Guruphiliac: Top Ten Myths About Gurus

Monday, April 04, 2005

Top Ten Myths About Gurus

File under: Hagiographic Circus and The Great White Botherhood

The pursuit of the truth has brought us to many strange and wonderful places, some of which were in the presence of persons considered divine because they are gurus. Around such people constellate clouds of occluding ideology about self-realization, despite the efforts of the guru, or because of them. We've compiled a list of the ten top occluding ideas people hold about their gurus or gurus in general, for your perusal:

10. Guruji knows what's best for you
While we acknowledge the possibility that a real true guru could know what's best for you, s/he'd also know it's best to let you decide for yourself. Gurus who pretend to know what's best for all their devotees are fooling themselves as much as they are their disciples.

9. Guruji can read your mind
Did you ever wonder why people seem so sanctimonious while in the presence of their guru, besides kissing ass by acting joyous or pious. They probably believe that their guru is reading their mind, and all the minds of the devotees in their presence. Or even those not in their presence. The fact is that self-realization confers no special power to read minds, despite the assertions of Patanjali and the Theosophists. There may be some gurus who seem to have a knack for coincidental occurrence, but no more than other people with the same knack.

8. Guruji doesn't feel pain
We were going to suggest cutting off a guru's arm to see if s/he feels pain, but then we realized the shock of the trauma would probably just shut off the pain response. Believe us, gurus feel pain. They may know varying levels of emotional pain as well.

7. Guruji knows all your past lives
More theosophical nonsense. Not that there aren't past lives, and not that they can't be known, but they can't be watched like a movie by a person with the right siddhi. They may see something they believe are your past lives, but it's much more likely to be something made up in their head in the moment, whether they believe it to be the truth or know that it isn't.

6. Guruji knows your future
See number 1. No special powers outside of knowing the truth of self-realization are conferred by self-realization.

5. Guruji knows everything
One of the major occluding expectations about self-realization is the idea that knowing yourself as the whole entails access to all the information in the whole. In truth, self-realization confers just one kind of special knowledge that only knows itself. There is no content there. That's why they call it emptiness. So anything your guru knows s/he knows because they heard it or read it.

4. Guruji has no desires
This is based in the most pervasive of the occluding expectations, that desire somehow prevents self-realization. Desire is merely the way the body responds to conditions. The guru may (or may not) be over sex, but when they want a Twinkie, they go get a Twinkie.

3. Guruji is the avatar
A guru proclaiming themselves to be the living avatar is like the Mission Impossible tape proclaiming it will self-destruct in ten seconds.

2. Guruji is divine
Sure, and so is every other person on the planet, regardless of their spiritual status. Knowing who you really are doesn't change who you've always been in this life. It just adds the knowledge that we are all of the same, one being. Anything else is just publicist bullshit.

1. Guruji can enlighten with a touch
You can have enlightenment in the presence of your guru, but it wasn't because s/he touched you. Transmission or shaktipat gurus merely tap into the power of mind by way of a ruse, the idea that they are God and can do such things. That ruse sometimes captures the mind of the guru just as much as that of the devotees, so they aren't all to be blamed for the subterfuge.


At 4/06/2005 4:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

While it's only a stretch to conclude what is, it's the height of arrogance to conclude what isn't.


At 4/06/2005 4:45 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

so jody, you're saying that you can see from one end of reality to the other and can enumerate what's there and what isn't? I call bullshit on that.

At 4/06/2005 4:47 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 4/06/2005 4:48 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

Show me a positive demonstration of any of the myths I've presented, and I'll post a retraction.

If it doesn't happen in the real world, it don't happen in the guru world. It's straight up magical thinking.

There are medicines you can take for that now.

At 4/06/2005 4:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Q: How do you tell the difference between the limits of your perspective and the limits of reality?

A: You can't.

So let's be humble.

At 4/06/2005 5:07 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had a friend in Berlin who told me that German was the universal language. I told him that if he travelled a little he'd probably arrive at a different conclusion. He took it as an insult.

At 4/06/2005 5:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I read my friend's mind sometimes and she reads mine sometimes.

I have this other friend who tells me that all this mindreading is just coincidence and subliminal posture-reading and the like.

If I press him he cites quantum theory.

What's in a name? Is any map accurate?

Are we all just brainwashed by our respective cultures to the point that all possibility of discerning night from day is utterly out the window?

How do you clean the propoganda out of your eyes? Meditation? What's meditation?

Logic is no good for decomposing one's assumptions. Our eyes are slaves to our thoughts.

At 4/06/2005 5:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

My guru recently viewed my past lives, I forgot my video-camera that day tho.

At 4/06/2005 5:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

How do you tell nonsense from not-nonsense? Consensus?

At 4/06/2005 5:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shall we file your "10 myths" under "fact" or "occluding ideology"?

At 4/06/2005 5:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think it's pretty funny that the people that claim nothing can be proven true or false are the ones that cling most fervently to one particular ideology or another.

Thank you Jody for an excellent blog and an excellent post. I'm subcribing to your feed now.

At 4/06/2005 5:58 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At 4/06/2005 6:01 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

Yo. Bring me a guru who demonstrates any of the myths, and I'll retract.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I've been in the presence of a good number of gurus, but I have yet to see any evidence at all which demonstrates the veracity of any of the myths.

However, I understand the need to hold quaint views about the special powers of the divine. It allows you to think you are close to a magical person who can do magical things for you. It's not much more than holding daddy's hand and/or sucking on mommy's tit.

You can have it.

At 4/06/2005 6:15 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

To the guy who forgot the video camera: How do you know for sure that those were your past lives? You have to take it on faith alone. It could be easily faked.

To mind reading girl: I don't deny the phenomena, I deny the idea that self-realization causes it. We all have paranormal stuff happen to us. It's the assumption that they are more spiritual, or have anything to do with spirituality, that I'm attacking.

The same goes for the Great White Botherhood. It's a myth until one of those dorks plops himself down on my coach. And don't go into the multi-dimensional crap. There is no dimension more spiritual than this one, and no need to go anywhere other than where you are right now.

Conservative white males in whatever plane you place them have as much to do with spiritual truth, as defined by vedanta, as my dog's ass.

At 4/06/2005 7:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Insults never convinced anybody.

How does one know when one's conclusions are drawn from an ideology, vs the alternative?

What's the alternative? I mean, aren't all conclusions drawn from an ideology?

What's evidence?

How does reality work?

At 4/06/2005 7:48 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

All True... But how can you know for sure? Is not your faith and your evidence based on the same guru mania you discredit? Isn't your Guru the modern world? How do you know someone can't read your past lives (err you were a puppy, no, no an Irish Serving Girl who got on the wrong side of...aww splitting headache...)So, do you and James Randi chuckle over Maragitas about what may be real and what is real? Do you go to bed @ night knowing you on the cusp f the 21'stcentury are so much cooler than the Billions of ancestors who have gone before? I mean look @ Newton and co- Theosophists to the core... Not to defend them or attack you... But are you sure in and all knowing way? Just like a guru- Where can I send my bill to?


Guru Dr. Concrescence

At 4/06/2005 7:54 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not just assume that people are sincere in their assertions and are indeed as clearheaded and clearsighted as yourself?

You could write off any differences of opinion to a difference of perspective.

Imagine meeting a person as clearheaded as yourself but with whom you disagreed on every point. What a treasure that would be! How educational!

At 4/06/2005 8:06 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We can't demonstrate the existence of ideas (blips on a graph notwithstanding) but we hold our conclusions dearer than anything.

At 4/06/2005 8:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10. Guruji knows what's best for you
Maybe he does. Who can say? He seems to be a pretty smart guy, well spoken too.

9. Guruji can read your mind
I dunno. It seems like he can sometimes. I definitely have read people's minds before. It happens when I've been meditating alot. I think that you really don't know what you're talking about on this one.

8. Guruji doesn't feel pain
I haven't had a chance to test this one on him :) . I do know that I can be smooth with pain really well when I'm at a certain state of peacefulness/awareness. I heard about those zen monks who can undergo tooth-surgery without novicaine too. You're just being silly here.

7. Guruji knows all your past lives
It's never come up. But why not? Stranger things have happened. I saw some past lives once. Maybe. Hell, I dunno. They seemed like past lives. Is seeming good enough? Do I need to back it up with a respected academician and a book?

6. Guruji knows your future
I sometimes see the future. So does he. It's really not that weird.

5. Guruji knows everything
I think that we have different relationships with our ideas. Here's a question: "what does 'know' mean?". And as for the possibility of omniscience? Ya, it seems quite feasable from where I stand.

4. Guruji has no desires
Ya, I agree. Probably bullshit. I'll stand with you on this one.

3. Guruji is the avatar
beats me. Avatar schmavatar. You don't need to be so mean about it tho.

2. Guruji is divine
I wouldn't touch that term with a 10-foot pole, neither should you. It's just argument bait.

1. Guruji can enlighten with a touch
Well, I've read stories about it happening. I get high in the presence. Does a little enlightenment count?


If you truely wish to communicate, reign in your propensity for insults. It makes you look like a child just wagging his dick in public, despite your sincerety.

The proof of a guru's veracity is ultimately in the pudding. What's the pudding?

At 4/06/2005 9:13 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

Where's the beef?

Bring an example and I'll re-examine my assumptions. As it stands, whether or not the GWB exists, whether or not gurus actually do have magic powers, it's all superfluous nonsense from the regard of Vedanta, and from the regard of common sense.

At 4/06/2005 9:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I was thinking about ice cream today but I can't prove it. Help!

Could you just take my word for it?

At 4/06/2005 9:32 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whenever we make a statement of fact aren't we citing an authority?

I mean, there's no proof of anything. Proof is just a matter of how well a certain authority blows you, relatively speaking.

Some people live for blowjobs. Others are more contemplative.

You can use logic to derive a statement from other statements, but you still need to start with a statement. You still need a foundation-blowjob to kick-off the story.

You ever argue with the tv? Of course not, that would be silly. The tv is just a machine. To argue with it would be a feeble wank at best. Certainly a waste of time. At least with a zealot you have a chance of getting a blowjob.

At 4/06/2005 9:43 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

Regarding "insults" and "dick wagging:" It's part of the style, folks. I'm making fun of it while I critique. Think, but about gurus rather than politicians.

If anyone is insulted by my pointed rendering of bigtime guru devotional dynamics, maybe you need to be looking at yourselves.

I know I don't know everything. And I do believe certain paranormal phenomena occur. But I also know it has nothing to do with self-realization. That is its own kind of special knowledge that is related to everything equally, or related to nothing at all.

You can have your magic gurus and theosophocrats in the sky. Whatever floats your boat. However, it has nothing to do with the nondual truth, which is what self-realization is.

That's all I'm saying.

At 4/06/2005 10:40 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think the saying is "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". I see no need to back my insult up with any information on this argument. And I'm certainly not trying to mock you.

Get it?

At 4/07/2005 2:41 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reading minds? Bah. I want a guru who can read, write, and execute minds.

At 4/07/2005 8:41 AM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

About eating pudding:

It has no taste which can be described, and once eaten, you sure know what it doesn't taste like.

It doesn't taste anything like special magical powers or communing with disembodied "brothers." That's all just a layer of belief sitting on top of the pudding like a layer of dust.

At 4/07/2005 9:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I don't need a guru. I don't need a pope. Everything i need or can become is within myself and it is up to me to develop, stretch, become. People who need or look to a guru are underestimating themselves...and unaware of the old axiom that absolute power corrupts absolutely. If a guru is really "aware" why do they put themselves above others? We recently did a field trip to the Hari Krishna site in Moundsville W. VA. Very interesting history there... degenerated into kidnapping, child brides, summugling, cholera, and oh yeah, murders. The few faithful remaining were still slinging the shit...trying to hook anyone who came close enough. I read, explore, meditate, chant, and i don't need the approval or direction of anyone...and i don't have to turn over my check book or saving account either. I can enjoy any and all of the material world because...get this...the material world is Divine.

At 4/07/2005 9:25 AM, Blogger guruphiliac said...

Yo! Numenorian!

Right the fuck on!

At 4/07/2005 4:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Good stuff. You don't really demonstrate or support much of it, but it all strikes me as true enough. Keep writing.

At 4/07/2005 6:21 PM, Blogger guruphiliac said...


There isn't any way to demonstrate the veracity or lack of it regarding these myths. People interpret their phenomenological experience and suddenly it's magic. I'm suggesting another interpretation, and I'm contending that it's more applicable to the case.

At 4/08/2005 3:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I think I have a headache. Do I have to appeal to the Gods of the Universe or could I simply have an Aspirin? Maybe two?

Zero and nonsense share a remarkable mathematical concept: any multiple equals the single unity.

Always remember - pi are not squared, - pie are round, apple best (with ice cream...Russian preferrably)

Never forget the mathematics of nonsense.

At 4/08/2005 4:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I used to think the brain was the most important part of my body...then I realised who was saying this stuff to me.

At 4/08/2005 8:57 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

When I was bleeding to death from ulcers for the third time (kept coming back, dammit) my gurus were some really beautiful and talented ER nurses.

Reality is so much more fun than just pretending, don't you think?

At 9/16/2005 5:51 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Who was it who said,"If you meet the guru on the path, kill him?" or something like that?

At 8/14/2006 12:22 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


What is a guru and who are you talking about...

Well I might be new or not read the other information!!??


At 8/12/2007 11:42 PM, Blogger Unknown said...

I have been invloved with art of living but i must say i fully agree with you 100 % ...self relizations is no magic ...its just understanding yourself ...not divine thing ...i dont believe all that ...never did in my time spent till now in art of living ....problem with people is knowledge is never good for them in its logic and reasonable purity ...oh no has to scome from a divine source ...i have nothing against this each his own .....

At 10/09/2007 8:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

God has got a TON of explaining to do! Guru's blame US for the way the world is set up which is crazy!
Maybe this is simply the best that God can do! Why blame us for His creative shortcomings?
It is not wether God forgives us, it is wether WE forgive God and each other!
Holding back vital information that could lower suffering is a social crime in a real sense and Guru's present that God withholds healing info because we do not deserve it due to things that we did while in a state of amnesia that they claim God put us into!
IF God constantly takes away our memory and knowledge, then God MUST forgive everyone for everything, if He wants to be considered credible.
Maybe we cannot confirm our past lives because they didn't happen! Even if what the Gurus say is true, still we die when we die because to not remember who we are which includes who we were is just like dying. IF we go on and we don't know it, then who we were is dead and gone in any case.
I don't care if someone is God, to mess with our memories the way Gurus present, is a terrible thing. I do not believe God is like that!
What is worse is to "punish" us for making bad decisions even though the knowledge necessary to make those decisions was taken away by the Person who is punishing us.
Why do these bastard Gurus blame US for what God has done? If there is any blame, that blame is meant for God! Why be afraid to blame God when they are certainly not afraid of blaming everyone else? :-)
If we hold the way they present God to the standard that Gurus hold the regular souls to, God would be the one who supposedly needs rehabilitation, not us!
Gurus project their own mentality onto others. They accuse the average Joe of being envious of God, with only inference as proof, but look at the accusing Gurus, who are actually TAKING God's position at least physically with all the worship!
At this point, other than Gurus who call themselves teachers and act like that, most Gurus truly act like "pimps" for God. It is not constructive, merciful, or confirmed by the realities of the world that we ALL live by.

At 10/23/2007 9:27 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The main problem with the presentation of even sincere Gurus is that they present an "All powerful, all merciful" God and due to the situation with our existence, it is obvious that they cannot have it both ways.
My experience is that God is merciful, but not all powerful, and inadequate when it comes to informing us.
If these scriptures are the word of God, then where is all the detailed information that we need to lower our suffering?
I understand that God inspires us, but why must we figure everything out for ourselves?
In fact many problems that we have to deal with today are a direct result of God not giving information which leads us ultimately to suffering like with the population explosion and He should know that.
It took many millions of years to reach 1 billion and now in about 100 years we are nearing 8 billion people. The planet can only handle about 10 billion at the most and we are realizing with global warming that the earth may not even have the recources to support the people that we have.
Where's the warning about that?
Human society forgot to wash hands during surgery from the fall of the Roman empire until Florence Nightengale. Would an all merciful, all powerful God neglect to remind His children to wash their hands for 1500 years?
There is no denying an intelligent connecting spirit. Unfortunately there is not much more to objectively confirm God's existence, and if there is a God as presented by the Gurus, then He doesn't seem to really care about us in reference to our fundamental needs and that makes it difficult to love Him except on a personal, subjective, and more selfish level.
Where is the practical all merciful God? Gurus come back with mind games and word games, like mercy means "punishment".
Since Gurus cannot prove much about God, can they at least present a God sccenario that is healthy and positive?
They present a super neurotic God who is busy having a kind of neurotic sweet sixteen pissy fit about our attitude instead of taking proper care of us.
When God can live in our shoes, with all the pressures of maintaining our existence, not knowing if we die when our bodies die, seeing our loved ones die, being forced to kill microbes with every breath, constantly being forced to figure everything out, then God will be truly impressive. It must be easy for God to be Himself, how about God trying to be us?
Gurus present that God looks down on us and toys with us like lab rats, and I say let Him be in our shoes if He wants to be so credible to us. Supersoul is not enough to overturn this idea because, for example we can watch the news, like supersoul watches us, all day about the war in Iraq, but that is a far cry from being there!
A true Guru spends his time giving out free Vegan (less suffering for cows) food and helping people from their perspective for their immediate needs as well as their future spiritual life, if indeed our consciousness does survive without out bodies. This way we are helping no matter what and that ain't bad.
To add insult to injury, Gurus use mental tactics to push the mentaly weak into more and more denial by convincing them to give up pleasure for a reward after death. As time goes on and you give up the basic pleasures that help us get through the pains in life, we become less and less likely to see reality in a rational way becasue that reality may mean that they gave up all that pleasuure for nothing!
I am not saying that the basic concept of sense control for a greater postponed pleasure is not many times a good way to go, for example with working out. Putting off pleasure for a higher pleasure is an ability that humans begin to develop at about 4 years old, but when that pleasure is postponed for a greater good beyond life and into a realm that may or may not exist, that is where all the exploitation begins.
Many Gurus are honest and are doing a lot of good. Certainly communing with God is a good message.
A real Guru sticks to what is self evidently true and is respectful to the basic objective standard that society has for truth when teaching their students.
There is nothing wrong with three somple words, "I don't know!" Most Gurus cannot do that because they are attached to their false position as rep of God. God doesn't rep Himself very well, and they do even worse.
My take is that God is very merciful, but even God cannot deal with the problems of creation to the point where we do not have to suffer and die.
Anyone interested in a dialogue?

At 11/19/2007 2:13 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

10 ways to put Guru lessons into the proper updated perspective:

1. Compared to having sex rasa with God, one might as well be in a pigs body as a human body, as sex with God is so much better, however no one is saying that all sex in all bodies is the same, obviously.

2. When living in the Temple student program, one must go through the austerity of denying sex as part of the discipline of the learning environment, that is not to say that sex is detrimental to spiritual life if the intent is loving and nobody can or should even try regulate someone’s intent.

3. If one wants to get pleasure from within, then one must look within and stimulate the inner senses. Both the inner senses and outer senses are not 100% perfect, however with the outer senses, through objectivity using other’s senses as a reference as well as expansion through technology, including creating a static forms such as photos, with study and experimentation to understand repeatable truths, our senses are certainly more than adequate to navigate through this world and even to understand it’s spiritual truths. The last 100 years is the biggest leap in making our senses so much more perfect than ever before, so this idea is outdated.
In the past our sense’s imperfections were enough for us to turn to ideas like spirits control the weather. Now, through science we have an ever improving ability to confirm truth is exactly what one would think that Krishna wants. After putting down everyone's senses, the Gurus go right back to acting based on what we have learned through confirmation of reality through our senses anyway, so who is fooling who? It's just a way to avoid saying "I don't know" but that would be admitting that their teacher is not, or was not "perfect".

4. Bodily platform is a matter of orientation, perspective, and respect for all life. But everyone lives mainly by the bodily concept, like it or not.

5. Guru means teacher, disciple means student.

6. Surrender means register.

7. Perfect means someone who has perfected their Yoga training, that obviously does not mean that they are a perfect person. No one is onjectively perfect and if you think you are humble to "register" lessons with a person you consider perfect, then you just want to be in with "perfect" and you are back to square one.

8. Karma is a concept that is extremely limited, and only relevant to our personal self help. No all merciful God would penalize us for what we do after he takes our memory and continuity of consciousness away as Yogis claim.
God must forgive everyone under the circumstances if He wants to be considered credible.

9. Charging money or pushing for donations at all means doing business.

10. Representative means someone who acts out or in the case of Vedic culture re-inacts concepts and stories about God. Representing that culture does not obviously mean that they have any more of a "connection" to God than anyone else.

At 11/26/2007 8:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

De-volution and Disciplic Succession:

Please join in the discussion...

Devotees see modern man as de-evolving, less intelligent, and going down due to the advent of Kali Yuga 5000 years ago, even though the confirmed evidence is overwhelming that there was no 120,000 years of satya yuga and there were not humans on the planet since it’s beginning, and we are evolving upward. If we are going down, why have a succession, why not just accept what the old Yogis wrote and stop the process of understanding how our world works? The idea that we need someone now to explain because we are "Unfortunate, less intelligent Kali Yuga People" is ludicrous as we only need someone to update the vedas to modern confirmed knowledge. Relative truths or theatrical embellishments do not undermine the intended message of the Vedas so why all the defensiveness and denial? The ice doesn't lie, and we all live by modern science wether we renounce toilet paper or not. :-)
This is why Iskcon and other groups have not considered going vegan even though we know that almost all, if not all dairy farming is cruel to cows to varying degrees, and along with other animal farming is one of the major causes of global warming. Where is the 10,000 year Golden age of Lord Chaitanya if we are about to be evicted from the planet? Yogis claim that it is Krishna that wants milk. He is not lactose intolerant. :-) Does God really want the dairy cows to be treated that way including killing bulls which dairies do? Why deny what goes on in dairies and shrug it off as Krishna's responsibility because He wants burfi? Prabhupada and Iskcon were a leader in veggie live, but now Iskcon has been left in the dust because they do not want to accept the truths that are more than evident around us. Why isn't Iskcon and other Yoga groups leading the way in terms of diet and planet management? The opportunity is there!!

To me the problem is all about being philosophically and scholastically lazy along with a nice dose of elitism. If 50% of the Vedic message is true, but 50% seemed true to the ancients but is now known not to be true, so what? You still have 50% truth! Every religious tradition claims to be literally all true but they cannot all be true because they contradict each other. Now that we have increased our knowledge beyond the imagination of the ancients, fortunately we know so much more about what is true than ever before. Why is that not God’s blessing?

One of the many dangerous mind sets is that it is not that the Vedas are proven wrong in so many ways, but it seems untrue due the fault and "attitude" of the practitioner, because they are not "ready" and they are not fully "surrendered". The evidence, however factual and conclusive, is wrong and only seems right simply because of our attitude and because we are accused of trying to be God? Ha!

Add to that the idea that the Vedic course may last beyond this life and it's easy to see that one must be really desperate or gullible to buy into that kind of nonsense. It’s like in the movie Groundhog day where the guy was living the exact same day over and over again until he went to a shrink and after the shrink heard about the problem, the shrink asked, "Can you come back tomorrow?"

Once an anchorman, after reporting on the devotees, said, "They have an answer for everything". At the time I thought that was a great compliment, but now I realize that in way too many cases the truth is that they have a convenient "excuse" for everything.

Is there is anyone out there who would like to take part in a discussion or who would like to point out any problems in my presentation? Please join in.....


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