it would be to run rings around "seekers". Those who do take advantage in that way deserve the utmost scorn - especially from those of us who have "been there", or are there.

 
At 8/30/2006 7:32 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What's wrong if it comes from honesty and love?

Anonymous, if it really came from honesty and love, that would be ok. Something tells me, though, that a spiritual teacher who likes to dip his stick a few times and then move on is not really honest or loving. It sounds more like a typical guy who thinks with his dick but feels bad about that so he covers it up with spiritual platitudes.
And about deeksha, there is a lot of new information coming out about Oneness University from Freddie Nielsen and others who apparently have seen the underbelly of Bhagawan and the hierarchy. My advice to anyone thinking of going there would be to read both sides before doling out $6000.

 
At 8/30/2006 8:29 AM, Blogger CHUCK said...

Deeksha givers are like pimps for the Whore. In this relationship, the Whore gets some, the pimp gets some, and the public gets its blow job.

As PT Barnum said, "Nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the American public." Now we know that the rest of the world is just as dumb.

But this Cooper fellow, who I suspect is really from Louisiana is just doing what cool dudes have always done. Instead of drawing the broads with a cool car and a cool line of bull, he just uses the bullshit. But by now he probably has the cool car as well.

 
At 8/30/2006 8:33 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For more info on deeksha, try website
http://www.freewebs.com/dikshainfo/possiblesideeffects.htm

 
At 8/30/2006 10:24 AM, Blogger jody said...

Maybe there is no need, just the openess to enjoy it.

And the access to fawning sycophants who mistakenly believe they'll be getting "something" in the way of imaginary deeksha "energy" by having sex with gurus. It's one of the most hallowed of the horny guru's tricks: "come fly with me baby and you'll get enlightened."

Actually, a transmission of energy is noticed.

That's because it is imagined.

Whether if that energy gives what they say or doesn't is another thing.

It can give whatever the receiver believes it will give, because it's nothing more than the receiver giving to themselves what they believe they are getting from another.

I was obviously making fun of it, also about the critical mass.

I didn't get that at all. I can be as dense as the rest of them, I guess.

But I still think that "gurus" or spiritual teachers have same pleasures than I, as they also shit as I do.

That's what this blog is all about. Yet gurus are in completely different positions vis-a-vis their devotees than we are with the folks that know us. So, it's a much different ballgame for guru players.

And again, is just a matter of honesty and love. If those qualities aren't there then is a missuse of power.

Provided it's all on the table and examined beforehand, with expectations set and boundaries respected.

 
At 8/30/2006 12:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is there anything more moronic than a 'celibate master' supposedly supplying relationship, marital and/or sex advice? How can anyone who apparently lives like this have anything to say on such matters?

Of course, the reality is that all these "spiritual masters" are feeding people a pack of lies since they aren't actually celibate (well, do little boys or girls really count?). Better to have simply said they were no better than anyone else.

This is a fundamental problem with many of the teachers - they are first class hypocrits.

As one who had a relationship end because her supposedly celibate yoga guru encouraged running around the ashram with nothing on (liberation to free the spirit!) which lead to sex with a 17 year old 'monk' at the place, I am quite familiar with the hypocrits. They deserve the fate to be strung up and exposed for the liars and abusers that they are.

 
At 8/30/2006 3:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

GUYS, REALIZATION HAS NOTHING AGAINST SEX.
Some teachers missuse power, others are humble and do not try to stand as someone special. They also eat, shit and fuck.
And if in order to make love one has to marry the other, we have here a serious moral problem.

 
At 8/30/2006 3:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Cooper is not from Louisiana, nor from Texas. He told me once.

 
At 8/30/2006 3:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

jody said: That's what this blog is all about. Yet gurus are in completely different positions vis-a-vis their devotees than we are with the folks that know us. So, it's a much different ballgame for guru players.

So do u want gurus to become suppressed or what?
Do u want more saibabas around?

 
At 8/30/2006 4:42 PM, Anonymous mistletoe said...

whew !

 
At 8/30/2006 4:53 PM, Blogger jody said...

So do u want gurus to become suppressed or what?

Gurus are supposed to be free of desire. I know that's not the case most of the time, but the fact of self-realization does enable a bit more self-control. If a guru can't exercise this, they have no business being in the business.

Do u want more saibabas around?

Of course not. But that's not a license for gurus to use their satsangs as a dating pool.

 
At 8/30/2006 4:54 PM, Blogger jody said...

GUYS, REALIZATION HAS NOTHING AGAINST SEX.

Very true, but realization does afford one the luxury of more self-control. If a guru chooses not to exercise this self-control, they shouldn't be gurus.

 
At 8/30/2006 5:10 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jody, I really enjoy you, but I see a lot of puritanism and moralism in your comments.
Like Catholics, who claim that Mary is a virgen, and Jesus was also virgin until the cross....
And one should not have "bad" thoughts...
Yesterday a friend was sharing that when she was 8 years old , and she was going to confess to the priest(catholic in spain), he use to ask her if she was touching herself. The poor girl did not know what was he meaning at the time... That priest, maintaining his celibacy, ended getting horny with little girls,... at least in thought.
Cammon!
Sexual energy is an amazing energy to be used, and if one is a guru, he/she might use it with awareness and love.
With one, 2, or as many lovers one might have.
I really don't see whats wrong here.
And gurus , or teachers, also evolve, also keep on deepening the awakening, and learning.

Mistletoe, who are u then?We want references.

 
At 8/30/2006 5:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

According to whom does a spiritual teacher have to be in self control?

 
At 8/30/2006 5:24 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mistletoe said:hi anonymous!
I Am THAT !!!!
(a anonymous should never bother to know another anonymous eh? What say???) and before, he said: What do you think could be the reason for such poor response to your blogposts? While those whom you target to bust seem to grow by the day and night with more and more and more followers, you dont seem to appeal much? Even those who comment on your blog seem to have dubious reputation or running just a shady blog which never is functional. Worse, most of them are anonymous with such bad english diction.

So, I anonymous just bother, because u make such comments, and u better eat them with potatoes. U shall know, that u are that, and everyone else is THAT!
Or are u special, Mr. Mistletoe?

 
At 8/30/2006 5:46 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

jody said in a recent post on a different topic:...

A real guru doesn't put themselves above their students in any way. A real guru doesn't claim to have magic powers. A real guru doesn't claim to be God anymore than anyone else. A real guru doesn't claim any special knowledge other than that of their own being. A real guru doesn't allow themselves to be worshipped. A real guru is a real human being and makes no attempt to hide this fact.

Hey, you forgot adding that they don't have sex, in their attept of being in self-control

 
At 8/30/2006 5:52 PM, Blogger jody said...

Hey, you forgot adding that they don't have sex, in their attempt of being in self-control

I never said they don't have sex. They have responsible, non-exploitive sex in an atmosphere of full disclosure with his/her partners and an acknowledgment of this to the satsang at large. We don't need the specifics, just that it's happening and with whom.

 
At 8/30/2006 5:54 PM, Blogger CHUCK said...

Glad to hear this Cooper fellow is not a Texan. His kind give us a bad rep.

Interesting, Jody that you say that realization gives a person more self control.

 
At 8/30/2006 5:59 PM, Blogger jody said...

Interesting, Jody that you say that realization gives a person more self control.

Self-control is more available to the individual who knows they are not that individual.

 
At 8/30/2006 6:10 PM, Blogger jody said...

I see a lot of puritanism and moralism in your comments.

You project a lot of puritanism and moralism into my comments. I'm a certifiable freak.

But I'm disseminating a critique, so I make sweeping statements that attempt to redefine presently-accepted ideas about gurus.

I'll say if for the fifth time, sex is fine for whomever, but a guru has much additional responsibility, just as a psychotherapist does. They are held to a higher standard of sexual ethics. Gurus should be as well, because most of them are operating as psychotherapists (usually rather poorly) anyway.

 
At 8/30/2006 6:12 PM, Blogger jody said...

According to whom does a spiritual teacher have to be in self control?

According to me, the opinion-holder.

 
At 8/30/2006 6:30 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hey Jody, maybe for a moment u let go of control...
Anyways a dikshagiver is not a guru, so he can dip his stick wherever he likes.
Jesus was the lover of her disciple Maria Magdalena. And he also had a tantric friend in Puri.

 
At 8/30/2006 6:37 PM, Blogger jody said...

hey Jody, maybe for a moment u let go of control...

Actually, anyone thinking they have control is completely illusory. But as a leader of other people, there is a responsibility that comes with the position.

Anyways a dikshagiver is not a guru, so he can dip his stick wherever he likes.

If a person is regarded as a spiritual leader, they have an increased responsibility for those who follow them.

Jesus was the lover of her disciple Maria Magdalena.

So they say.

And he also had a tantric friend in Puri.

So you may want to believe.

 
At 8/30/2006 6:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

YES!!!! I want to believe so!
;-)

 
At 8/31/2006 6:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the stages of progression in meditation (jhanas) in the beginning (fourth jhana) stage it is common to experience very strong sexual urges. It is also very common to experience various strong surges of 'rapture' and joy.

Based on looking at many so-called gurus descriptions of the results of their practice as well as their behaviour it is evident that they have not progressed from this stage.

Unfortunately, since no one really pays much attention to the fact that there is a distinct progression from meditation practice, people have few clues how to discern whether a teacher has actually moved down the path of realization. Of course, the vast majority of gurus have not progressed so the last thing they would want is to spread such knowledge.

There's a good overview of jhanas here:

http://www.interactivebuddha.com/Nanas%20and%20jhanas%20tablep1.pdf

 
At 8/31/2006 7:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: anyways a dikshagiver is not a guru, so he can dip his stick wherever he likes.
Jesus was the lover of her disciple Maria Magdalena. And he also had a tantric friend in Puri.

I say: Most deeksha givers do not aspire to be gurus and are just regular decent people, but when one has a website and is sending out mass emails giving people spiritual and psychological advice, and telling them what enlightenment is, I would say that person is putting themselves in the position of a spiritual teacher, and with that comes the responsibility of a higher ethical standard. In Cooper's case especially because he advertises his psychotherapy credentials on his website. So, if he's using his satsang as a dating service to get casual sex, he'd better go back to psychotherapy school to get additional training in how to maintain boundaries.

 
At 8/31/2006 12:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

does cooper give satsang??
Cooper, gives deeksha. And he does not put himself into a guru rol. He also has some fantasies about angels and gods appearing to him.And he shares it. This only gives a clear idea of his naivity. I don't think this guy play a guru. I think he thinks so strongly that deeksha works, and that he is enlightened. Just as all deekshagivers. Why are u so hard on him?
What about Sri Raniji? or Sri Ronji?
I think Cooper is just a product of that Oneness University, as thousands of people in this moment.
Intead of being so hard on this fellow, we could concentrate on those who take themselves as spiritual teachers and are just criminals.
Cooper is innocent. He has been brainwashed and hypnotyzed, but is still innocent.

 
At 8/31/2006 5:41 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous, I sympathize with the people who have gotten involved with Cooper. I know how painful it is to open your heart to someone and then find out later that he isn't interested in much more than sex. A psychotherapist/spiritual teacher should know better.

 
At 9/01/2006 2:02 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had an affair with Cooper.It was after his courses in India. It was caring and loving. It was clear and no space for missunderstandings.
We are still friends.
Maybe if someone expects that Cooper will take her to Heaven with a fucking deeksha, and will become her saviour, she will be disilussioned.
I hope Cooper does not take himself as a spiritual teacher.
I saw many deekshagivers in USA have become spiritual teachers after 21 days pr. with K.
I see quite a lot of spiritual ego, but is normal, because unlike they claim, the process in India hasn't enlightened anyone. Maybe a few, who are still grounding it and dealing with personality... but this is like the good guy who awakened eating an orange...

I did the process. I tell you, for sure is brainwash and hypnotizing.

I saw an american woman who took that process who has a page:

http://www.enlightenment-online.com/
that is really ridiculous.
And yes ... lot to say about that Rani, the "spiritual leader" of the onenness movement in USA and Canada... A big time powertrip and egotrip.
Anyways I am not surprised. I heard once K. saying that we were all going to become gurus. That was so shoking to listen, but I was under diksha drug effect, and alrady brainwashed, so I accepted him telling that shit.

I want to say that the comments of some indian folks saying that they are asked for 30 people in order to come to the next level, and all what they say is true, and not enough. I heard from 1st hand an indian devotee from Mysoore who was so depressed because the dasas behaviour was so demmanding and exigent... and they were demmanding urgently to reclute a big band for the next group, and if not she would not be able to go further in the process...

 
At 9/01/2006 7:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, this thread confirms what one guru said to me one time: "The root cause of all people's problem is sex...." And proceeded to walk over to two women in a shop and say "hello, will you have sex with me?" and watched, smiling while they laughed themselves to a bathroom break! One returned and said "can you say that again?" And so he did -- again they laughed themselves silly. They were really entertained by this. The man was dressed in an orange kurta, and obviously a spiritual guru. One of the women then asked him "how long?" he said "how long would you like to go? One hour, two hours? Whatever you like" And they laughed for another 10 minutes. I was surprised they didn't throw him out of the shop.

That same man sat on a stage in India, with some 10,000 people present for satsang, and when a young, female devotee came to the microphone and said "I am going to expose your secret now..." and proceeded to tell the satsang that the guru had said "you are very beautiful. I love you..." He piped up "you left out the part of the conversation. Please tell them." She refused, blushing. Then he said "you left out the part where I asked you if you wanted to have sex with me." She ran away from the microphone. Then this guru asked the entire satsang for any female volunteers to come forward who wanted to have sex with him. One extremely beautiful girl went to the stage. He laughed and told her to go sit down. He then told the entire group that he is a bad man with no manners, no education, no morals and they should probably all leave. A very few people did leave.

This teacher says that he cannot find a man or woman in the world who can simply talk about sex like it's "a salad or a piece of fruit". He believes that no man can be fully realized until he can not react to sex in some negative or positive way. (or anything else for that matter)

Does it make any difference if these people admit all their "flaws" and come right out in crowds and admit these things? He doesn't seem to care what anyone thinks of him. How can any one of us know the state (enlightened or otherwise) of a guru? I certainly can't. I've seen so many, felt many different things, but I definitely don't know who has attained and who has not.

I do like the idea of someone in that position at least being truthful about it.

 
At 9/01/2006 10:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is this great man you are talking about?

 
At 9/01/2006 10:18 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon said: Does it make any difference if these people admit all their "flaws" and come right out in crowds and admit these things? He doesn't seem to care what anyone thinks of him. How can any one of us know the state (enlightened or otherwise) of a guru? I certainly can't. I've seen so many, felt many different things, but I definitely don't know who has attained and who has not.

I do like the idea of someone in that position at least being truthful about it.

Anonymous, can you please be more specific about the point you are trying to make regarding the subject at hand: how should sex be dealt with in context of a spiritual teacher/guru vis a vis the people he/she is trying to help/reach/teach/enlighten. Maybe I am dense, but it is not completely clear to me what this guru is trying to say. Yes, we should be able to talk about sex with no qualms or inhibitions, but the act of sex has emotional/psychological implications and should be dealt with in a sensitive and intelligent way, which involves taking into consideration the cultural context, gender politics, and power differentials.

 
At 9/01/2006 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon.. I like your story with that guru.
I think here there are many ideas about being "correct".
Yet, as the other anon was saying , there are many factors that count to define something as correct. What is correct for an american might not be correct for a swedish, and still different from what correct would be for a palestinan.
So ... for me , only honesty , total sincerity, and an opened heart counts.
I don't think that the guru mentioned was trying to say anything special or in particular. The devotee was trying to say something. He just finished to tell the whole story. Whith total 100% sincerity. No fear. Nothing to loose.
What else?
I hope here are not trying to value a teacher by his/her manners.... but rather by their authenticity, as a liberated human being.
And a liberated human being is not concerned about what other people think is "correct" or not. He /she just IS.
And if likes to make love to his/her beautiful fellow, better to express it than to repress it.
And if u think that he/she shall have no sexual desire... that's a big conditioning u have.
And if u think that he/she shall have no sex with fellows... what do u want?
That they control the hormons?(I won't get attracted by that person, even if my organism feels that YES...because is "not correct")...
moral.

 
At 9/01/2006 11:52 PM, Anonymous Also Anonymous said...

I hope Cooper does not take himself as a spiritual teacher.

More like a spiritual messenger, i believe. Also, regarding the money part, it is only secondary. These people donate most of the money made from deeksha to a fund to send other friemds to India, who cannot afford the $5000+ for the 21-day "enlightenment". In other words, these middlemen are shovelling money straight into Big K's coffers.

 
At 9/02/2006 6:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon sid: And if likes to make love to his/her beautiful fellow, better to express it than to repress it.
And if u think that he/she shall have no sexual desire... that's a big conditioning u have.
And if u think that he/she shall have no sex with fellows... what do u want?

Anon, you seem to be missing the main point of this whole blog. It's about sexual ethics when a power differential is involved., not about repressing sexuality. That's another issue entirely. I am getting really disillusioned with this whole new age mentality. People seem not to use their powers of discernment.

 
At 9/02/2006 7:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To yet another "anonymous":

What this guru was saying is that sex is like eating food. You just do that act and forget about it. That's how he sees it. He doesn't care about "correct" in this or that society, although I have seen him play the game of being the holy guru. Then, in the next breath, I've seen him ask some woman for sex openly and with love and playfulness. He doesn't seem to know or care. Then I've seen him lie to other women, telling them he never has sex. When asked about the lies, he'll say he doesn't care, that nobody can control him, and he just laughs. He basically seems quite crazy, to be honest. One minute one way, another minute another way. People flock to him because they get well (physically, mentally, emotionally) near him for some reason. He acknowledges that all cultures have their norms and societies have their rules. But he just says it is the lowest form of existence. I asked him once: "then, from what you are saying, one could as well eat his dinner in the toilet as at a nice clean table" (knowing that he is quite fastidious about cleanliness and his food). He lauged and said "yeah". And then switched, saying "but one should follow all the rules of their society until they understand something more..." I assume that "something more" is when we get over it, so to speak -- our obsession that sex is emotional, rather than physical. He simply disagrees thoroughly with that idea.

 
At 9/02/2006 8:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I assume that "something more" is when we get over it, so to speak -- our obsession that sex is emotional, rather than physical. He simply disagrees thoroughly with that idea.

To anon: Good for him. And notice that it is a Him that said that, not a Her. I think the whole problem with society is not sex, as one anoymous intimated, but that it is controlled by male ideas about relationship- and notice how the earth is being literally raped of her resources. I am not saying your guru is following male principles, but in general, I would say the guru-disciple relationship is one of dominance and submission and reflects a male paradigm.

 
At 9/02/2006 8:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I hope Cooper does not take himself as a spiritual teacher.

How would you define Cooper, Jody? There seems to be some confusion here about whether or not he fits into the category of spiritual teacher. If he is just a "spiritual messenger", does this let him off the hook?

 
At 9/02/2006 8:50 AM, Blogger jody said...

How would you define Cooper, Jody?

He definitely functions as a spiritual leader, which nominally makes him a guru, albeit one who is beset by a raging case of narcissistic inflation and a grandiosity that could only be described as perverse. His face on the billboard is the evidence of that.

 
At 9/04/2006 10:35 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous said: "I am getting really disillusioned with this whole new age mentality. People seem not to use their powers of discernment"


Good that you are getting disillusioned!
And discerniment comes from the inner authority of the heart,and not from what your mind tells you what is "ethical", or "responsable" or "correct", or good or bad.

 
At 9/05/2006 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon said: Good that you are getting disillusioned!
And discerniment comes from the inner authority of the heart,and not from what your mind tells you what is "ethical", or "responsable" or "correct", or good or bad.

Personally, I do not make such absolute distinctions between heart and mind. I'd say we need to strike a healthy balance between the two modes of perception.
I am aware that the idea that we are not our minds has become popular in spiritual circles these days, but I think it is overused and has become cliché. Seeing the effects of Alzeimers has taught me a lesson or two about that.

 
At 9/06/2006 3:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anom said:Personally, I do not make such absolute distinctions between heart and mind. I'd say we need to strike a healthy balance between the two modes of perception.

There is the space for discrimination to be used, wether if is The mind telling you something, or Thruth expressing out from your the core of your heart.

Anom said:"I am aware that the idea that we are not our minds has become popular in spiritual circles these days, but I think it is overused and has become cliché. Seeing the effects of Alzeimers has taught me a lesson or two about that"

MAybe you Fear loosing "your" mind, and that's why you still give it so much importance.

Obviously you haven't yet realized that you in Truth, are not either your mind nor your emotions.
And this does not mean that those are wonderful tools to be used. Then of course there is your free will, so if you still want to be ruled my "your" mind, trying to find a "balance" with whatever you call your heart, go ahead.

 
At 9/06/2006 12:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The above said: Obviously you haven't yet realized that you in Truth, are not either your mind nor your emotions.
And this does not mean that those are wonderful tools to be used. Then of course there is your free will, so if you still want to be ruled my "your" mind, trying to find a "balance" with whatever you call your heart, go ahead.

Dear anon, I am just as ignorant as the next guy and do not claim to know the ultimate answers to life. I base the beliefs I do have, though, on direct experience. If they don't sit right with my mind and heart, I discard them. Maybe you could enlighten me and all the bloggers here by telling us where you have gotten your ideas from, since you seem to have answers you want to share. I could relate better if I knew where you were coming from.

 
At 9/06/2006 12:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon, I found a relevant quote in response to your comment: "inner authority of the heart,and not from what your mind tells you what is "ethical", or "responsable" or "correct", or good or bad." It resonates with me, don't know about with you:

" Sanity involves the capacity to respond to information, internal and external, in a way that contains the possibility of change. Interfering with this process is one of the most subtle and basic abuses of authority- that is, the denial of, or even assault on, the followers' basic experiences and discriminatory capacities. This allows a leader to manipulate even highly educated people, especially if their intelligence did not bring them fulfillment. Reason does not guarantee wisdom. It is, however, a tool for integrating experience, which is necessary for self trust, without which there can be little wisdom. When critical intelligence is labelled unspiritual, or a hindrance to higher truths, what is left? there is little option but to take the word or worldview of some high authority."
Joel Kramer

 
At 9/06/2006 2:29 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anom said:"If they don't sit right with my mind and heart, I discard them".

Your mind will always tell stories of right and wrong. And you might loose the point.

"Maybe you could enlighten me and all the bloggers here by telling us where you have gotten your ideas from, since you seem to have answers you want to share."

I wish I could do what you are asking me, but fortunately someone already did. I have not got my ideas but I have gone through the direct experience of what they express.

"I could relate better if I knew where you were coming from"

This is of little importance, my dear anonymous.

Other anonymous, about Joel Kramer quote, I agree. Mind is a wonderful tool to be used. But watch up not to be used by the Mind.

 
At 9/06/2006 3:28 PM, Anonymous LLL&L said...

I have decided to have a name. I will be LLL&L

 
At 9/06/2006 4:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anon said: Your mind will always tell stories of right and wrong. And you might loose the point.

I think the argument you are using is a traditional ploy of gurus to escape accountability.
And yes, good idea to use the mind as a tool and not to be used by it. I would agree with that one.

 

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