Monday, April 16, 2007

India... Grow Up!

The Hindu fundies go berserk because Richard Gere plants a kiss or two on the cheek of an Indian woman at a charity event. These folks are dragging you down, Bharat. Shake them off and come join the rest of the world.

Having said that, we suppose we should get to work flicking Christian fundies from our midst here in the States. We're at least as bad, and could easily make the case for being even a bit worse. Believing you'll die and end up in Vrindaban frolicking with gopis isn't any different than denying all world history before 10,000 years ago.

In other words – speaking as an American – we are just as saddled with superstition as any other nation. However, India has something we and all these other nations don't: the Upanishads. They are the literal crown-jewels of all religious philosophy – according to this blog.

Do something with that, Bharat. Set the example after having written the recipe, rather than sticking it on the shelf and continuing to cook with the myths and fables that pass for your diet of truth these days.

28 Comments:

At 4/16/2007 11:03 AM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

The Hindu fundies go berserk because Richard Gere plants a kiss or two on the cheek of an Indian woman at a charity event.


~~~ The kiss is never a problem.
In Bharat, it is quite acceptable these days. But what could be a problem is the way richie boy lunged over her with such thrust and passion. Especially it was an AIDS awareness meet, which is pretty overboard for even american standards. Cant blame richie, the woman is sinfully pretty !!!!


In anycase jody, i always thought you have enough guru stuff to grind for a lifetime.. now where does this useless piece of blurb fit in to this holy space of Gp ??

 
At 4/16/2007 11:15 AM, Blogger jody said...

where does this useless piece of blurb fit in

It ties to India's penchant for useless superstition, which is the source for all things occluding in gurudom. In other words, a country that freaks out over a harmless display of affection is one that continues to cling to completely outmoded fairy tales and nonsense superstition. For instance, Amma's org asking for money to mitigate the effects of a solar eclipse. Come on, people!

 
At 4/16/2007 11:40 AM, Anonymous Anon said...

In other words, a country that freaks out over a harmless display of affection is one that continues to cling to completely outmoded fairy tales and nonsense superstition.
Umm... don't quite see the connection here, J
Its not like the entire country is freaking out. Far from it. Some fundies (who are otherwise useful to have around to combat other religion fundies) are. And other people who would not give a sh*t to the kiss can be extremely superstitious too. In other words prudishness and superstition need not go hand in hand.

 
At 4/16/2007 5:03 PM, Anonymous freefall said...

It ties to India's penchant for useless superstition, which is the source for all things occluding in gurudom.

Come on, Jody! It is overstretch.

Seems someone else has the need to grow up.

 
At 4/16/2007 5:51 PM, Blogger jody said...

Come on, Jody! It is overstretch.

Opinion noted. Mine is that superstition about self-realization is the number one preventative factor.

Seems someone else has the need to grow up.

Well... yeah. I've never denied that.

 
At 4/16/2007 6:28 PM, Blogger Stuart said...

The "Grow Up!" title reminds me of something I've been contemplating lately. The mind of a child is glorified by many spiritual types; Jesus said to become like little children, Ammachi's followers call themselves her children, etc.

Even I recognize that children have some nice qualities. They can be simple and innocent and loving.

But among the virtues of children, one thing conspicuously lacking is intelligence. Kids are *stupid*.

I have no problem with anyone keeping the mind of a child, if that's what works for them. By I sure don't expect to find wisdom emerging from such a mind.

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm

 
At 4/17/2007 2:00 AM, Anonymous Anon. said...

ALso, remember that Protesting in India is a job (a well paying one too, with bonuses for burning effigy etc.) and we shouldnt condemn them for just doing their job. In fact such innovative employment is good for the indian economy. More power to them!

 
At 4/17/2007 5:15 AM, Anonymous P. George Stewart said...

I don't have a problem with Jody's
general point, but in this instance
I have to say that Shilpa herself
was a bit discumbobulated by Gere's
faux pas, and was heard to say
something like "that's a bit much".
Also, she doesn't look very happy
in the pictures I've seen. Had it
been rehearsed, and she'd gone along with it, then no problem at all.

So my criticism would be more along
the lines of it being inappropriate
on personal social skills grounds.

 
At 4/17/2007 7:38 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Come on, Jody, it's not like the fundies set fire to train loads of people and burned them alive! Fundies are great people, they get violent over a kiss but encourage women to be treated like property and do little to help millions of their poor countrymen living in plastic tents and working for scraps. They are much like our American fundies but they also set fire to people...

 
At 4/17/2007 8:45 AM, Anonymous Matthew said...

Come on, Jody! It is overstretch.

Opinion noted. Mine is that superstition about self-realization is the number one preventative factor.
..................

The kiss has nothing to do with self-realization
nor with superstition. It has to do with cultural
protocol.
Are you becoming just like those you
write about? Using the faintest, most abstract connections to prop up your view points?

 
At 4/17/2007 8:53 AM, Blogger jody said...

It has to do with cultural
protocol.


And superstition is cultural protocol in India, to the detriment of nondual truth.

Are you becoming just like those you write about?

That depends on your point of view, I guess.

 
At 4/17/2007 8:55 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

But among the virtues of children, one thing conspicuously lacking is intelligence. Kids are *stupid*.

Dear Stuart,
I don't get this statement...what, exactly, do you mean by "intelligence"? and by "stupid"? By *stupid*, do you mean not yet encultured? not educated? not "intellectually sophisticated"? Certainly you must not mean "stupid" as it is defined by the Oxford English Dictionary:"lacking keenness of mind, slow-thinking, dull- witted,witless, dumb"? A clarification of terms would be appreciated.
anonymus

 
At 4/17/2007 8:58 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>" But what could be a problem is the way richie boy lunged over her with such thrust and passion."<<<
Gosh, this sounds pretty serious...."thrust and passion" and "lunging" on top of that! Anybody here with repressed sexual issues?
anonymus

 
At 4/17/2007 9:02 AM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

~~~~India is huge. Most populous.
You find a bunch of people to follow any ideology, the noble and the ignoble. But in any case the majority keeps going about their lives unruffled. Like me. After i saw richie boy antics on TV, i rolled a good reefer and smoked it too. Then shuffled channels and watched F TV(no chuckji it is not your F).

India is growing up indeed. A wild growth. A bit disorganized. More than growth i think its about tuning herself to the rest of the world. Not to remain isolated, living in the dead, past 10,000 year old glory, but wake up to see the present reality. And by all means, as jody pointed out, apply the upanishad wisdom in real life, kicking all the occlusions beyond everest.

Thanks jody for the wake up call...

 
At 4/17/2007 9:33 AM, Anonymous Chuck said...

semblance said...Thanks jody for the wake up call...

..............

Whew! For a second there, semblance, I thought you were getting fundy on Richy your own self. I thought you were offended that a white heathen bastard had jumped the fence into you corral and was gettin with your private herd! Plus the dude is old! I'm thinkin of comin to India soon to get my false teeth, laser eye surgery, hearing aide, and triple wide by pass all at the same time before the prices go up over there as high as thgey are in Housto, Dallas or Austin!

Glad to see you just needed to rollanother fat one to calm yourself down about that kiss!

 
At 4/17/2007 9:44 AM, Anonymous taj said...

All the folks talking about this being a cultural issue - there is NO disconnect between religion, superstition and popular culture in this country. At this point in time, it is meaningless to talk about them as separate.

That said, my dream is that these things DO become separate - but it will take effort to fight the superstition and ignorance. While we are still talking about whether or not a girl is a manglik, or complaining about a kiss at an event for raising awareness of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF TRUCKERS SPREADING AIDS TO EPIDEMIC LEVELS (capped to put these idiots' priorities in perspective), we deserve all the ridicule we receive for our herd mentality and blind credulity.

 
At 4/17/2007 9:46 AM, Anonymous Betty said...

I think that one of the points that Jody is trying to make here is that many people take superficial cultural beliefs as Truth. In the West we have been fed Indian cultural beliefs as spiritual facts: Ammachi is God, Sai Baba works miracles before and after diddling little boys, Maharishi teaches people to fly... The first big push was Yogananda's bullshit autobiography. Indians may be able to believe and disbelieve this shit at the same time because it's their culture. Like an 8 year old can believe in Santa Claus because she loves the stuff, but know that it's bullshit. Westerners have trouble with that. We want things to be true or false, so we get on with the business of distroying the world. Just a difference in cultures. I don't know which one is the more sickening.

 
At 4/17/2007 9:53 AM, Blogger jody said...

The first big push was Yogananda's bullshit autobiography.

Good call, Betty! I concur. That poor Vivekananda copycat fucked it up real good.

 
At 4/17/2007 9:55 AM, Blogger jody said...

we are still talking about whether or not a girl is a manglik

Send all your mangliks to me, Raj! I will treat them as the goddesses they are (provided they are cute goddesses.)

 
At 4/17/2007 10:02 AM, Anonymous taj said...

(following up...)

Sitting in Delhi, I fully understand what it feels like for foreigners documenting and criticizing our ancient, complex and deeply ingrained cultural legacy, as Jody did here, or Dalrymple did with his books. In fact people in any country react the same way - (gross generalization:) folks in the US, for example, are allowed to bitch about their country as much as they like but they're defensive and not quite as accepting of external critique.

But this stuff needs to be said, and if its not coming loud and clear from folks within the country (forget our leaders - we have few that are worthy of the title), then it is our fault that we hear it first from elsewhere.

 
At 4/17/2007 10:11 AM, Blogger jody said...

folks in the US, for example, are allowed to bitch about their country as much as they like but they're defensive and not quite as accepting of external critique

Know this, Raj: there are millions in this country who are with the external critique in every way. Many of us are acutely aware of what dumbshits we look like. We face the reality of it every time we open a newspaper to read about another completely idiotic move our government is contemplating next.

 
At 4/17/2007 10:20 AM, Anonymous taj said...

Know this, Raj:

That's taj - I know I don't post on your excellent blog as often as I could, but I sorta figured that we could have sorted out my name by now. ;)

I'm aware of sentiment in the US, both from news, the net and from my last trip there a few weeks ago. Things have definitely changed in the last few years, but IMHO my "gross generalization" has been borne out by history for quite a while.

(I'll send you a few mangliks once I sort out the duplicates in my collection...)

 
At 4/17/2007 10:25 AM, Blogger jody said...

That's taj

Er... duh! No... wait. I'm having a vision... Ahh..., I can see that you were a KING in your past life. That is why I called you Raj!

my "gross generalization" has been borne out by history for quite a while.

I agree. We are a country of idiots as well.

 
At 4/17/2007 3:09 PM, Blogger Stuart said...

Anonymous wrote:
> what, exactly, do you mean by
> "intelligence"? and by "stupid"?
> By *stupid*, do you mean not yet
> encultured? not educated? not
> "intellectually sophisticated"?

I mean "stupid" in the sense that children tend to believe everything they're told. This is correct behavior for children: we're born without the skills to live independently, so we can only survive by blindly following others for a while.

Time goes by, we gather experience after experience, and we learn that when someone tells us something, we can compare it to our own experience to see if it makes sense. That's called being more independent.

So for example: Satya Sai Baba claims he can materialize a watch out of thin air, and proceeds to demonstrate it. A child, or someone with the mind of a child, will believe him. An adult, though, may have some experience (perhaps having viewed a Vegas magic act) to suggest that Satya Sai is playing make-believe.

I'm not claiming that this is a matter of super-dooper importance... but when it comes to the magical powers of Satya Sai and others with similar claims, the mind of a child lacks the critical tools to judge truthfulness.

To return to the general ballpark of on-topicness... the fact that Satya Sai can draw such a huge following of believers suggests that lots of adults out there haven't "grown up."

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm

 
At 4/18/2007 1:39 PM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

I thought you were offended that a white heathen bastard had jumped the fence into you corral and was gettin with your private herd!

~~~ hokay ! Chuck !! For some reason i always thought he is a heathen chink dude. Perhaps this is after i saw his mugshot more in japan than anywhere else. Two fine young japenese ladies told me, that he is famous in japan only because hes got the chink look. I'd like to watch him only during spare time between grilling the sandwich and rolling my joint in the kitchen. Tom hanks is my latest greatest hero especially after watching 'The Terminal' few days ago on HBO.


Shave richy's top and wrap him with maroon robes, he can easily vanish into the waves of refugees that swirl down from the slopes of tibet across Mcleodganj into India...Even if he jumped into my compound i would make him rub the ripened weeds in my backyard and sleep him under the neem tree in the northwest corner.

 
At 4/19/2007 7:35 AM, Anonymous Chuck said...

semblance said...i would make him rub the ripened weed in my backyard and sleep him under the neem tree in the northwest corner.
...........................

Truly a beautiful phrase, semblance. I mean it, this could be a line from a Walt Whitman poem or out of a love song sung by Skeeter Davis. Have to admit it is a little suggestive comin from a young man but Walt was also turned that way and he's OK with me. Besides it might help you get that temple goddess job!

 
At 4/19/2007 4:15 PM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

Truly a beautiful phrase, semblance. I mean it, this could be a line from a Walt Whitman poem or out of a love song sung by Skeeter Davis

~~~~ Chuckji! incidentally whitman was my first adventure in poetry (was not even knowing that he was a yankee doodle)and all my prattlings on paper, during english class back in college, which miserably reflected his similar obsession for nature like grass, sky and dust etc.

Later, I found his 'Leaves Of Grass' in the form of a cheap paper back, hidden beneath million other books, sold for peanuts, at some shady corner in Flora Fountain, Mumbai. Now a days i dont write poetry. Because no one understands it, including me.


Besides it might help you get that temple goddess job!

~~~~~ Chuck ! I thought You'd tag along for that. I wouldnt mind doing most things for that job, except putting the tongue out !
I think you can do something in that area...

 
At 4/20/2007 7:40 AM, Anonymous Chuck said...

Good old Walt! Another fellow someone tried to make into the greatest example of Cosmic Consciousness in the history of the world. Maybe not but a great poet and had read the Upanishads in one kind of translation. That's for sure. Wonder what he'd think of all these people like Ammachi, Karunamayi, Sai Baba, etc, claiming to be God--more God per ounce than the average guy or gal-- and using symbolic acts of human kindness (hugging), hospital buildings along with a huge personal home (Karunamayi), and faked miracles (Sly Baboon)to "prove" they are gods. Walt was a lot more honest.

 

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