Defined: Hands Where They Don't Belong
File under: Gurubusting and Hands Where They Don't Belong
A reader sent us an interesting photo this morning:
Now you know what we mean when we say "hands where they don't belong."
Source. Original source.
Update: According to a commenter, this is a photo of the mostly well-respected, recently-deceased yoga guru Krishna Pattabhi Jois of Ashtanga Yoga. That being the case, this is still wildly inappropriate, in our opinion.
Labels: Gurubusting, Hands Where They Don't Belong
posted by guruphiliac @ 6:08 PM
39 Comments:
Jody please spare my deceased guru Pattabhi Jois. The old man died a couple of months ago at the age of 93. He was a great yoga teacher whatever you say. He was not one of your Gurus who don't poop in the same toilet. He pooped just like all of us and never claimed otherwise. Although he did have high profile chelas like Maddona and loved gold jewelry, he earned his bread or rather his south indian rice and sambhar honestly.
mulabanda doesnt require a gurus hand up ones crotch to locate it...
Sure, you want Jody to spare him so you can close your eyes and keep your comfortable belief system intact.
I hope you don't call yourself a 'seeker of truth'
I don't have a huge problem with KP Jois, but what we are seeing in the picture is utterly uncalled for. That said, this doesn't mean he was a fraud as a yoga teacher, just one that got a little more handsy than necessary sometimes.
Well, I do have a problem with anyone using his/her status to step out of line for personal gain. And using the trust of his/her followers for own advantage.
Just because some think he was a 'good' yoga teacher doesn't excuse him from responsibilities of being a 'good' person.
Good example of followers letting the guru 'have his way' without questioning his intention.
This fellow looks a lot like my uncle henry. If he had on overalls and a straw stetson and weighed another 75 pounds he'd look like me. If he weighed another 100 pounds, had bee hive hair the color of Mountain Dew and wore a pair of stretch pants, he'd look like the gal who teaches yoga at the Dime Box, Texas community center. Actually I was thinking that he looks pretty old and maybe just needed to hold onto somethin to keep from fallin down... It could have all been very innocent!
Actually I was thinking that he looks pretty old and maybe just needed to hold onto somethin to keep from fallin down... It could have all been very innocent!
LOL! You know, I hadn't thought of it that way! ;)
Wait, you think something is going on here? Oh, no, you just have a dirty mind. That's root chakra cleansing.
These two gals were just yoga props, Jody!
He was testing to see if there was enough room to park his bicycle.
Anonymous said...
He was testing to see if there was enough room to park his bicycle.
9/25/2009 4:45 PM
Yes, Muktananda used to do the same thing to females. Even when Muktananda walked around with a permanent flat tire on his bicycle, it did not stop him from inserting his flat in to females he previously fingered to check them out.
I hate this kind of thing. I went to a singing teacher who tapped my pubic bone saying my voice has "...got to come from there."
Riiiiight.
When you are a student you are more open and less defended and creeps like this have an instinct for vulnerable targets.
Rrrr!
Oh my good God! That's just phenomenal.
Spot on Martin Gifford !
My Bruce Lee father cracked the whip , emphatically declaring " no music/dance or any talent gathering class for precisely the same reason.
The music teachers grope for the students' thigh in the guise of teaching the 'thalam' i.e.,beat.
Among many female dance teachers lesbianism is quite common. Here in India we are in vehement & perennial denial however.
If Jois had seen some man doing this to his own wife or daughters, I very doubt he would have approved.
If a yoga technique or a singing technique requires using a portion of one's body that is considered 'private parts', the way for a yoga teacher or coach to do it is not to touch the student there.
Instead, the teacher should either give a verbal description or if necessary point towards that area on his or her own body.
At most one might have to put a hand on a student's lower back to assist that person in adjusting the backside during a pose.
But if that picture is accurate, it is a textbook example of fingers where they do not belong.
And...doing this to two students at the same time..uh, uh.
Wrong.
It would be very difficult for a student who has been fingered that way to speak out and protest in a situation involving so honored a yoga teacher.
Stop being such victorian prudes. If a yoga teacher has to teach a proper alignment he might have to touch the crotch. Advanced yoga students would not mind as their main objective is to acheive perfection in the postures. Its the same in martial arts, mountaineering, ballet or gymnastics.
The best solution for all the cry wolf victorian prudes here is to stay at home in sanitized settings and talk of some mythical atman/ brahman and not venture into such physical arts. If the folks being touched have a probblem they will complain and it will give much food for thoughts to your sexually repressed righteously indignated brains.
Stop being such victorian prudes. If a yoga teacher has to teach a proper alignment he might have to touch the crotch. Advanced yoga students would not mind as their main objective is to acheive perfection in the postures. Its the same in martial arts, mountaineering, ballet or gymnastics.
The best solution for all the cry wolf victorian prudes here is to stay at home in sanitized settings and talk of some mythical atman/ brahman and not venture into such physical arts. If the folks being touched have a probblem they will complain and it will give much food for thoughts to your sexually repressed righteously indignated brains.
9/30/2009 3:54 AM
Spoken like a true rant that really has no idea about the reality some comments are based on, and the experience base of people who have posted them.
Throw the comments under the bus and label the authors as "victorian prudes".
How transparent.
Riiight,
All the victorian prudes forgot about the 'vaginal chakra' often discussed (but under-touched) in yoga class.
"Stop being such victorian prudes. If a yoga teacher has to teach a proper alignment he might have to touch the crotch."
I think most people assume fingering genitals is out of bounds for a yoga teacher. Otherwise, the teacher would need to explain clearly beforehand and give people plenty of time and chances to opt out.
In reality, these creeps do it while your mind is distracted with something else e.g. yoga or singing. I've met so many people with a devilish instinct for spotting vulnerable people and abusing them by distracting them or using lame excuses.
Again, a very simple test:
Would you want anyone to finger your mother that way?
If your answer is no--it is WRONG to touch any woman that way, even if she is a yoga student and the handler is a famous guru or yoga teacher.
If you'd consider it wrong for your own mother (or your own sister/s) to be touched that way, its wrong to treat any woman that way, even if she is young, pretty, and outside of your family, your caste group, or your social class.
Helloooo! Any woman who sees this picture can immediately see the intention of his fingers.
Even if I gave him the benefit of the doubt, there are other ways to touch the lower chakras without fingering the intimates. This is not a crotch touch for the sake of yoga-posture or body alignment.
And why, oh why, is he touching TWO women at the same time? (no, he's not trying to stop them from falling over)
If he was concerned about yoga alignment, he'd be working with one person at a time.
"And why, oh why, is he touching TWO women at the same time?"
That way he can claim he was distracted by the other woman and so the fingering was accidental.
Chuck writes:
"Actually I was thinking that he looks pretty old and maybe just needed to hold onto somethin to keep from fallin down... It could have all been very innocent!"
Yeah, right.
He just happened to latch on to both girls' clitoris as he reached out.
There is a greater chance that each vagina would be hit by lightening than the middle finger of each of Jois' hands coming to rest along each lady's Labia Minora, as the photo clearly indicates.
My thought is what if the ladies in the pics liked it openly or secretly? Being touched by the guru in such intimate places which can probably purify them and all? If not I think the women in the pic should have left the guru and should have filed a suit? My question again is what if the student likes such a idea and the guru goes for it ? How do we as outsiders or onlookers deal with it?? WTF is the problem with anyone else other than the man and those women ??
My thought is what if the ladies in the pics liked it openly or secretly? Being touched by the guru in such intimate places which can probably purify them and all? If not I think the women in the pic should have left the guru and should have filed a suit? My question again is what if the student likes such a idea and the guru goes for it ? How do we as outsiders or onlookers deal with it?? WTF is the problem with anyone else other than the man and those women ??
10/12/2009 5:55 AM
Good lord,
This argument has been used way past the point of being worn out in trying to justify guru abuses... and female abuse in society at large as well.
If you need to brought in to the 21st century, at least do some research which highlights this type of argument was buried long ago.
I was at this yoga class, and for the record and for everyones information, it was tantric yoga and this position is called the "divine swami pyramid", he touched everyone's genitals in the same way, "nothing to see here folks, move along, move along... This position is called the feelurupa ohyababi.
Seriously though, anyone with a set of eyeballs can see the fact that he is taking advantage of them.
The way you take advantage of someone is you corrupt them and then you do what you want to them. In this yoga class, he corrupted these people by putting them in a defenseless position and then took advantage.
The simple truth is people take advantage of others because "they can."
the "divine swami pyramid"
10/13/2009 11:46 AM
Of course, with the swami/guru at the top of the pyramid.
As said:
"The simple truth is people take advantage of others because "they can."
"Stop being such victorian prudes. If a yoga teacher has to teach a proper alignment he might have to touch the crotch."
But not grip it like you're riding a damned motorcycle.
Are there no ways to touch that don't involve cupping the labia?
Lol these comments are hilarious. I did reiki once and the guy randomly decided it should be sexual reiki. My special places weren't touched but it was way inappropriate. It's harder than you would think to say something about it when they do it suddenly, although now 10 years later I'd punch someone if they tried that. Ok, or walk away.
You see - what you are seeing is divinity in action out of complete and total compassion for mere mortals.
These ladies must have had quite a spiritual experience because of the compassionate "energy darshan" by this divine soul :-)
I don't know about yoga, but that stuff about martial arts crotch touching is nonsense.
I've taken up a few martial arts, and no crotch touching was ever required. There can easily be accidental touching in some arts, but there should be nothing deliberate. There are examples of accidental touching: in judo, for example, there is a technique where the hand goes under the thigh and reaches round to the belt, and accidental crotch touching can happen then. It can also happen in a technique similar to the WWE aeroplane, and there can be crotch-to-butt contact in many throws (often this is actually necessary for the right position). There's also at least one technique where crotch-to-crotch touching can happen - but it's not deliberate.
Pattabhi Jois does nothing by happenstance. That would be the opposite of yoga. As a 10 yr veteran yoga teacher, I see him helping two more capable students learn exactly what it should feel like when the root chakra at the perineum is properly activated. How silly to assume anyone would attempt this on a new student. I see complete trust of the guru based upon years of close work together. I see the man who is one of the most important yoga teachers to have ever walk this earth doing THE MOST EFFECTIVE adjustment possible in this situation on two students who were ready for it/could be helped by it. If a video showed him moving his hand in place than it would be wrong. A calm steady gentle pressure is imperative for this assist to be effective. Try it with someone you trust intimately...it works!
We Indians are a horny lot...see our population size
The majority of you "veteran yoga teachers" blah blah blah... who defend the need to press the clitoris with the two middle fingers in order to 'help advanced students locate this or that" are straight up moronic. If they are advanced students, guess what? They know all about their root chakra. Which is about 2 inches off the pelvic floor, not on the surface of the vagina. And guess what? you dont need to use your muscles to "activate" your chakras. oh yes, there is trust here, trust that is being violated. Regardless of this mans history, unfortunately he is a sick old man that loves the feel of warm, "guru subdued", vagina under his gold rings. Can you dig? Many other gurus like this are sexual nut jobs. Take adi dumbass and mr. "im so saintly" Desai as examples of how power hungry the people are who encourage followers.
Pattabhi Jois touched me inappropriately like this several times and called me a bad lady. I said you are a bad teacher and decided I never wanted to take yoga from him ever again. People were lining up to kiss his feet and I was shocked that people worshipped this man. He did not even practice the Ashtanga series after the age of 41. People are so gullible when it comes to yoga gurus from India. Nobody is closer to god than anyone else.
When do Ashtanga Yoga Adjustments cross the line?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2B9nQ-nY2cY
Mysore Boy and all the other very delusional ashtangis.... wake up! In the culture of Inida this is not only not appropriate for a man it is actually extremely illegal. Any India would be disgusted by this and only spiritual tourists would think this is acceptable in any way. Grow some knowledge of the culture outside your very small yoga world.
I say all this from living in the culture of India 6 months of the year. Not taking short vacations in yoga land. (very much like Disneyland)
listen this guy is a freak if he is really trying to help people with yoga you dont need to rest your fingers on the vagina. it looks like he is using an excuse to put pressure on the tailbone to touch vagina. Seriously, if he was still alive I would recommend suing
These western people have made yoga into some kind of sexual joke. It's a shame. You people do not deserve yoga. I am starting to hate these Indian Yogis for introducing it to the spiritless West. Pathetic. If you do not like it then don't practice it. And if u want to practice it then respect it.
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