Saturday, September 24, 2005

Camp Profit For Prem

File under: Gurus Clockin' Dollars

An upcoming Prem Rawat retreat in the state of Queensland, Australia is going to bring in the big bucks. The cost to camp out for the weekend: $675US for a single tent and sleeping bag up to about $2000US for the deluxe double bed with electric blanket. 2500 devotees are expected to attend.

While a spokesperson claimed Rawat will be giving the lecture for free, we're confident that at least some of the money will somehow find its way into his organization's reportedly cavernous coffers. After all, he's got a Gulfstream V private jet and a few Bell helicopters to fuel and maintain.

Rawat is still on a tear around the world rehabilitating his image. It seems people have forgotten his past abuses despite the best efforts of his well-organized former devotees. Prem's PR minions are doing an excellent job and appear to have a good grip on the public's perception of Rawat, the protestations of those he allegedly abused notwithstanding. It's kind of like the Bush administration vs. what's left of the political Left in America. A few tweaks on the public's perception and you can get away with pretty much anything.

17 Comments:

At 9/27/2005 7:03 AM, Blogger Alex said...

Guruphiliac

You're right to be confident some of the money raised in the current Australian Prem Rawat lovefest will find its way to some cavenous coffer.  For a very good analysis on how this scam works have a look at the process, expenses and revenues.  It's a long read, but well worth it.

Also, your readers may find this website useful in quickly understanding who Prem Rawat is and his history.

yours etc
Alex

 
At 9/27/2005 10:06 AM, Blogger Liza said...

Got tired of Kali Mandir, worshiping the Divine Durga, sacred tantras and shakta, uh Jody?

What is the motivation for starting such a bog, I wonder? As a fellow bloger I know how much time it takes to maintain one, write, research stuff, etc. So what is it Jody? Bored with creative direction? Trying to make yourself a name out of "guru-bashing"? The known apostate syndrome of attacking their former beliefs?

Nevertheless, and in regard to Mr. Rawat, please note that these people that you tout as "former followers" are a small band of apostates with a massive ax to grind. You may be interested to know that two of these former devotees have filed legal documents admitting under oath that the underlying purpose of their band group is to harass, defame and annoy Rawat and his students, and to purposefully interfere with their right to peacefully assemble. The also discuss that the apostate's group are "irrational, obsessed, and motivated by ill-directed anger [...] and that when they purport to report on factual matters they are frequently false and defamatory, unsupported by actual fact basis, and motivated in many instances by hatred, ill will and spite."

So, I warn you that you may be helping that hate group to further their agenda, unless this is exactly the purpose of your blog, that is.

Liza E.

 
At 9/27/2005 10:23 AM, Blogger jody said...

Got tired of Kali Mandir, worshiping the Divine Durga, sacred tantras and shakta, uh Jody?

Actually, the deity worshipped at Kali Mandir is Ma Kali Dakshineswari, and no, I didn't get tired of Her. What I got tired of was the Hindu superstition that was accepted with the same veracity as scientific fact.

See this

Trying to make yourself a name out of "guru-bashing"?

As I've stated many times in the comments and in the blog, I'm attempting to provide relief from all the occluding myth, superstition and speculation that surrounds big time gurus about their supposed divine powers and about self-realization and what that entails in general.

So, I warn you that you may be helping that hate group to further their agenda, unless this is exactly the purpose of your blog, that is.

Your attempt at pro-Prem Rawat propaganda is noted. I know an ex-premie personally who has laid it all out for me. The fact that a group of ex-devotees with an ax to grind even exists is at the very least an indictment of Rawat's former activities. The fact that he owns a Gulfstream IV and a couple of helicopters is an indictment of his current activities as well.

 
At 9/27/2005 10:42 AM, Blogger Liza said...

Oh, now is all clear for all to see... Ex-follower of X and ex-follower of Z make what?

Note that PR does not own any Gulfstreams. And even if he did, so what?

I would encourage you to read this afiidavit, for the "other side of the coin".

As for the criticism, no problems ... hey... a publiuc figure is a public figure, but yout attempt to "indict" someone based on apostate testimonies is er... stupid?


Liza

 
At 9/27/2005 11:16 AM, Blogger Surdas said...

While Elan Vital ,Rawat's Organistation, was shouting loudly "Liar,liar", to John McGregor, because he was lying under oath in front of the court, he is now a reliable person when he gives another oath in favour of Rawat? Strange logic that is, a cult's logic in fact. The other guy retracted his affidavit and claims he gave it under duress. So why leaving that out, if you are a truthfull person?

 
At 9/27/2005 11:34 AM, Blogger Liza said...

I would like to be considered a truthfull [sic] person, but I am missing your point.

In reading the profuse documentation about this Macgregor (not McGregor) that can be found in Google (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22John+Macgregor%22+Rawat), one should er... take it um grano salis, I agree. But still these documents are damning as it pertains to the vicious tactics these people engage in.

Liza E.

 
At 9/27/2005 11:42 AM, Blogger Surdas said...

Well, Mr. Tom Gubler who gave the first affidavit and retracted it later, said that he had to sign what was dictated to him. If you compare the wording of his affidavit with that of John MacGregors, the similarities are obvious in my opinion. So if the first one are not Gubler's own words, how come the second one be so close to it?

 
At 9/27/2005 1:53 PM, Blogger Alex said...

It's amazing really Jody, but I'm sure you are not surprised. You put up a well thought out blog comment about Prem Rawat and almost instantly you get a premie (follower of Rawat) come here and attack you on personal and vicious terms. So much for the love and peace which Prem Rawat apparently shows through his Knowledge.

The John MacGregor story that Liza raises is an interesting story, but really quite simple. A good guy exposes the bad guy, the bad guy launches various legal attacks on the good guy, the good guy caves in and gives what the bad guy wants, for now. Result? An affadavit from the good guy which the bad guy trumpets everywhere. Sure there were various meanderings on the way, but that is my take on what happened.

Gulfstream V executive jet not being owned by Prem Rawat. Give me a break Liza will'ya? Sure it is not legally owned by Mr Rawat, but who gets exclusive use of that jet? And who controls the company that leases the jet from? Why Mr Rawat of course!

C'mon Liza, why not talk about what is really happening? Like how your lord and master pretended to be the Lord of the Universe and got thousands of people to sacrifice their careers, their partners and their future, just so he and his family (and his mistress) can be kept in clover. And then pretend that he never said all that, like it was all a big misunderstanding.

And on what? A bunch of re-flavored second hand meditation techniques.

Alex

 
At 9/27/2005 3:35 PM, Blogger Liza said...

Hi Alex! So you must be "one of them" if you follow what I mean...

Here is a transcript of the affidavit (emphasis added).

Tell me what you think, Jody, but IMO, these guys are "standard-issue" hate-mongers in my book.

My be their ex-guru has an extravangt lifestyle, but these guys surely stink.

Liza E.


1. I am a competent adult over the age of 18, and make this Affidavit, under no duress or coercion, and if called to testify as to the facts stated herein I could do so truthfully;
4. Contrary to reports and claims published by myself and others I was never privy to "secret" or "inside: information that was to be hidden and not available to other volunteers;
6. In 2001 I began to undergo emotional issues of a serious nature that caused me to suffer a severe lack of judgement. These emotional issues manifested in a combination of depression and unfocused anger. I began to communicate with members of a loose connection of individuals who call themselves "Ex-premies" as former students of Prem Rawat. These people maintain a series of Internet web pages and chat rooms a goal of which is to create an atmosphere of ill will and malice toward Rawat and his students. I was one of the worst offenders;
7. Members of the Ex-Premie Group validated my self deception that I was not responsible for my emotional issues or life choices, and that if any blame was to be laid, it was appropriately directed at Rawat and his students;
8. I have had many conversations with the members of the Ex-premie Group, and have read hundred of their internet postings and writings. The goals of the Ex-Premie Group are often obsessive, malicious and destructive in nature. The Ex-Premie Groups, through the use of the internet interferes with the rights of people to experience their own spiritual discovery and for the purpose of harassing individuals who are students of Rawat's;
9. The Ex-Premie group consists prominently of the following individuals: John Braun, Jim Heller, Marianne Bachers. Nick Wright and Jean-Michel Kahn amongst others;
10. The Ex-Premie Group's actions have included the contacting of employers of students of Prem Rawat, letters to regulatory agencies and the media with unsupported allegations and rabid personal attacks on the character of individuals. Further instances include:
- The internet publication of photographs and address of Rawat's private house with maps of children's bedroom;
- The internet publication of personal details about Rawat's home life, and the private life of his family and children;
- Contacting businesses with which the volunteer entities have contractual obligations and, attempting to intimidate them into avoiding these contracts;
- Researching and publishing Prem Rawat's whereabouts;
- The publication of entirely false stories of a defamatory nature on the internet and encouraging media to report these fabrications as fact.
12. Based on no factual evidence, I arranged to publish in two Australian print media publications articles that Rawat and/or the volunteer entities were cult-like or involved in illegal or immoral activities. These implications are absolutely false and unfounded;
13. I found that the more vitriolic and defamatory my writings about Rawat where, the more support and comfort I received from the Ex-Premie Group. Because I craved this attention and validation, I sought to have published further similar articles.
15. In retrospect, I am of the opinion that many of these persons are irrational, obsessed, and motivated by ill-directed anger;
16. I have reviewed the statements about Rawat, his students, the volunteer entities posted on the Ex-Premie Group's websites and find that when they purport to report on factual matters they are frequently false and defamatory, unsupported by actual fact basis, and motivated in many instances by hatred, ill will and spite;
18. During the course of 2003/2004, I made allegations of impropriety against the claimants and their legal advisers. These allegations were the product of my overwrought state and they were wrong. These stories were designed to paint the Claimants as a dangerous shadowy cult abusing the litigation process to silence criticism. I understand and acknowledge that the litigation was not directed towards silencing criticism, but instead Claimants were appropriately protecting themselves against the activities of an antagonistic group as would any other business people in the circumstances.
20. In the course of my involvement with the Ex-Premie Group, I filed several complaints to various tax and regulatory bodies around the world, hoping to initiate expensive and burdensome investigation of Rawat and related volunteer entities. I acknowledge and admit that I had no factual basis upon which to make such allegations, and that the complains I filed were supported by unauthenticated, incomplete or out-of-context documents designed to paint a sinister picture.
21. Since the litigation I have had the chance to reflect upon the activities of the Ex-Premie Group, my involvement with them, and their motivations. I have come to realize that my involvement was misguided, and that I have to accept personal responsibility for my own life choices and actions.
22. I believe that I woe Prem Rawat , the claimants, their legal advisers and all of Rawat's students and apology for my actions, and for allowing myself to be used by the Ex-Premie Group. I believe that persons have the right to chose their own path of spiritual discovery, and the right to leave a chosen path, but that people do not have the right to incite hatred and interfere with other's choices.

John Murray Macgregor on APril 27, 2005 at Bangkok, Thailand

 
At 9/27/2005 4:43 PM, Blogger Alex said...

Hi Liza

What do you mean 'one of them'? I'm just a human being, previously a follower of Prem Rawat. Now happy to be living my life. Released from the bonds as it were.

I'm sure we would get on very well if we had dinner together or something like that. However would you be able to cope? I mean with the 'stink' that is. I guess you think I stink because I have stopped practising Knowledge. Remind me, oh yes, your lord and master said that if anyone stopped practising his Knowledge they would turn into rotting vegetables. Nice fear mongering on the part of Prem Rawat.

Thanks for pasting John MacGregor's 'affadavit'. Always makes for an interesting read. I recognise many cultspeak phrases in there. Tell me Liza, seeing that you are such a creative writer and all, how much help did you provide in that write up? Or was the main input given by Jean-Marie?

Alex

 
At 9/28/2005 11:03 AM, Blogger Liza said...

I'm sure we would get on very well if we had dinner together or something like that.
Hitting on me, Alex? Aw..! How old are you? I prefer them young, you know :o) unless you are a woman, in which case I prefer them somewhat mature... (i.e. the stamina of a young man, or the naughtiness of an experienced woman.)

What do you mean 'one of them'?

By "one of them", I meant one of these people that are irrational, obsessed, and motivated by ill-directed anger as many of these people certainly are. Are you, Alex?

As I said previously (maybe you missed it, Alex) I am not a guru follower.

Liza E.

 
At 10/24/2005 8:17 PM, Blogger Moira said...

Thanks Alex for the great links.

It is great that the ex-premie site publishes all the speeches by Rawat that he wanted destroyed.

Liza< were the two known children who were raped by Jagdeo apostates?

Why did Maharaji send him on tour even after the rapes were reported?


Prem went bad long ago, it is a pity no one around him has any courage; but I suppose that's what sychophants do, they surround themselves with slaves.
Do you remember in the70s how so many premies grew bum-fluff mousetaches, just like their Lord.
Saddam also had many look-alikes.

 
At 10/24/2005 8:25 PM, Blogger Moira said...

oh Liza,

I know you are not a Guru follower but are you a pwk or an aspirant?

When did you receive Knowledge if you did? I may have been in your Knowledge session :>)

 
At 1/22/2009 2:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who is this lisa character and why is she defending rawat with such ferocity? tell her to ask a less then fawning question to her darling and see the darling response she gets! rawat is vicious to anyone who doesnt lick his arse. rawat is about image only, thats the only thing he defends, and money and fame. not you or me. not long time devotees either, he talks to them viciously if they ever ask a decent question. ever wonder why there are only expression sessions? you can only express, not expect answers. noone ever has got a decent answer from rawat and noone ever will, no matter how hurt you have been through his organisation. so why people defend this armani wearing, donation consuming, parasite, i dont know.

 
At 1/22/2009 2:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

if prem rawat took as much time counselling those he has hurt, as he does vilifying those who disagree with him, he'd be a saint.
but he isnt.
if prem rawat took responsibilty for his errors that caused hurt to so many innocent victims, instead of getting the victims to take responsibilty, he'd be a saint. but he isnt.
if prem rawat was a saint, he'd be going to heaven.
but he isnt and he aint.

 
At 7/11/2009 12:52 PM, Anonymous quackers said...

LIZA E SAID: "1. I am a competent adult over the age of 18, and make this Affidavit, under no duress or coercion"

so? what of the guru? he isnt a competant adult!

and if he isnt a competant adult, he shouldnt be issuing affidavits in the first place!

under no duress or coercion?
are you kidding? the cult stalked this guy to near breaking point.

yes there was coercion and duress and ironically from the idiot who issued the affidavit

meaning the person who was saying "you are under no coercion" was the same guy who was placing you under coercion with the affadavit!

if you think thats confusing, thats nothing, try making sense of the affadavit:
micromanaging to the point of:
youre damned if you do, damned if you dont!

its called justice in a kangaroo court, with the kangaroo judge, with the kangaroo outcome dear.

but with blind devotees like yourself, your master has further reason to treat people like this again and again.

welldone, with devotees like you, rawat has absoulutely nothing to worry about. you are his defence and arsenal!

 
At 7/13/2009 9:10 AM, Anonymous quackers said...

quackers said: ".....with the kangaroo outcome dear."

again i've got to stop calling people "dears", since i'm probably one of the youngest here!

 

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