Nithyananda Blesses Arunachala With A New Orifice
File under: Gurubusting, Gurus Clockin' Dollars and The Siddhi of PR
Here's proof that Swami Nithyananda has raped the holy mountain of Arunachala in Tiruvannamalai, Tamil Nadu, India, beloved of the nondual saint, Ramana Maharshi, who is arguably the father of modern nondual thought. We know, that's a bullshit term and Ramana would strenuously disagree, but regardless, behold the destruction of a world treasure by a ridiculously grandiose and insanely self-promoting fauxvatar:
(Click for a larger image)
Take a look at the size of that parking lot! That's a lot of natural habit ravished beyond any ecological value to the locals, India, or the world, not to mention the many species of plants and animals, some possibly endangered, that depended on that jungle before it became a new asshole ripped into a holy mountain by the local-boy-who-made-it-big-in-the-States-as-a-saint, so-now-we're-going-to-let-him-do-whatever-the-f*%k-he-wants.
Locals are informing us that this is the closest building to the top of the mountain now, stepping Nithyananda up into a whole new, higher realm of the commercialization of Ramana Maharshi's spirituality. He's the native son who made "good", if you can consider the cultural and physical rape of a treasured spiritual landmark and the absolute pillaging of the local environment, not to mention the scarily fascist-looking marketing materials, as good:
He's the leader of the lingams here. We haven't quite decided what that really says about him, other than he's still the Peacock Guru in our eyes.
Labels: Gurubusting, Gurus Clockin' Dollars, The Siddhi of PR
posted by guruphiliac @ 7:55 PM
200 Comments:
They paved paradise, put up a parking lot, La La la
I went past this God forsaken place 2 months ago and you should have seen the size of his lingam!! I mean, this huge great black mother-fucker right in the yard as you went in, the most obscene "Here I am" monument to the I-am-the-greatest-guru-come-and-get-me I ever saw! Strangely now it's disappeared I don't know where it went to, probably vapourised into thin air and turned up in California but really, this type of arrogant self-promotion is more than most of us can take. And did you see his eyes on the posters? Makes me shiver. Beginning to think David Icke was right. Where's my reptile repellent?
Who is writing his stuff? It obviosly isnt him. Too slick. What a loser. Lifebliss Solutions shit i should give up my day job
Jody,of all the gurus whom you have busted,do you think this guy is the most good looking of them?
I think he is really handsome.:-)
I know you once felt in love with Gurumayi,so there's no doubt she's no. 1 (among the gurunis)in your heart :-D
It seems to me that holy mountain goes well with the new holy temple. Many temples are built on mountains. In the Thai forest tradition, the monks built monasteries near the forests. Are they raping the forest also.
I don't know about you, but the word rape is a very strong word to use on someone. In this case it seems totally exaggerated , and blown out to use the word rape on someone who is building a holy temple on a holy mountain.
What is the intention of this blog actually? So much hatred can be seen reflected in these twisted announcement, with no signs of neutrality.
In the Thai forest tradition, the monks built monasteries near the forests. Are they raping the forest also.
If that forest space was at a premium as it is in Arunachala, then yes, they are.
In this case it seems totally exaggerated
Your bias for self-aggrandizing gurus over nature is noted.
and blown out to use the word rape on someone who is building a holy temple on a holy mountain.
Arunachala cannot be made more holy, it can only be made less holy by nightmarishly commercial gurudom like Nithyananda's.
What is the intention of this blog actually?
To let everyone know that self-realization doesn't make anyone any more holy than anyone else, that enlightenment doesn't bring any more divinity than we all already have.
So much hatred can be seen reflected in these twisted announcement
Actually, it's exasperation. But you can think of it as hatred if you are unable to make such a distinction.
with no signs of neutrality.
I've been watching Nithyananda for a couple of years now. He's a full blown case of runaway narcissism, just like pretty much every other big-time guru going today.
Quote (Jody)-
:"If that forest space was at a premium as it is in Arunachala, then yes, they ( the Thai Monks) are (raping the forest). "
That is your personal opinion. You can also say that the holy temple complements the holy mountain .
Quote (Jody):
"Your bias for self-aggrandizing gurus over nature is noted."
Again, that is your personal assumption. Nature and spiritual people goes well together. In fact, many zen monastery and retreats are usually built next to nature. It is because of the positive, uplifting, and healing effects that can easily be felt amidst the natural atmosphere. If someone wants to be close to nature , it doesn't automatically mean that they are trying to rape nature, but it can also be that they want to be close to nature because they love nature.
Quote (Jody):
"Arunachala cannot be made more holy, it can only be made less holy by nightmarishly commercial gurudom like Nithyananda's."
Whether a guru is " nightmarishly" or not that is not an establish fact but your own opinion based on supperfical observations of factors such as age and looks, or because he is building a holy temple on holy grounds.
Many people are healed and transformed by him also , but you don't seem to see that. Just building a holy temple on holy ground is turned into a "rape" by you. It seems to be distortion of events.
Quote (Jody):
"To let everyone know that self-realization doesn't make anyone any more holy than anyone else, that enlightenment doesn't bring any more divinity than we all already have."-
"That art Thou" has been in spiritual literature for eons. It is easy to say or repeat it. But honestly speaking, are we really experiencing our inner divinity and expressing it in our lives, or are we just parroting yet goes on to be critical instead of seeing the divinity in others around us. If you are really able to see divinity within yourself, how come you are unable to see divinity in others, or the good things that they do?. Saying one thing and does the opposite only makes one a hypocrite.
Quote(Jody):
"Actually, it's exasperation. But you can think of it as hatred if you are unable to make such a distinction."
When building a holy temple on a holy hill is reported as " raping" , it is a clear exaggeration, not exasperation.
Quote (Jody) :
" I've been watching Nithyananda for a couple of years now. He's a full blown case of runaway narcissism, just like pretty much every other big-time guru going today."
Just because you look at all Gurus through shattered-lenses, you think all Gurus are narcissis without the ability to make clear distinction between a true Guru or false one. How can someone who dislike Gurudom be qualified to determine a Guru's authenticity. We need a more unbiased and neutral point of view. Not someone who is against the idea of Guru.
Jody, you said that you have been watching this Nithyananda guy for a couple of years. Do you think he is delusional?
This Nithyananda claims he can give enlightenment to anyone, at least to truly want it. Many of his slave sevaks wants enlightenment so much that they slaves their lives away in the hope of being bestowed the grace of enlightenment.
You can also say that the holy temple complements the holy mountain.
That's just another opinion. Let's compare. I don't like Nithyananda's temple because he has encroached on the wild area around Arunachala, more so than any other organization, tearing up the local habitat in the process; versus, you believe the already holy mountain can be made more holy by a wholesale ecological destruction.
Nature and spiritual people goes well together.
Just like that huge parking lot goes with all the plants and animals, no doubt a few rare or endangered, that used to live there.
In fact, many zen monastery and retreats are usually built next to nature. It is because of the positive, uplifting, and healing effects that can easily be felt amidst the natural atmosphere.
Nobody is saying nature and an ashram are incompatible. I am saying that an international treasure should be respected by a guru, not desecrated with a huge parking lot.
If someone wants to be close to nature , it doesn't automatically mean that they are trying to rape nature, but it can also be that they want to be close to nature because they love nature.
By bulldozing a massive parking lot? It is clearly a sign of ambition and hubris, rather than a love of nature, in my opinion.
Whether a guru is " nightmarishly" or not that is not an establish fact but your own opinion based on supperfical observations of factors such as age and looks
That billboard with the lingams says it all: the great guru standing ABOVE a thousand symbols of Shiva.
My opinion is based on the fact that Nithy is using superstition and myth about the powers of the guru to promote himself. That's what makes him a bad guru, regardless of how much good some may find in him.
or because he is building a holy temple on holy grounds.
Let's make one thing perfectly clear: no matter how many homas are performed, no matter how many lingams are installed, nor how big; the holiness of that place will always remain ENTIRELY a matter of opinion.
Many people are healed and transformed by him also , but you don't seem to see that.
I do see it, and I know why it happens. It has nothing to do with any power Nithy possesses. It is pure neurological functioning. We can heal ourselves with a little bit of a ruse every now and then. Nithy is nothing more than a grandiose placebo in this regard.
Just building a holy temple on holy ground is turned into a "rape" by you. It seems to be distortion of events.
That depends on how much you care for the environment, I guess.
"That art Thou" has been in spiritual literature for eons. It is easy to say or repeat it. But honestly speaking, are we really experiencing our inner divinity and expressing it in our lives, or are we just parroting yet goes on to be critical instead of seeing the divinity in others around us.
Inner divinity is always expressed in a life. There can be no more expression of what is. We may conform to our core values and the norms of various religions, and thus regard ourselves as being more expressive of the divine, but the fact is that it's all right here, right now, no question about it.
Whether I'm parroting anything or not is moot. It's made very clear in the Upanishads. This is it. Coming to know yourself as the Atman doesn't make you any different than you were before you saw yourself as that.
If you are really able to see divinity within yourself, how come you are unable to see divinity in others, or the good things that they do?.
I can see the good they do. It's a maxim of this blog: very bad gurus can be great for the right devotee. However, by projecting the idea that self-realization makes you somehow magically divine—a veritable God on Earth—gurus do much greater harm than they could ever fix with a bit of faith healing.
Nithy either knows he is absolutely no different than you or I, regardless of our state of spiritual understanding, or he is a grandiose fool. I can imagine him knowing the former, but deciding to play the game because it would give him the greatest reach, allowing him to help the most people. But using these myths to make oneself more popular essentially blocks the sun of nondual truth.
But tearing up a new parking lot closer to Arunachala than anything built before is a gross act, seemingly laden with a ponderous hubris, and tragically destructive to the local environment.
When building a holy temple on a holy hill is reported as " raping" , it is a clear exaggeration, not exasperation.
Your opinion, apparently based on a contempt for the environment, noted.
Just because you look at all Gurus through shattered-lenses
I'd say I look at gurus through the lens of Vedantic truth, but your mileage may vary. BTW: it's not all gurus. That is your exaggeration.
you think all Gurus are narcissis without the ability to make clear distinction between a true Guru or false one.
I know close to 15 folks I'd call a true guru.
I'm not saying Nithyananda isn't a true guru. I'm saying he's an ambitious guru who is plowing down Paradise to put up a parking lot. I'm also saying that making himself God for his devotees is a double-edged sword. He can help people by giving them someone to believe in, but the erroneous idea about self-realization that results only impedes their spiritual progress.
How can someone who dislike Gurudom be qualified to determine a Guru's authenticity.
I dislike the myths of gurudom and the gurus who employ those myths.
We need a more unbiased and neutral point of view.
It's a wide-open, free internet. Have at it.
Not someone who is against the idea of Guru.
While it may serve your purpose to characterize me as against the idea of guru, I am not. I am against the idea that self-realization, as defined in the Upanishads, makes you anything different than you already are. The reason I am against this idea is because it fosters a concept that only can occlude our truth as the Atman.
I didn't say that the mountain can be made more holy. My point is that it is an exaggeration on your side to refer to the building of a temple as a rape. I am begining to wonder whether all the other factors in the post are true to the letter or is it just " creative writing" using exaggerated terms to describe an event to create a desired effect that you wanted.
Quote (jody):
"no doubt a few rare or endangered, that used to live there."
The temple is a small area at the very edge of the mountain, it is not deep within the mountain. I highly doubt that it is as you portray things to be. Whether rare or endangered species used to live in that small section at the edge or not we don't know for sure. So let's not put that on others without knowing for sure. Also , considering it's location at the edge, I don't think that they even need to clear as much trees as you portray it to be. Things do get blown out of proportion in this blog, so there are many factors that I need to consider before actually buying things as you portray it to be.
Quote (jody):
"it depends on how much you care for the environment, I guess"
Haven't it occurred to you that many environmental activist live amidst nature? That is how you can directly experience the positive effects that nature can have on a person. That is what give rise to the strong inspiration and love for nature. By living close to nature Henry David Thoreau was able to share his experiences in the book " Walden" encouraging people to become close to nature and have direct contact . In fact, I hope that in the future people will live in habitat surrounded by plants and nature. The direct contact will have a positive effect on them , from there the love for nature will increase. So don't be so quick to judge someone's intention when they move close to nature, or judging it as a rape .
Quote (jody):
Your opinion, apparently based on a contempt for the environment, noted.
You can jump to any conclusion which you decide to. Whether I am a nature lover or not only I will know, you can't say that you know for sure.
Quote (jody):
That billboard with the lingams says it all: the great guru standing ABOVE a thousand symbols of Shiva.
Anyways, my friend, the art of judging the authenthicity of a guru is more than just interpreting billboards, or looking at his age or looks, or picking at things like building a temple closer the hill than you would prefer.
Quote (jody):
My opinion is based on the fact that Nithy is using superstition and myth about the powers of the guru to promote himself.
You keep referring to the idea of the a guru as supperstition and myth. According to Yogananda,a guru's help is transferred to the disciple primarily on the inner spiritual plane rather than through material means. Upanishad is the direct trasformation of the light while sitting in silence with the True Guru ( I don't mean any Guru can do this).It is not necessary for a disciple to be in the company of the guru in order to receive his blessings. What is most important is to be spiritually in tune with the guru . A guru helps to develop in the disciple the " single eye" of wisdom and intuition whereby the disciple may act wisely out of his own free choice. A guru disciplines the disciple only until the latter can guide himself through his own unfolding wisdom.
Quote (jody):
We can heal ourselves with a little bit of a ruse every now and then. Nithy is nothing more than a grandiose placebo in this regard.
I am not saying that the placebo effect doesn't play any role in healing. If you are an expert on using the placebo effect to heal, let's see put your expertise on the placebo effect to use and teach others to heal using the placebo effect. What makes the placebo effect works? And why does it work so effectively in Nithyananda's case? Don't you need to drop your ego and allow energy to flow through you to others you are healing? Depak Chopra and others already talked a lot about the ability of our mind to effect matter. Bruce Lipton talked about it in " Biology of Belief" . But not many of us are successfully applying it in our lives. It's nice to see somebody like Nithyananda who actually put these theories into practice with great success and are teaching others to do the same.
.
Quote (jody):
Inner divinity is always expressed in a life. There can be no more expression of what is. We may conform to our core values and the norms of various religions, and thus regard ourselves as being more expressive of the divine, but the fact is that it's all right here, right now, no question about it.
A lion being raised by sheep , after being told that it is a lion not a sheep, that doesn't make the lion any more lion than it already is . That is given. But there is a difference between a sheep-lion that actually begin to express its nature as a lion and live like one, and a sheep-lion that heard the truth but continue to go on and live like a sheep as before. That's just what I think.
Quote (jody):
Whether I'm parroting anything or not is moot. It's made very clear in the Upanishads. This is it. Coming to know yourself as the Atman doesn't make you any different than you were before you saw yourself as that.
I agree it doesn't make you any more holy than you already are, but if you truly believe in and experience your inner divinity, you will express it in your life. And that is what I see Nithyananda doing when he shares his inner divinity with others by teaching people to awaken to their inner divinity and teaching them to heal themselves and others. You can go around and repeat " You Are That" to everyone , but if you yourself doesn't show any signs of divinity, how is that going to have any effects on others. You may interpret Nithyananda's expression of his inner divinity as self- aggrandizement, but before he can say to others that " You Are That" he first expresses his divinity to others as a preliminary step before they have enough faith to follow his example and express it in their lives.
Quote (jody):
However, by projecting the idea that self-realization makes you somehow magically divine—a veritable God on Earth—
Self-realization doesn't make you somehow magically divine- because according to the Upanishad - you ARE already divine. This shows that what you repeated from the Upanishad is not an experience in yourself and therefore doesn't know how to live it. How can you teach it to others, what will others get from it if you yourself are not convinced of the truth and be transformed by the truth. Again, it is an exaggeration to make claims on your blog about showing others that we are already divine. You yourself doesn't believe that we are Divine in nature, and still think that it is somehow a myth or self promoting to live and express it.
Quote (jody):
I can imagine him knowing the former, but deciding to play the game because it would give him the greatest reach, allowing him to help the most people. But using these myths to make oneself more popular essentially blocks the sun of nondual truth.
He said "The only difference between you and I is that I know I am divine, and you as yet do not know." Since that truth already exists in us, we cannot achieve it ; we just need to become aware of it , that's all." Nithyananda teaches people to realize their inner divinity. He said that we are all born with divinity within ourselves. It is the awareness of this divinity within us that is missing in most of us.
It is on the internet, I thought you have been researching closely , how can you come to a conclusion without even understanding clearly what it is that he teaches.You haven't heard him teaching this and go on to imagine what you want to imagine and mislead people. You need to throughly know about a person's teaching before making a hasty conclusion about somebody or forming an unsubstantial conclusion or imagination.
Quote (jody):
BTW: it's not all gurus. That is your exaggeration.
Below you say " I dislike the myth of gurudom" , in your blog I rarely see the fairly weighing of pros and cons of a Guru. In fact, the many positive things that they do for the lives of others are not even mentioned or reduced to zero, but every little thing like age ,looks, building a temple, are blown out of proportion.
Quote (jody):
can help people by giving them someone to believe in, but the erroneous idea about self-realization that results only impedes their spiritual progress.
From what I read of Nithyananda's teachings , he teaches the direct path. That is to drop both chasing. Whether it is a materialistic activity or a spiritual activity, as long as we have a goal , we can never relax, we will only be struggling. A person who surrenders to the flow of life experiences and enjoys both the inner space and outer space at the same time. If we don't choose between materialistic life and spriritual life we fall into our Being.
Quote (jody):
I dislike the myths of gurudom and the gurus who employ those myths.
Just because one doesn't know about the impact of having a true guru, doesn't mean that it is a myth. I used to have to same misconception, so it is understandable why somebody would think that gurus are unnecessary. The thing is a guru will show up only when a disciple is ready, until then there is no need to search for a guru. Even if you are face to face with a someone who is a capable guru, he won't be your guru.
My point is that it is an exaggeration on your side to refer to the building of a temple as a rape.
And I will make the point that the above is only your opinion.
I am begining to wonder whether all the other factors in the post are true to the letter or is it just "creative writing" using exaggerated terms to describe an event to create a desired effect that you wanted.
Closest building to a holy mountain, complete with the bulldozing of the local natural habitat, equals the rape of the environment, in my opinion, your attempts at counterpropaganda aside.
The temple is a small area at the very edge of the mountain, it is not deep within the mountain.
The flora and fauna use(d) that place too. Only now they have less since Nithy destroyed some of their habitat.
Haven't it occurred to you that many environmental activist live amidst nature?
But they usually don't bulldoze the jungle to do so.
the art of judging the authenthicity of a guru is more than just interpreting billboards, or looking at his age or looks, or picking at things like building a temple closer the hill than you would prefer.
Actually, standing above a thousand Shivas is a very strong statement. And I guess I need to remind you again that I'm not calling Nithy inauthentic, I'm saying he's ambitious, and that his perpetuation of myths about realization does much more harm than any good he believes he's doing, not to mention the environmental destruction he's already done.
You keep referring to the idea of the a guru as supperstition and myth.
No, I am referring to myths about self-realization, and how gurus use those myths to build themselves up to their target audience, as Nithy is doing like crazy.
According to Yogananda, a guru's help is transferred to the disciple primarily on the inner spiritual plane rather than through material means.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. Here is my opinion: the above is superstitious claptrap. It's how I find much of Yogananda's writing.
Upanishad is the direct trasformation of the light while sitting in silence with the True Guru ( I don't mean any Guru can do this).
And that True Guru is our very own Atman, and can only ever be our very own Atman. No guru can do "it." They can only point to who we are, not make us who we are.
What is most important is to be spiritually in tune with the guru.
This relies on a wholly erroneous folk theory of enlightenment. That theory states that enlightened people radiate the energy of enlightenment, and that this energy can be transferred from its source, the guru's enlightenment, to the student.
If this were actually the case, we'd all be well enlightened by now.
let's see put your expertise on the placebo effect to use and teach others to heal using the placebo effect.
I didn't say I was an expert. One doesn't need expertise to be able to choose a much more sensible explanation.
What makes the placebo effect works?
Neurological structures in the brain.
And why does it work so effectively in Nithyananda's case?
No more effective than than any other big-time guru, and all effective because of neurological features of the human mind, not any special power in the guru.
Don't you need to drop your ego and allow energy to flow through you to others you are healing?
Egos don't drop, they are seen through. What's left over is a "clear" ego, rather than one tied up with an ahamkara.
It's nice to see somebody like Nithyananda who actually put these theories into practice with great success and are teaching others to do the same.
Too bad he's a sand-storm of occluding nonsense about the truth of self-realization.
But there is a difference between a sheep-lion that actually begin to express its nature as a lion and live like one, and a sheep-lion that heard the truth but continue to go on and live like a sheep as before.
That's all predicated on the difference between sheep and lions. Brahman doesn't see that difference. The story is moot.
We can say there are four kinds of people. Those who know the Self, those who've heard of the Self and are trying hard to know it, those who have heard of the Self and don't care to know it, and those who've never heard of the Self. In actual fact, they are all the Self equally. And, they are all equal in their expression of their divinity.
This isn't to say it's not worthwhile to know the Self, this isn't to say it's not worthwhile to find someone to help you. But it is to say that anyone you meet who is self-realized is just like you, in every way. They poop on the toilet, fart, get angry, have desires, everything else all the rest of us have. The myth of the desire-less guru can't change any of that.
if you truly believe in and experience your inner divinity, you will express it in your life.
Hello? What do you think this blog is?
And that is what I see Nithyananda doing when he shares his inner divinity with others by teaching people to awaken to their inner divinity and teaching them to heal themselves and others.
Bottom line: what he is teaching them—more than anything else—is that because he is special, he can help them. The only real specialness happening is what people believe about him, because self-realization doesn't make you special. Period.
if you yourself doesn't show any signs of divinity, how is that going to have any effects on others.
Signs of divinity: ridiculous myth.
he first expresses his divinity to others as a preliminary step before they have enough faith to follow his example and express it in their lives.
Right. He cons them.
Self-realization doesn't make you somehow magically divine- because according to the Upanishad - you ARE already divine. This shows that what you repeated from the Upanishad is not an experience in yourself and therefore doesn't know how to live it.
You have made my case. According to the Upanishads, being divine is normal. Therefore, the magic powers people believe to accompany being divine are nothing more than myths. Nithy is using those myths to promote himself. That makes him a bad guru, in my opinion.
You yourself doesn't believe that we are Divine in nature, and still think that it is somehow a myth or self promoting to live and express it.
You are off-the-beam here, my friend. What I'm saying is that we are all equally divine in nature. Nithy has nothing on anyone else in the world in terms of divinity.
He said "The only difference between you and I is that I know I am divine, and you as yet do not know.
Wrong. Because when those others come to see their divinity, they will see how wrong their ideas were about it. Nithy's making himself special is where those wrong ideas come from. It is preventing these people from coming to see their own divinity. But it keeps them around, handing over their money, doesn't it?
Since that truth already exists in us, we cannot achieve it ; we just need to become aware of it , that's all."
All gurus must pay lip service to Vedanta, even while they piss all over its truth with the superstition they promulgate.
how can you come to a conclusion without even understanding clearly what it is that he teaches.
As I said, paying lip service to Vedanta is counteracted by having people believe you are a special case of God.
You need to throughly know about a person's teaching before making a hasty conclusion about somebody or forming an unsubstantial conclusion or imagination.
No I don't. I just need to see that he is promoting himself as special, as someone in possession of divine powers. That is all the evidence I require to make my judgement.
in your blog I rarely see the fairly weighing of pros and cons of a Guru. In fact, the many positive things that they do for the lives of others are not even mentioned or reduced to zero, but every little thing like age ,looks, building a temple, are blown out of proportion.
There are mountains of hagiography out there about every guru, living or dead. It is not my job to provide any more of that. In fact, I see to counteract that with some anti-hagiography.
As I've pointed out numerous times, if a guru promotes themselves as special because they are self-realized, they are bad gurus because of that. At that point, I find it necessary to point that out in a way that some may (hopefully) find somewhat humorous. Fair and balanced you aren't going to get here.
From what I read of Nithyananda's teachings , he teaches the direct path. That is to drop both chasing.
Yet he wants you to believe he is special, Shiva himself come to Earth. He wants you to believe he has divine powers. Basically, he wants you to drop chasing to begin to chase him.
A person who surrenders to the flow of life experiences and enjoys both the inner space and outer space at the same time.
As long as you keep up with your dues.
Just because one doesn't know about the impact of having a true guru, doesn't mean that it is a myth.
I have a number of true gurus. I know exactly what it means. Your stunning confusion between the terms "myths of gurudom" and "true guru" is noted.
it is understandable why somebody would think that gurus are unnecessary.
I know of cases where no guru was necessary. Look at Ramana. His guru was that mountain Nithy just raped.
"But it is to say that anyone you meet who is self-realized is just like you, in every way. They poop on the toilet, fart, get angry, have desires, everything else all the rest of us have."
Jody,can you pls clarify further why an enlightened person will get angry?I'm serious here.
I used to think when gnosis dawns,all hatred,resentment,anger etc... vanishes as the (false)sense of "I" is gone.And since there's no more perception that there's someone "in here",how can the "view" 'i am being offended' which gives rise to anger etc.. arises?
Perhaps by anger you mean biochemical reactions produces by the body,which is a physical kind of feeling ? I'm confused here.
I used to think when gnosis dawns,all hatred,resentment,anger etc... vanishes as the (false)sense of "I" is gone.
That is a myth. Think about it, it's all vast structures of neurological connection in the brain. It doesn't change all at once. What shifts is that we can see ourselves outside our nervous system. Realization brings a new context that engenders its own kind of changes, but it's not instantaneous by any means. Thus, you can know yourself at the Atman and still have an experience of anger. The brain is unavoidable.
since there's no more perception that there's someone "in here",how can the "view" 'i am being offended' which gives rise to anger etc.. arises
It's all automatic. One can be perfectly situated in their true nature and still have entirely natural reactions to things. It's neurological. Realization doesn't stop neurology from happening.
Perhaps by anger you mean biochemical reactions produces by the body, which is a physical kind of feeling ?
That's the only kind of anger there is. There is absolutely no separation between the mind and body. All thinking and feeling, intuition and all spiritual experience, is all entirely embodied.
Thanks 4 ur reply.one more thing,do u think such (biophysical)anger etc..of a jhani can actually give rise to the act of causing harm to another being?
Buddha.Jesus.Ramana Maharshi etc.. is well known for their boundless compassion/love.
What I think is this,for them(or any other fully realized ones),when anger etc.. arises,they are immediately seen as simply 'a feeling',so there's no 'conscious' reaction of offensiveness.
What I think is this,for them(or any other fully realized ones),when anger etc.. arises,they are immediately seen as simply 'a feeling',so there's no 'conscious' reaction of offensiveness.
And I think that the reaction to offensiveness changes slowly under the influence of jnana, over years, not instantly.
It's much less likely for a jnani to be offensive in their actions, but still entirely possible, in my opinion. There are plenty of realized gurus who have abused their devotees in various ways as evidence of this.
From what I also read , as a little boy , when Nithy woke up in the morning in his house, he would walk with closed eyes to the front of the house , so that the Arunachula hill was the first thing that he saw in the morning. His brothers and sister used to call him " blind monk" . They used to irritate him by standing in front of him as he opened his eyes, or by turning him around so that he faced the opposite direction, or by startling him by shouting at him, Nithyananda used to kick them, rave and rant , and go back to bed and start all over again. To Nithyananda, the hill was a living entity, not a mere formation of rocks. He would sit contemplating the hill like in Zazen.
Here is my opinion: the above ( Yogananda's writing about Guru) is superstitious claptrap. It's how I find much of Yogananda's writing .
I see that unfortunately you haven't experienced it directly yourself, I can't blame you for holding on to your misconception about Yogananda's writing. Should I listen to you or should I listen to Yogananda , who had direct experience with the lineage of gurus ( His guru was Sri Yukteswar, whose guru was Mahasaya, in turn whose guru was Babaji himself).
No one is saying that the Guru himself makes you who you are. After all, the Guru is the form through which your Formless Self ( Atman) connects with you. The body of the guru is the reflection, the energy behind the form is the source. We can tell you to surrender to your Formless Atman. Since it is Formless, many people are having a hard time doing just that. This is where the form of the Guru becomes a helpful channel. If you are uncomfortable with Uppassana , sitting with the Guru, you can do Vipasana instead. In vipassana you're just sitting with yourself and finding your own Essence. Uppassana as in Upanishad is more about the path of devotion. Vipassana has more to do with the path of Jnana. The path of devotion is not for everyone, there are many paths. There is no need to sabbotage a path that can be helpful for others , eventhough it may not be suitable for you.
Let's just presume that his high rate of success in healing is all because of the placebo effects. It is still notable that many people get healed, and lives are saved. You can't say that these people are healed, but it is still worthless and meaningless anyways because the healing was a placebo. Besides, the placebo effects have a much lower rate/ percentage of success than it is showing in Nithyananda's healing. To say that it is entirely a placebo effect is another exaggeration and inacuracy.
When I say dropping the ego, I mean relaxing from the identification with fabricated indentity / the false self.
Hello? What do you think this blog is?
To falsely acuse and "bulldoze" gurus.
Signs of divinity: ridiculous myth.
And you say you believe that we are divine in nature, and even claim to prove that we already are divine in this blog by merely repeating what's in scriptures without believing in it. The truth is , you neither believe that you are divine in nature, nor can you see it in others. I don't blame you for thinking that people are conned into believing in his inner divinity, because I don't think that you've experienced. People from all walks of life, from all professions, many people actually get to directly experienced and were transformed by him. Don't think that it is because of mere superstition or because all these people are more stupid than you are.
I will just make a very quick statement about the parking lot. i worked in India on a parking lot for another guru outside of Bombay.
The parking lot whether it is 20 meters by 20 meters or perhaps 10 times that size will have a considerable effect on the area. Just wait until the first monsoon comes in May or June and you will see that the parking lot is not so benign. There will be significant erosion, loss of topsoil, and plants and animals nearby will be effected. If the guru had planned for that and created runoff basins which would filter the water, perhaps planting locally available reeds and plants, to utilize the run-off, or making a sediment pond which would benefit, native plants, and support local birds etc.
then I would be impressed. I have seen terrible devastation to a local watershed caused by the good intentions of a "Sad guru". The cleanup bill for one lake project in New York totalled over 1 million dollars. That was just to pay an environmental engineering firm just to fix it.
I think Jody is making a valid point. The Guru often has blind spots. Things that just aren't on their radar. They are so focussed on growing their organization, spreading their amazing teachings and what have you, that they lose sight of their simple humanity, their connection to the earth and creator. I personally attended the lofty brahmin pujas, which supposedly made the big project OK for all the animals and subtle energies there. Then later i also personally, found a dead turtle which had been decapitated by a heavy machine which ran it over. The turtle was at least 30 or so years old. It had buried itself in the bank alongside the lake.
Then it was run over by a big excavation machine, its head lay on the ground about 5 feet from the body. I wonderred if this was OK?
Did the turtle get a good rebirth because the guru needed to do the project and it was all good because the brahmin had done the puja correctly and with fervor and Love?
To the fellow who is defending Nithyanandas pursuits, why don't you go for Guru Purnima next year when the throngs of devotees come and the busses are spinning out in the mud and go look at the edge of the parking lot to see where all that has gone, and ask yourself, is this a good thing?
Can I honestly, sanction this fellow to do his thing because he is helping humanity, while severely negatively impacting the local environment?
It is a house of cards, and these days the environment does matter.
I am Glad that people are finally getting onto the absolute falsity that is Nithyananda.
I see that unfortunately you haven't experienced it directly yourself
No. I have.
However, I now know that it's all neurologically-generated imaginal experience. It's real, in a subjective way. Another person can have an entirely different belief system, yet will have just as significant (to them) imaginally-based spiritual experiences.
I can't blame you for holding on to your misconception about Yogananda's writing.
And I'm sorry to report that you are beset by substantial misconceptions of your own.
Should I listen to you or should I listen to Yogananda
That depends. Do you want a regurgitation of the same superstitious religion that almost every other Indian guru traffics in, or do you want a cut-to-the-quick, bare-bones diagram of nondual spirituality.
who had direct experience with the lineage of gurus ( His guru was Sri Yukteswar, whose guru was Mahasaya, in turn whose guru was Babaji himself).
I don't believe in Babaji.
I am part of a very old lineage as well, one which began in India centuries ago, for what that's worth to you.
the Guru is the form through which your Formless Self ( Atman) connects with you.
But that form can be any old thing. A picture, a statue, a loved one. If the devotion is sincere, a living person is no better than a hunk of rock.
We can tell you to surrender to your Formless Atman.
Some bum on the street can tell me to surrender to the Atman. A guru's telling it doesn't make it any different in effect, outside of whatever projection we are placing on him.
There is no need to sabbotage a path that can be helpful for others , eventhough it may not be suitable for you.
In my opinion, there is a GREAT need to make clear the fact that self-realization doesn't render anyone any more divine than anyone else, whether they too are realized or not. Furthermore, it is very important to point out that these crazy ideas people get about their gurus, usually encouraged by that guru, are only preventing their own jnana from dawning.
It is still notable that many people get healed, and lives are saved.
There are tens of thousands of faith healers of every type and ideology, all over the world, who are just as effective as Nithy.
You can't say that these people are healed, but it is still worthless and meaningless anyways because the healing was a placebo.
I'm not saying that. I'm saying that Nithy's power as a placebo has everything to do with way he looks, (like a Hindu god,) and nothing to do with any nondual truth he may understand.
Besides, the placebo effects have a much lower rate/ percentage of success than it is showing in Nithyananda's healing.
Your speculation about his efficacy is noted. I will state that because devotees want to please their gurus, they are going to say they are healed whether they are or not.
To say that it is entirely a placebo effect is another exaggeration and inacuracy.
To believe he has magic healing powers is a loathsome dependence on superstition over the findings of cognitive neuroscience.
When I say dropping the ego, I mean relaxing from the identification with fabricated indentity / the false self.
How can one not be who they are in the world? It's written in our neurons, buddy. You can have a fantasy that you are relaxing from identification, or you can be a jnani. There are no degrees between.
Hello? What do you think this blog is?
To falsely acuse and "bulldoze" gurus.
Opinion noted.
you say you believe that we are divine in nature, and even claim to prove that we already are divine in this blog by merely repeating what's in scriptures without believing in it.
I know it. I also know that being divine doesn't make you any different than anyone else. Thus, any "signs of divinity" are nothing more than myths employed by gurus to get people to believe in them.
The truth is , you neither believe that you are divine in nature, nor can you see it in others.
No. The truth is, I know I am divine, and I know everyone else is divine, equally. I don't need any fairy tale signs to see that.
People from all walks of life, from all professions, many people actually get to directly experienced and were transformed by him.
Our wonderful brains in action, the devotees' brains that is.
Don't think that it is because of mere superstition or because all these people are more stupid than you are.
It is because of how are brains are built and has nothing to do with any special powers allegedly wielded by any self-aggrandizing gurus.
What is wrong with the lineage of Yogananda and Babaji?
Maha Avatar Baba is a convenience for most of the wannabe Gurus. In India its so damn easy to tell people that "babaji appeared and told me to enlighten this world with his special and choicest blessings, so here I come".
My questions are
1. Why that babaji is 2000 years living? whats the problem with him ? Why he cant quit and go ?
2. How come he remains at 25 always? And whats that 25 exactly ? Some silver jubilee stuff? Why not 30 ?
3. Why Maha Baba always is looking somewhere else? and NOT at camera in front?
4. Why its always his painting and never a snapshot ?
5. Where exactly he is located in Himalayas ? Why cant everyone visit and see him?
6. How does he manage to strip clothes and remain in the Himalayan cold?
These are some of my basic doubts. May be I did not understand maha baba concept well just like many others???
My questions are
1. Why that babaji is 2000 years living? whats the problem with him ? Why he cant quit and go ?
when ppl stops worshipping him,then he vanishes
2. How come he remains at 25 always? And whats that 25 exactly ? Some silver jubilee stuff? Why not 30 ?
if you wanna him to be 30,he'll be
3. Why Maha Baba always is looking somewhere else? and NOT at camera in front?
he's just a perverted figment of imagination
4. Why its always his painting and never a snapshot ?
http://www.netineti.co.uk/
5. Where exactly he is located in Himalayas ? Why cant everyone visit and see him?
he'll instantly appear the moment you calls him(he's now besides me as i type this words
6. How does he manage to strip clothes and remain in the Himalayan cold?
where in the f*** do you even get that?
These are some of my basic doubts. May be I did not understand maha baba concept well just like many others???
yes,you are an idiot
he'll instantly appear the moment you calls him (he's now besides me as i type this words)
Your personal, subjective, idiosyncratic, and in my opinion, delusional experience, is noted.
Maha Avtar Baba
This is @ Annoyedmouse who mistook maher baba or mahaavtar baba..
Dude ! I was talking about the maha baba who stares between his brows and always sits cross legged covering his crotch.
http://www.avathars.com/bab1.jpg
You promote Meher baba
http://www.netineti.co.uk/
who was basically a dumb guy who could never speak and covered up his stupidity under his mounam. If you are a follower of meher baba then i can imagine how stupid you can get. Get a life maan !
dear friend,
the truth is,i didn't even know who this guy with a moustache is -
www.netineti.co.uk/,
let alone promoting him!just answering ur no. 4 question by randomly searching for images of this avatar u talk about in real-life shot.:-D
perhaps i have totally misunderstood your real "guru",so what?my answers to all other quwstions u posted remains true.
sane and non-delusional ppl will certainly totally agreed with me(is that right,jody?)
I'm not interested in participating in the debate (neither pro nor anti), but jody, c'mon... you portray Arunachala as some sort of Amazon rainforest-like region, complete with tremendous biodiversity.
Perhaps you should pay a visit to the "Holy Mountain" and see for yourself. It is mostly rocky, with sparse vegetation. The bottom of the hill isn't much more different. Hence the drive in recent years to support reforestation. The local "flora and fauna" whose demise you whine about are practically non-existent.
Since when did you become such an advocate of this "international treasure"? You surely don't personally believe it's any holier than your dog's ass, anyway.
Can someone please tell us the 2009 siddha New Years message. I need the $100 to buy food.
Thanks.
>>>"Can someone please tell us the 2009 siddha New Years message. I need the $100 to buy food.
Thanks"<<
Yes! In a pre-recorded talk, gurumayi revealed the message for 2009: "Send ME your 401K; Make my Day!"
I am very sad about Nithyananda. I got great inspiration once. Later, he shown himself to be an abusive, authoritarian liar. What he cares is money and power, while pretending that enlightenment is what really matters. I regarded him as my satguru, I was sadly mistaken.
I regarded him as my satguru, I was sadly mistaken.
It calls into question the whole concept of "satguru." Truly, only our own Atman can be satguru. Anyone else is always going to be just like us, in every way, regardless of how they are presented to us.
You surely don't personally believe it's any holier than your dog's ass, anyway.
Nithy's ashram is an encroachment on Arunachala. It was reported to me that they bulldozed jungle to build it. Even if that "jungle" was rocky and sparse, it may have still supported threatened species in its pre-parking lot state.
But you are correct to imply I may have ulterior motives. Nithy obscures nondual truth even as he claims to teach it. By making himself an unusual occurrence of special human divinity, he's shoveling shit into the third-eye sockets of his devotees. I'm just trying to help some wash theirs out.
well jody, i think u shud get yours facts correct here. My comments are based on your the photo that u have posted and claimed as the evidence. Well, i have been to the ashram personally after reading your comments here. i think u didnt get enough or shud i say a true facts about this ashram. The point where you showed as the 'Nithyananda's ashram' in the photo is actually the temple INSIDE the ashram area. The ashram area actually starts from the exact point from the entrance gate. well, can u spot the left and right huts just after the gate, thats their gallery, hall, domitory, dining place and offices. Arent all these also include in the premise of an ashram. i asked around about the parking lot that u claimed here. well, the so called parking area doesnt exist at all itseems. its not meant for parking lots. the place is used to set up booths and tables to serve the devotees during any occasion. well, i guess thats the purpose of any ashram... to serve people. well jody, i think u should visit the ashram and collect the facts yourself rather than copying the photo from another source and leaving your own hypothesis here.
Stop all that crap Jody. There is more interesting stuff. I heard that your peacock saint Nithyananda’s birthday celebrations on 1st Jan 2009 was a sight to behold in itself mainly because he had beautiful damsels as escorts lined up on the dais beside him. Man, you sure missed something great.
Man, you sure missed something great.
So, where are the pictures?
jody, they don't allow you to take pictures in the hall. i got this stuff from my friends who had been to the jayanthi celebrations. anyway, i don't know much about this guy and i am least bothered whether he is from heaven or hell. i just said what i came to know through word of mouth. if u don't like the post, just remove it.
those people belonged to the youth foundation. there is nothing wrong if they stand on the dais.
Nithya's disciples and ashramites are the most arrogant lot on this earth. They are so selfish that they are least bothered about other's suffering. Once I lined up to have a darshan of him. His volunteer nearly sent me sprawling on the floor and planted a kick on my chest that it was ailing for days. First he has to teach those fellas to give up their ego and basic decency. Then he can teach the rest of the world on bliss. He shows partiality to the core. He treats people differently. He treats the rich and beautiful women in a different way and the ordinary folks differently. When asked, he and his disciples keep saying that those rich folks/beautiful women were his disciples in the previous birth. He says he has renounced every relation under the sun. Then why should he drag all this relationship now? When will he learn to treat all men as equal ? That is the basic qualification of any guru. Matha Amritanandamayi does not at least behave and show differences in public. But this person gives fruits and flowers, special blessings to the rich/beautiful women. Is that what you expect from a guru? When one day I questioned about his attitude in one of his classes his disciples told me that he would treat the people as he likes and if I am not ready to accept his ways, then I should get out.
Man did you check the rates for the current programs...
$750 for YSP. and this is just an early bird special...
I guess Life Bliss does not take into consideration the bad economy and other factors and believe that the govt stimulus will be spent in their 2 day programs...lol
http://www.lifebliss.org/events.asp
They should change the name from Life Bliss Foundation to Life Business Foundation ...lol
surrounds himself with pretty youth, cares a lot about his hair, enunciates till the cows come home, possesses many phallic figures, wears a dress, I certainly wouldn't hire him as a baby sitter, dude is weird.
>>" He treats people differently. He treats the rich and beautiful women in a different way and the ordinary folks differently. When asked, he and his disciples keep saying that those rich folks/beautiful women were his disciples in the previous birth. "<<
ha ha...that's exactly what gurumayi told devotees...rich, beautiful folks (oh, and famous folks) had been "disciples in a fcrmer lifetime" and had been reborn as rich, beautiful, famous folks as a "reward"...maybe it's some "ancient vedic teaching"...lolol.
Quote: "I'm just trying to help some wash( dust) theirs out."
There is a saying about before trying to remove the dust out of other's eyes, we first need to remove the dust from our own eyes .
You're making all kinds of erroneous assumption from looking at the picture. Not everyone in an Indian village have a car like in the U.S. , so why would there be a need for a parking lot. Second, the Holy Temple is close to Arunachula Hill, but no where on it, how could he be raping the mountain. There are rarely any trees in that area to start with , I am highly doubtful that there are a lot of animals around , much less endangered animals. From looking at the picture, you can't even tell correctly what you are seeing. Whether it is a temple gate or something else you can't even get it straight. How are you so sure about anything else?
Again, you guys are still not over with judging people by age and looks. First, there is the judging of Nithyananda's age and looks. That doesn't cut it, now you are moving to his disciple's age and looks. Is that as deep as one can look into as a gauze to judge others. Traditionally, many people wait till they are very old and enjoyed everything before they even consider seeking reality and their true self. But, the Buddha actually inspired many young people to begin the inner journey even in their youth, because he himself started and finish the spiritual path at a young age. That is why , many Theravada Buddhist monks are very young . And if you look at them, it is clear that they didn't renounce because they don't look good. Does spiritual seekers have to be old or ugly? True seekers don't necessarily wait till they are old to start seeking, because the seeking originate from within instead of for the sake of following custom.
You're making all kinds of erroneous assumption from looking at the picture.
I can see that it's not a parking lot. That doesn't change the fact that it was by deforestation that the large area came to be.
Second, the Holy Temple is close to Arunachula Hill, but no where on it, how could he be raping the mountain.
According to my sources, it's the closest thing to the mountain now. Couldn't we have left that area alone and found somewhere where the rest of the buildings are?
I am highly doubtful that there are a lot of animals around , much less endangered animals.
There was a world of smaller critters once there.
How are you so sure about anything else?
I can see the gate and the buildings behind the gate, across the large expanse of ground stripped clean of all plant life.
Again, you guys are still not over with judging people by age and looks.
Well, it's obvious he's a preening pretty-boy! Clearly, this man loves to look good. Every picture of him seems staged in some way, including the pictures of him appearing in the costume of a Hindu God.
I understand this is what folks want in India, but I am dismayed that folks buy into this nonsense in the States. Nithyananda spreads a lie about everyone's nondual being by making himself up as a god. It's like pissing on the Upanishads.
>>>
I understand this is what folks want in India
Eh don't insult us Indians just cos some Indians are gods or almost gods ;)
some Indians are gods
Nobody, Indian or otherwise, is any more God than anyone else.
ah that was just tongue in cheek. Many Indians like me are completely disgusted about these godmen. Just wanted to make clear what you say is not what we Indians want.
Quote : " According to my sources, it's the closest thing to the mountain now. Couldn't we have left that area alone and found somewhere where the rest of the buildings are? "
It seems like your sources have a comparing issue. It is them who who needs to deal with the jealousy issue within themselves . Changing the Temple wouldn't address the root of their problem.
" There was a world of smaller critters once there."
When it comes to the mountain, few people really cherish this mountain like Nithyananda does. As a young boy, It is the very thing he wanted to see when first waking up. Now when he sings, it is the very thing that he sings about. To you , this mountain is just a tool to spread distorted message about him, but to him it is one of the thing he loves most in life.
" I understand this is what folks want in India, but I am dismayed that folks buy into this nonsense in the States. "
Seems like you are implying that Indian people buy into nonsense.
" Well, it's obvious he's a preening pretty-boy! Clearly, this man loves to look good."
Just because you are so hung up on judging a Guru by his looks, doesn't mean that it is the same measuring stick others use to judge a Guru. It could also be that they directly experiment with his teachings and found a True guru in him. It is still too supperficial to judge a Guru by his physical features, much less his clothing or photograph. You have to directly experiment with his teachings and find out for yourself before jumping to any hasty conclusion upon first glance of his photograph or the photograph of his temple, or his billboard. lol..
Let's face it , Indian style might be popular in India, but in the U.S. , it is hardly popular. If he's trying to fit in or trying to gain popularity through clothing and appearance, he would have put on a nice Vest or Suit. This is what is popular in the U.S. But he still choose to wear an orange robe, or stick to what he likes. This just shows that he is original and doesn't care how people judge his clothing or looks.
" Nithyananda spreads a lie about everyone's nondual being . "
Non- duality is not just in the Upanishad, it is the essence of the Buddha's teachings also. If you choose to think that these ancient teachings are lies, then it is up to you. You are free to believe whatever you want. Just because you don't accept non- duality doesn't mean that others are lying when they teach it.
Just because you don't accept non- duality doesn't mean that others are lying when they teach it.
This is a horrendous mischaracterization of my position, caused by either your gross ignorance and misinterpretation of what I'm saying, or your direct intent to misrepresent my position.
We are all, equally, the Atman. We share nondual truth in equal measure. Nithy has no more than any other person, regardless of the state of his consciousness. The lie he tells is that nondual realization makes you into a God. It doesn't, not anymore than we already are.
Nithyananda shits and pisses on the Upanishads AND the teachings of Buddha, not by what he says, but by what he wants us to believe about him, that he is a living God on Earth.
When one person awakens to the non-dual reality , he/she becomes the catalyst for others to remember their own potential, possibility, and essence. When this happen, they can't help but to have deep respect and gratitude toward the one who awakens them to their true reality.
However, if you choose to disregard and disrespect such a person and mislead others to do the same, I guess it is your choice. Don't get upset when others show their respect and gratitude for Nithyananda because of the life changing transformation and truth he awakens them to.
Mr. Nithyanandam
Can you please explain why your Guru turns spirituality into a money making business.
Charging $1000 bucks for a 2 day program seems ridiculous.
Please explain if you can?
Dear anon,
The question is, why are we so readily support the many material products in the market that are unnecessary , but when someone is promoting a product that actually helps people in a trememdous way we don't support ? In my opinion, Nithyananda is one of the pioneering spiritual entrepreneur that helps to bring spirituality to the mainstream. As can be seen in the past , spiritual awakening is one of the most precious thing in life but when it is offerred at no cost or a low cost, people tend to not see the value of it and therefore doesn't care much about it. Very few people would even bother about awakening, yet it is the one thing that truly matters in life.
And if it is not powerful and life transforming, would he dare to offer it at that price. Even if he does, would anyone ever come back? If people are not getting their money's worth would he even be able to continue? The fact that he has been conducting programs for almost a decade shows that the program is as powerful and effective as it is supposed to be.
The fact that he has been conducting programs for almost a decade shows that the program is as powerful and effective as it is supposed to be.
Good thing for Nithy that the placebo effect does all the heavy lifting.
The question is, why are we so readily support the many material products in the market that are unnecessary , but when someone is promoting a product that actually helps people in a trememdous way we don't support ?
Wait a sec. Its not for you to decide what helps. Its for us to decide. There are products in the market that do help and others that don't. The ones which don't help, we don't buy them - simple.
In my opinion, Nithyananda is one of the pioneering spiritual entrepreneur that helps to bring spirituality to the mainstream.
I beg to differ here. First of all, spirituality is not a business which you people make of. So there are no pioneers and entrepreneurs here. Its sanatana..was always there..will be there..
As can be seen in the past , spiritual awakening is one of the most precious thing in life but when it is offerred at no cost or a low cost, people tend to not see the value of it and therefore doesn't care much about it.
Whether people see value in it or not is none of your business. Your job is to share this precious knowledge which you claim to have. What happened to the doctrine that knowledge is FREE.
You are charging so much money just because the knowledge is precious? I am really appalled by your level of maturity and understanding of spirituality that now you are attributing a value to something priceless and even have the audacity to defend it.
Very few people would even bother about awakening, yet it is the one thing that truly matters in life.
Who says so. For some it matters for others it does not. Its not your domain to decide what matters and what does not. Each one has the freedom to decide.
And if it is not powerful and life transforming, would he dare to offer it at that price. Even if he does, would anyone ever come back?
Once again you come down to business. Dude - let me remind you again. Spiritual knowledge is not traded the way Nithyananda does it. Wake up and realize the fallacy.
If people are not getting their money's worth would he even be able to continue? The fact that he has been conducting programs for almost a decade shows that the program is as powerful and effective as it is supposed to be.
By making such comments you are making a mockery of yourself and your Guru. You would have been better off staying quiet.
I say that the knowledge that you are offering may be priceless. Forget about $1000. But think about a person who wants to do this program and is not able to because of the ridiculous amount your greedy organization is charging.
These guru's conduct programmes. People are subject to hypnotism day in and day out. They ask you to sit blindfolded. So, when they speak in commanding tones, the effect on the brain would be terrific. I know people belonging to the group who say that they want to abandon their family and take up sanyas after such classes.
Well, you should not curse him. Surrounded by Damsels, eh? Any modelling agency/international firm would be put to shame the way he recruits his disciples. They have to possess a medical or engineering degree. Otherwise, only people with doctorate/lecturership qualification can enter. I don't think there is such stringent recruitment rules in any other organization in any part of the world.
" Whether people see value in it or not is none of your business."
Personally, I believe it is his business to increase spiritual awareness in enough people to raise the Collective Consciousness.
" I am really appalled by your level of maturity and understanding of spirituality that now you are attributing a value to something priceless"
Just because he is charging 1000, that is not to say that the knowledge is not priceless.
"I say that the knowledge that you are offering may be priceless. Forget about $1000. But think about a person who wants to do this program and is not able to.
What happened to the doctrine that knowledge is FREE."
Recently, he actually offered free 1 year complete training in the ashram for all those who wants to experiment with the teachings. Everything was offered free, all they need to bring with them is a toothbrush and he would have to raise funds to provide for everything else. He just asked that people be sincere about their seeking. The problem is people participate for the wrong reasons, take it for granted, and abuse the opportunity because it was free, and open to everybody.
Even when he offered to train everyone for free, others actually think that he hypnotize people to come to his ashram for training.
" They have to possess a medical or engineering degree. Otherwise, only people with doctorate/lecturership qualification can enter. "
I believe for a person who is ready or is seeking spirituality intensely , there is no requirements for them. Any sincere true seekers are welcome. But when it comes to spreading spiritual knowledge to the general public that are not already seeking spiritually , one has to keep in mind that the fulfillment of the basic needs naturally leads to the self-actualization needs. So you have to start with those that are ready to fulfill their self- actualization needs, not the ones that are seeking the basic needs. They are not interested in listening .
you have to start with those that are ready to fulfill their self- actualization needs
And the "self-actualization" needs of the guru as well, which in this case appear to require a lot of money (hence the preference for wage-earners) along with the unquestioning adulation.
Personally, I believe it is his business to increase spiritual awareness in enough people to raise the Collective Consciousness.
Exactly. So his business is to give. Not to filter based on money. Give it to all. Thats the nature of a true saint. And he is not raising the collective consciousness. Here he is trying to raise the consciousness (so to say) of only the ones with heavy pockets so that later they can fill his pockets.
Just because he is charging 1000, that is not to say that the knowledge is not priceless.
I can see from your words that you yourself are not convinced about him charging $1000 bucks. Please introspect.
Recently, he actually offered free 1 year complete training in the ashram for all those who wants to experiment with the teachings. Everything was offered free, all they need to bring with them is a toothbrush and he would have to raise funds to provide for everything else. He just asked that people be sincere about their seeking. The problem is people participate for the wrong reasons, take it for granted, and abuse the opportunity because it was free, and open to everybody.
I have read reports from the people who have done the free program. Basically its a way of getting free volunteers to work inside the ashram. As a benefit of doubt, lets assume there was no ulterior motive in giving the free program.But still it does not explain charging $1000. Also last year the program charges were $250. Now why did they become $1000. Did greed seep into your brains so much that you started exploiting people.
Even when he offered to train everyone for free, others actually think that he hypnotize people to come to his ashram for training.
He may hypnotize people. But its the stupidity in people like you to get hypnotized, that you start defending his good as well as bad.
I believe for a person who is ready or is seeking spirituality intensely , there is no requirements for them. Any sincere true seekers are welcome. But when it comes to spreading spiritual knowledge to the general public that are not already seeking spiritually , one has to keep in mind that the fulfillment of the basic needs naturally leads to the self-actualization needs. So you have to start with those that are ready to fulfill their self- actualization needs, not the ones that are seeking the basic needs. They are not interested in listening .
And the person who is rich is the most intense seeker in Nithyananda Foundation.
All you ignorant morons out there who are trying to malign an incarnation, here's my challenge !
Before abusing someone with your defiled eyes and decayed logic, just know that there are dimensions that you don't even know about.
Why don't you attend one of his meditation programs before passing any comment? I promise its worth more than your life.
Criticising comes easy to most people, especially when it comes to Gurus. These foreigners come to Arunachala to get cured of so many ailments and when they get back start making fun of somebody, they have not even seen eye to eye.
How many of you'll walk without chappals around Arunachala? Do you'll know that there are lingams
under the ground around the mountain path ??
The locals have defiled the place on the foothills in some places. If you folks are so concerned about Arunachala, do something to keep it clean rather than find fault with someone who has come to help mankind.
Don't come to the conclusion that Gurus do certain things for self -glory. You need to come and see how many development programs Swami has undertaken in and around Bidadi. What the government is supposed to do (but not doing), Swami is doing. Most of the money that comes via donations is spent on social upliftment. I know how much mankind is in need of enlightened masters.
For anyone talking nonsense, I say just attend his program once and see how it changes your life for the better. You wouldn't have come across a greater miracle than that.
I have experienced it and so I speaketh !
Be Blissful!
arut@mail.com
The money can be used to further spread the truth of awakening .
"along with the unquestioning adulation"
I believe Nithyananda answers all kinds of questions from all types of people everywhere he goes on a regular basis.
Responding to a couple of comments by "Nithyanandam":
And if it is not powerful and life transforming, would he dare to offer it at that price. Even if he does, would anyone ever come back? If people are not getting their money's worth would he even be able to continue?
You know, even Kalki "Bhagavan" offers a "powerful and life transforming" program for $5000. It is extremely easy to hoodwink the gullible who think they are being offered some priceless shortcut to Enlightenment. Nithyananda dares to offer it at that price because he knows there is a sucker born every minute :)
Why is it that in the early years, the Healers' initiation was given for free, but slowly the price tags on all programs has been growing to extortionate amounts? Has the perceived value suddenly shot up?
Recently, he actually offered free 1 year complete training in the ashram for all those who wants to experiment with the teachings. Everything was offered free, all they need to bring with them is a toothbrush and he would have to raise funds to provide for everything else. He just asked that people be sincere about their seeking. The problem is people participate for the wrong reasons, take it for granted, and abuse the opportunity because it was free, and open to everybody.
OK, let's be completely clear about this one year of "training". And I am speaking from experience, not some second-hand information. The entire "program" is designed to recruit, systematically "inspire" and retain the young adults who sign up for this.
There is a screening "interview", where they see how suitable you will be as a fit for the organization (preferably how committed you are to becoming a Brahmachari for the mission). If you're accepted, all you do is parrot Nithyananda's "teachings", become a zombified "bliss robot" and try to promote the organization's outreach.
It is NOT some opportunity for sadhana and personal enlightenment. Any benefits ("bliss") experienced by participants are purely a result of their own mental attitude (selfless service to God), and because they become convinced that a Messiah has landed on the planet to ferry them across the ocean of life.
It is great, no doubt, that Nithyananda is inspiring so many to even contemplate about something beyond the humdrum human existence. But dumbing down Vedantic truths and roping in large numbers of idealistic seekers by selling empty promises and lies is just sad.
All you ignorant morons out there who are trying to malign an incarnation, here's my challenge !
Mr Arut. We might be ignorant morons...I agree. I am not awakened. So I am a moron. But you are a brainwashed Nithya fundamentalist. Even worse. First get rid of your brainwash, then become a moron like us, and then try to awaken yourself. Remove your Nithya conditioning first.
Before abusing someone with your defiled eyes and decayed logic, just know that there are dimensions that you don't even know about.
You know, an islamic fundamentalist alse defends his actions by this same logic what you are taking about.
Why don't you attend one of his meditation programs before passing any comment? I promise its worth more than your life.
I have attended tons. They are good in content sometimes but are also a marketing effort to attract more volunteers, ashramites etc.
Criticising comes easy to most people, especially when it comes to Gurus. These foreigners come to Arunachala to get cured of so many ailments and when they get back start making fun of somebody, they have not even seen eye to eye.
Before you make such a statement, understand that all these Guru's are foreigners in the United States and are here simply to squeeze some juice out of this prosperous country.
How many of you'll walk without chappals around Arunachala? Do you'll know that there are lingams
under the ground around the mountain path ??
Useless comment. What are you trying to convey?
The locals have defiled the place on the foothills in some places. If you folks are so concerned about Arunachala, do something to keep it clean rather than find fault with someone who has come to help mankind.
It would have been great if Nithyananda had asked his disciples to clean the foothills as you said rather than glorifying himself on the foothill. Please consider...
Don't come to the conclusion that Gurus do certain things for self -glory. You need to come and see how many development programs Swami has undertaken in and around Bidadi. What the government is supposed to do (but not doing), Swami is doing. Most of the money that comes via donations is spent on social upliftment. I know how much mankind is in need of enlightened masters.
Please list some development projects apart from building your own ashrams. We would be happy to know that some good also happens through such organizations.
For anyone talking nonsense, I say just attend his program once and see how it changes your life for the better. You wouldn't have come across a greater miracle than that.
I have experienced it and so I speaketh !
Programs are like a drug which gives some temporary euphoria. Then this needs to be renewed periodically. In Nithyananda foundation, even enlightenment has to be renewed. What a predicament?
" he is trying to raise the consciousness (so to say) of only the ones with heavy pockets "
Most often, people that have all their material needs fulfilled would understand that even with all the material things in the world, there is no lasting happiness to be found in these things. They are more ready to drop their material seeking, and look into the spiritual teachings. The programs serve to inspire these people to take the next step into the spiritual journey.
For the ones that are still seeking the basic needs, he gives them food and medicine.
" And the person who is rich is the most intense seeker "
The intense seeker is one who is tired of worldly goals, and is ready to embark on a spiritual journey. They are ready to take the jump into sanyasi. Another level of intensity is a seeker who is also tired of spiritual seeking, and is ready to drop that one final goal also and fall into the present moment. It is where life is, and where bliss is.
"Programs are like a drug which gives some temporary euphoria"
The taste of bliss gives you the inspiration to continue on your spiritual path until all your worldly goals are dropped. Bliss happens when also drop the spiritual goal and abide in the present moment. It is neither in the material goal, nor is it in the spiritual goal. But the spiritual goal is needed at the beginning to remove all material goals.
For Nithyananda:
What an excuse to attract rich folks. I guess Sai Baba/Kabir/Ramakrishna etc, would have been unfit as per your theory.
I agree that a person has to fill his stomach first before approaching God but that does not mean that a middle class person should not practice spirituality. Your theory is half baked.
Only SADHANA can lead to enlightenment. Not programs. If a program compels a program to continue his/her sadhana, then its good. If programs are meant for making people mission robots - then its a BLASPHEMY.
Ms. Anonymous
Seems like you are also going thru the same phase of failure that I went thru as a seeker. I have also done various kind of meditation programs but nothing really happened except adding to the frustration.
This is something else. You know what , the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have not been brain washed. I am a nasty critic, but as I said this is a different experience altogother and it STAYS!!
We only see the outer dimensions and make judgements. If you are really keen to know about the developmental work, why don't you make a trip to Bidadi and see for yourself.Stop making worthless comments out of ignorance and arrogance. If you have it in you, you will experiment with the truth.
Swami has come to uplift mankind. If possible you be of some help to mankind and the best help is indeed self help. If one person becomes a better person, he/she helps the whole world.
Why don't you have an open mind and see how you can help yourself first before worrying about Arunachala? Checkout the youtube videos. I apologize if I have hurt you in anyway, but my intention was to help you only. Clearing our own mental clogs is the real sadhana and a Guru lends a helping hand. If I were in your place I will be courageous enough to experiment. May God give you that courage.
Nithyanandam
Ms Anonymous,
Its not appropriate to compare an Islamic fundamentalist to a spiritual seeker. One is working against mankind and the other is for mankind. Seems like you have tried many meditation programs and got frustrated bcos it didn't work for you. Don't worry, I too have walked the same path, but I have reached the right place now.
No, I am not brainwashed. This is something else and it STAYS.
Believe me it works !!
If possible try to have an open mind and have the courage to experiment. That can do wonders.
Why bother about Arunachala or what somebody is doing/not doing.
The world will be a better place if we can help ourselves first and the right meditation is the key.
What you call as Sadhana has not been of much help to you, otherwise you wouldn't be carrying/sharing the irritaion/frustration.
It worked for me and I believe it will for others also. Are you ready to take the leap ? That's the big question!
" I guess Sai Baba/Kabir/Ramakrishna etc, would have been unfit as per your theory. I agree that a person has to fill his stomach first before approaching God but that does not mean that a middle class person should not practice spirituality. "
Generally, it is the case that the majority would seek the basic needs before they are ready to seek for self-actualization needs. Of course, there are always exceptions at every level. There are rich people that are not interested in spiritual seeking, and middle class and very poor people that are highly spiritual. In some case they can be seeking very intensely, If it is intense enough that most of their attachments to the worldly life are burnt out to allow their energy to become centered on one object/ goal, they can simply drop that one goal and become centered within and the present moment . Sometimes you can have a glimpse of this experience in meditation when the mind abides in awareness and stillness . If you are a sincere and intense seeker like these people, you can always ask Nithyananda to guide you, and he will be more than happy to.
" If a program compels a person to continue his/her sadhana, then its good. If programs are meant for making people mission robots - then its a BLASPHEMY. "
From my point of view, saddhana is like a clearing process, it helps to clear many emotional blockages and attachments to the world so that a person can be more centered within and in the present moment . The process of clearing also take place during these programs for the ones that haven't begin the clearing process of saddhana. For the intense spiritual seekers, needless to say they have already started the process of clearing through saddhana.
When people provide service without attachment to the fruit of action , to me it is also a type of saddhana through Karma Yoga. That is not to say that one is not supposed to accept salary. The salary can be a byproduct , but it is not the reason for action ( service, work, etc ). Spreading the spiritual message as in the ashram or any other work outside , without attachments or aversion is also a type of saddhana in the path of Karma Yoga. That is not to say that the people in the ashram only practice Karma Yoga. Spiritual understanding can be a type of Jhana Yoga, devotion can be a part of Bhakti Yoga. Once it leads to the centering within and in the moment, it becomes meditation in motion. Instead of doing " meditation in life" , you are living a "life in meditation". That is where spirituality and everyday life meet.
It is fine if one does work in the world not out of fear/ obligation, or attachments to desires /rewards. But more often than not, the managers motivate people through rewards and punishments. That either increases your fear or desire. These are two of the hindrances to meditation and stillness in the present moment on the spiritual path ( as in the 5 hindrances of Buddhism, for example) . The ashram provides an ambiance for people to learn how to work without reward and punishment ( desire and fear ) being the motivation factor. That doesn't mean that you can't practice this in your work place. It is just a little bit more challenging to do , because the system was set up in a way that it drives you through fear and desire ( reward and punishment).
Seems like you are also going thru the same phase of failure that I went thru as a seeker. I have also done various kind of meditation programs but nothing really happened except adding to the frustration.
Spiritual practice requires patience. Frustration occurs when you are not ready to carry it forward. Substituting mission marketing efforts with real SADHANA might feel like a short cut but believe me its not. SILENCE is the ONLY way - all other techniques are distractions. If you are able to sit still for 2-3 hours in a day its an achievement in itself. Give me an example of 1 Master - I challenge you - who has achieved it without Sadhana.
This is something else. You know what , the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I have not been brain washed. I am a nasty critic, but as I said this is a different experience altogother and it STAYS!!
Experience is at the level of the mind. When there is an experience - there is an experiencer. Reject it altogether. Else its a vicious cycle.
We only see the outer dimensions and make judgements. If you are really keen to know about the developmental work, why don't you make a trip to Bidadi and see for yourself.Stop making worthless comments out of ignorance and arrogance. If you have it in you, you will experiment with the truth.
Bidadi is Swami's Ashram. I asked for things you have done outside at places which do not belong to you.
Swami has come to uplift mankind.
Everybody cult member thinks that his Messiah has come to uplift mankind. Thats the psychology on which a cult works. Please think on these lines.
If possible you be of some help to mankind and the best help is indeed self help. If one person becomes a better person, he/she helps the whole world.
I agree
Why don't you have an open mind and see how you can help yourself first before worrying about Arunachala? Checkout the youtube videos. I apologize if I have hurt you in anyway, but my intention was to help you only. Clearing our own mental clogs is the real sadhana and a Guru lends a helping hand. If I were in your place I will be courageous enough to experiment. May God give you that courage.
Thanks for helping me. I am in the process of clearing my mental clogs. But through Sadhana - not by following any cult waiting for the Messiah to take me across.
What you call as Sadhana has not been of much help to you, otherwise you wouldn't be carrying/sharing the irritaion/frustration.
Who said - sadhana is not helping. Its a beautiful journey that one treads and gives loads of experiences. It definitely helps. You are taking the short cut route (which will never work) of joining a cult and becoming a mission robot.
It worked for me and I believe it will for others also. Are you ready to take the leap ? That's the big question!
If you are a sincere and intense seeker like these people, you can always ask Nithyananda to guide you, and he will be more than happy to.
Oh which means rich people have easy access????
When people provide service without attachment to the fruit of action , to me it is also a type of saddhana through Karma Yoga. That is not to say that one is not supposed to accept salary. The salary can be a byproduct , but it is not the reason for action ( service, work, etc ). Spreading the spiritual message as in the ashram or any other work outside , without attachments or aversion is also a type of saddhana in the path of Karma Yoga. That is not to say that the people in the ashram only practice Karma Yoga. Spiritual understanding can be a type of Jhana Yoga, devotion can be a part of Bhakti Yoga. Once it leads to the centering within and in the moment, it becomes meditation in motion. Instead of doing " meditation in life" , you are living a "life in meditation". That is where spirituality and everyday life meet.
I completely agree with what you said here.
The ashram provides an ambiance for people to learn how to work without reward and punishment ( desire and fear ) being the motivation factor. That doesn't mean that you can't practice this in your work place. It is just a little bit more challenging to do , because the system was set up in a way that it drives you through fear and desire ( reward and punishment).
Yes - ashram provides a platform for you to do your Sadhana. But if the same ashram becomes a marketing business then its a pity.
" Oh which means rich people have an easy access???
Not necessarily, Nithyananda usually travels around and gives talks, if you are in the area , you can just ask him.Nithyananda can easily tell if a person is a true seeker or not. And you don't have to live in an ashram to receive guidance from him . If you are an intense seeker, he'll guide you whether you attended his program or not. He doesn't ask for anything from you.
You should only promote his teaching out of gratitude and respect for the transformation it has on you. If it doesn't, no one will make you do that. Besides, if we don't develop stillness and bliss within ourselves , then how will we be able to spread that to others.
" Yes- ashram provides a platform for you to do your Sadhana. But if the same ashram becomes a marketing business then its a pity."
Often , at work we spend 40-60 hours a week working to promote something we don't have any interest in. If our true path is spiritual awakening, then shouldn't we rather be promoting that instead of promoting something that we probably don't have a passion for . I think it can be fulfilling to be able to practice spirituality, at the same time be able to share your passion with others and a create positive change . We live in a critical time where it is extremely important that people learn how to live an awake and aware life.
Not necessarily, Nithyananda usually travels around and gives talks, if you are in the area , you can just ask him.
These talks are mostly meant for attracting more crowd to the programs.
Nithyananda can easily tell if a person is a true seeker or not. And you don't have to live in an ashram to receive guidance from him . If you are an intense seeker, he'll guide you whether you attended his program or not. He doesn't ask for anything from you.
An intense seeker is guided by the divine no matter what.
You should only promote his teaching out of gratitude and respect for the transformation it has on you. If it doesn't, no one will make you do that. Besides, if we don't develop stillness and bliss within ourselves , then how will we be able to spread that to others.
No doubt, promote the teachings but for Gods sake don't charge a premium for that.
Often , at work we spend 40-60 hours a week working to promote something we don't have any interest in.
Who says so. Lot of people are interested in their work. Do you think Steve Jobs or Bill Gates are not that interested in working for their company. And why differentiate between this work and any other work. Its all the same. If you see differences - then its a problem.
If our true path is spiritual awakening, then shouldn't we rather be promoting that instead of promoting something that we probably don't have a passion for .
Advertisement and Promoting was never a part of spirituality. A seeker of truth finds his destination by the very force that made him seek. People who promote spirituality mostly end up being evangelists, trying to convert people into their faith/cult. Vivekananda said - First BE then MAKE. But more often than not, the philosophy of the current groups - is to first MAKE and never BE.
I think it can be fulfilling to be able to practice spirituality, at the same time be able to share your passion with others and a create positive change . We live in a critical time where it is extremely important that people learn how to live an awake and aware life.
Yes definitely a noble idea but should be done in a noble way where there is no discrimination between the rich and the poor, no vested interest in a particular segment of the society. Then it will yield the right results.
" If you see differences- then its a problem."
Then why do you see differences when people choose to spread the teachings instead of promoting more objects.
" These talks are mostly meant for attracting more crowd to the programs."
Actually a lot of people's problems and illness get resolve when they come to him and ask during the energy darshan.
" Advertisement and Promoting was never a part of spirituality. "
In Buddha's and Jesus' time there are no modern technology available. Their disciples spread the teachings by foot. In the jet age technology becomes available, it just means that more people can be transformed with its help .
"No doubt, promote the teachings but for Gods sake don't charge a premium for that."
It cost to print books, make videos, and travel to different places to teach.
We live in a critical time where it is extremely important that people learn how to live an awake and aware life.
But not at the expense of what they believe they're there to learn. Regardless of how much lip service Nithy pays to Vedanta, (as he gets paid lakhs of rupees by his devotees,) the example he gives from high on his pedestal is a perversion of that truth.
Then why do you see differences when people choose to spread the teachings instead of promoting more objects.
I never saw a difference. The problem is when people become greedy in spirtual field. The outside world is anyways greedy and they dont have a problem admitting that. Microsoft will admit that they want to make more money. But here these organizations will showcase as if they are doing some great spirtual upliftment work but in the background will be happy minting money and building ashrams for their own expansion and glorification.
Actually a lot of people's problems and illness get resolve when they come to him and ask during the energy darshan.
Its a placebo effect. 100 people come to you for cure, you heal every one. Out of 100 - 25 get cured because of a random chance. - these 25 then get taken for a ride..
n Buddha's and Jesus' time there are no modern technology available. Their disciples spread the teachings by foot. In the jet age technology becomes available, it just means that more people can be transformed with its help .
Yes make use of the jet age technology but don't charge jet age fees for your program. Be reasonable. Last year your programs cost was $250 - now why all of a sudden $1000. Please answer this question first?
It cost to print books, make videos, and travel to different places to teach.
Yes. So charge reasonably for your programs. Not $1000 for YSP and $5000 for 21 day enlightenment programs. That is nothing but GREED.....
The 21 day program cost USD $5000 in his ashram in India with very basic facilities. The workers of the program are are unpaid slave sevaks and ashramites.
Soon Nithy will be richer than SSRS.
I wonder how much he would charge for programs in the USA now.
The rate at which he is expanding his empire, I wont be surprised if he gets as rich as Sri Sri's Guru! Although I have to say, that Maharishi's business model was far more original in concept and execution...
It is well past time for westerners and Americans particularly to stop allowing themselves to be fleeced by gurus, preachers, and other con men. India has always been a rich country. It's just that the wealth is controlled by a few, who do not give in support of the poor masses. Let this Nithyananda and Ammachi, and Karunamayi use the money they raise in the west to help the poor here, where the money trail can be more honestly tracked. These guys don't help the poor in the west at all. They don't even help Africa which is in worse shape than India. Let them preach to the rich Indians. As for printing books, etc., it costs about a dollar to print books in India that sell for $25 in the US. If you look at Nithyananda's birth family, you will likely find them on easy street, just like She She's and Maharishi's.
If you look at Nithyananda's birth family, you will likely find them on easy street, just like She She's and Maharishi's.
No, actually that's one thing that's different. His mom and brother live in the ashram just like everyone else. They are not treated as special or accorded any special privileges in any way. Neither by Nithyananda nor by anyone else.
"Its a placebo effect. "
If a guy can heal cancer using the placebo effect , then I don't see why I should forgo it if I am in need of healing. Healing is healing. If you wouldn't want to be healed through " placebo" , then by all means stay with surgery and medication, it's simple.
" the example he gives from high on his pedestal "
One thing we need to keep in mind is that before one become fully realized, the ego needs to first dissolve. Somebody asked him a similar question and he said " I am nobody that is why I am up here, you are somebody that is why you need to be down there." His feet is simply a tool for you to lay down your ego. That is why it is not important who or what you are devoted to, the emphasis is on the letting go of your ego. Enlightened masters are not here to boost your ego, but to dissove it.
" Greed"
From what I understand he is just applying the law of attraction effectively. Bliss attracts abundance. We are living in an abundant universe made out of energy, and money is simply a form of manifested energy.
From what I learned, whatever you see is made out of mind stuff ( projected by the mind) , in other words energy vibrated at a slow frequency molded by the mind . He says " Let me be very clear, I am , made out of your mind stuff " ( your own projection). And that " Being awakened is to realize that the whole thing is made out of your mind stuff. Then what happens, you know, you can do anything you want to do. Sometimes you don't feel like doing anything, you'll relax. Sometimes, you feel like doing something , you will simply do it. For example, Vivekananda wanted to creates, he just creates. Ramana Maharishi doesn't wanted to do anything, he was just lying down. Both are awakened. When you are awakened , you know the science of this whole world. You know the basic formula out of which the whole thing was made."
" The workers of the program are are unpaid slave sevaks and ashramites"
From the videos, I heard that he wants to make this into an enlightened community. When a group of people are living enlightenment, it becomes an energy, inevitably everybody around will be spontaneously transformed. He says to make the whole world blissful, happy, you don't have to do anything else other than to shift your center. When one person even struggles to become enlightened raises the consciousness of at least millions of individuals. Enlightened master is a person who awakens the unknown enlightened dimension in you ( like the potential of a caterpillar to become a butterfly).
" don't help the poor in the west"
I agree when he says that " the west needs meditation and the east needs medication".
Betty
The problem is that these Guru's don't even help the poor in India let alone the poor in any other country.
They are engaged only in self glorification - building ashrams etc. with the hard earned money they receive from their disciples.
This is the sacrilegious state in which the Guru culture has landed into.
Being awakened is to realize that the whole thing is made out of your mind stuff. Then what happens, you know, you can do anything you want to do. Sometimes you don't feel like doing anything, you'll relax. Sometimes, you feel like doing something , you will simply do it. For example, Vivekananda wanted to creates, he just creates. Ramana Maharishi doesn't wanted to do anything, he was just lying down. Both are awakened. When you are awakened , you know the science of this whole world. You know the basic formula out of which the whole thing was made."
These are the words of a soothsaying nincompoop. "When you feel like doing something, you will simply do it." What's that supposed to mean? People are paying $5000 to hear this crap? Good thing for Nithy the world is full of morons who will pay to be told the obvious.
" building ashrams etc. "
Ashrams are places where disciples and devotees in the community can get together to experiment with and experience the essence of spiritual teachings and inner awakening . Outer transformation begins with inner transformation in the individuals .
Ashrams are places where disciples and devotees in the community can get together
Ashrams are places where centralized guru authority is concentrated, allowing for the most intense brainwashing to occur, as well as providing a place to collect money.
"When you feel like doing something, you will simply do it." What's that supposed to mean?"
The teaching is that life and the whole cosmos is a continuously changing dream ( halographic projection of the mind). Whatever you are doing is a conscious dream, whether it be driving, working, eating, or enjoying. The next question would be " If I'am dreaming, then why should I bother doing anything?" Why should you not do? He says why should you not do? In a dream you can't do anything wrong. You don't want to do because you take it seriously. If you remember that it is just a dream, your doing or non-doing is not going to change anything. Let It Happen ! Let you do what you are doing. Just be very clear that the whole thing is your projection. An enlightened person sees things the way it really is and lives life as if it were a play ( lila) , not as reality as everyone perceive.
An enlightened person sees things the way it really is and lives life as if it were a play ( lila) , not as reality as everyone perceive.
Another lie told by Nithy. We ALL see things the way it really is. Enlightenment does not entail a new perception, it merely reveals that we've been seeing things as they really are, all along. But that truth would make it harder to sell tickets, so Nithy lies in order to attract more fame and wealth for himself.
To put it a different way, enlightenment does not change the neurology of perception. How we see things before enlightenment is with the exact same neurological structures we use after enlightenment. There is no difference in perception, despite the preponderance of superstitious folk theories that make for convenient marketing tools for Nithy.
If there's a difference, it's in the attachment to outcome. After enlightenment—being shown our always existing freedom—we may be somewhat less identified with the happenings of our life. However, we are still perceiving those happenings in the exact same way, because that's just how the brain is structured for perception.
All I figured out is that Nithyananda discples do nothing but keep parroting what Nithyananda says.
This itself shows the dumbness that is inflicted upon a person due to brainwashing.
No original thinking. Just parroting.
About Ashrams
Nithyananda Ashrams are not a place to experiment with the truth. They are a place to devise strategies to get more money from rich folks, make ananda slaveks of already poor folks.
Bliss attacts fortune. But somehow Nithyananda Organization feels blissful when more money comes so ultimately it attracts tons of fortune...
" No original thinking. Just parroting."
When you're talking about someone's teachings, the last thing you would want to do is dilute their words and teachings. You would want to stay as close to the original as possible , hence the quoting and repeating the teachings as it is. If I am talking about my teaching then that's a different story, but I have no intention of doing that, the subject we're discussing is neither about me nor my teaching.
"About Ashrams"
I already said it as it is, you are entitled to your own opinion, no comment on that is necessary.
the last thing you would want to do is dilute their words and teachings. You would want to stay as close to the original as possible, hence the quoting and repeating the teachings as it is.
How to Start a Cult
Step 1: Never question the beliefs of the leader.
This is a perfect example of how cults work....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJyfqeaKU8
All followers should watch this....and see how much of it applies to them...with a OPEN MIND
" Step 1: Never question the beliefs of the leader."
Haven't I been answering all kinds of questions about Nithyananda's belief, teachings (and everything else under the sun), the whole time? lol..
I don't think we left out any single aspect .
Robert Greene's 48 Laws Of Power is a great read. It's amazing how so many of these abilities are exercised naturally and effortlessly by cult leaders, even if they're quite benign in their leadership:
http://www2.tech.purdue.edu/cg/Courses/cgt411/covey/48_laws_of_power.htm
Check this from time 9.47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GFkrv5lIyE
Question: can you materialize objects.
Answer why do you want me to materialize small objects I have materialized my entire ashram, sanyasis and this golden throne in 6 years.
Its sad, that Nithyananda can only think in terms of HIS Ashrams, HIS Sanyasis, HIS Golden Throne - which he thinks as his achievements in such short amount of time.
Haven't I been answering all kinds of questions about Nithyananda's belief, teachings (and everything else under the sun), the whole time? lol..
I don't think we left out any single aspect .
I guess you did not understand. Can you question your leader - why he has beautiful damsels for his welcome. Can you question him - why he charges exorbitant fees. You can never do that - else you will be kicked out of the cult which of course would be a blessing in disguise.
A true guru is one who can look well beyond the physical appearance, material possessions and position of a person and is able to treat all his disciples alike. When this fails, everything else fails. And that is the difference between God and humans. God loves his children alike, never considers anyone downtrodden and forgives all their mistakes. His language is love which most gurus fail to possess on this earth. They keep treating different people differently. When different people are treated differently in front of others without ever bothering about the feeling of hurt created in ailing souls, since so many distressed souls come to gurus considering them representatives of Gods and seeking a bit of solace, a word of kindness from them, then where is dharma on this earth?
In Los Angeles, Nithy sits on golden throne. His full it time slave sevaks who work for his mission day and night were not even provided basic dormitory housing. Nor are they given any special guidance. They have to just *believe* that when they work for Nithy, Nithy is with them.
If these slave sevaks are dedicated enough to work day and night w/o expecting anything in return, they may be selected to be ashramites and giving dormitory housing.
It is fantasic deal to work for Nithy.
If I haven't asked and found the answer to these questions myself, then how do you think I answered all your questions about his teachings and what not in the first place?
" Why he has beautiful damsels for his welcome. Can you question him?
Disciples comes in all forms, some are young, some are old, some looks good, some not. If you attended all the functions you will see that all these types of people are there at one time or another, at one occasion or another. All these years no one have a problem when the normal looking people are at these welcome, suddenly someone who looks good are at this event, you shriek. Why have a reverse discrimination against good looking people. Why have a distinction at all. In society people are valued for how good they look, that is an obvious discrimination. Now, in spirituality, you start devaluing good looking people. Isn't that still considered a discrimination? Sometimes good looking people are there, other times normal looking people are there. Let's not focus so much on how people look and make a distinction.
"- why he charges exorbitant fees."
If you go back and reread the conversation, I have answered the question and explained the different aspects of it. If you missed it, I will try to say it again, but it's extremely long.
" You can never do that - else you will be kicked out of the cult."
There is no cult to begin with , what is there to be kicked out of. Besides, I am not dependent on anybody, how can anyone kick me out of anything. He just guides me without expecting anything in return. I just live my life like everybody else.
The people in the ashrams are the ones who wanted to live in that ambiance. Who says you have to live in the ashram ,volunteer , or pay a lot of money to be guided by Nithyannada? You might come to that conclusion without knowing. When I say just ask him to guide you, I don't mean that you have to come to the ahsram ( besides, I don't think they have room to accept a lot of ashramite anymore). The person that invited you to come, they are just being nice and want to welcome you.
A lot of people around the world are guided by Nithyananda, if everyone who become his disciple come to the ashram and live, there would be no room.
You would think that the ashramites are slaves. If you come to the ashram in LA, everybody just do their own thing, studying the teaching and sharing the teaching with others. No one is there to tell them what to do.
Besides, he wants to create an enlightened community. When a group of people are enlightened , they can transform and enlighten others around them to raise the collective consciousness. The idea is to make as much people enlighten in the shortest time. And he has his way of approaching things and ways of thinking/ visualization. If you listen to Eckhart, that is what he's trying to do also, but in his own style. At this point in time, it is very important for people to take a quantum leap in human consciousness. Sometimes these enlightened masters are busy with their work but not telling everyone about the reason because they don't want people to be in fear, which would just create more drawbacks.
Without knowing we criticize their effort and say, what is the need to spread the message, just let it be as it always was, who cares if peoople are interested in awakening or not.
If you don't agree with Nithyananda's approach, you can always check out Eckhart Tolle. He is reaching out to transform more people through teleconference through the internet , once a week or something like that. It is a new program they are making available to everyone.
" His full it time slave sevaks who work for his mission day and night were not even provided basic dormitory housing. It is fantasic deal to work for Nithy. "
Whether you join a monastery in the Buddhist tradition, or an ashram , it is for the dissolution of the ego. It is not a typical job . Each tradition has its own way of removing your ego, depending on the path. When Nithyananda was practicing as a wandering saddhu for many years going from one place to another, he was not staying in the same place for more than one week. It is so that he will not get attached to any one place or one pattern of thought/ conditioning. Now the ashramite may stay in one place but it is important that they develop a mindset where they are not attached to any one spot as their own. It is possible for a person to leave the whole material world behind and become attach to one object or one spot. For example, a doctor leaving the world for spirituality but becomes attached to the spot that he always sit at, whenever someone else takes that spot he becomes angry. Or that a zen monk doesn't possesses anything but a pot, when it was stolen he cried and couldn't get over it eventhough he get another one. Attachments can come in many different forms. If you are looking for comfort and luxury, there is always the regular job, but if you're looking to uproot your attachments there are various method depending on the ahsram or monastery that you go to.
" Nor are they given any special guidance. They have to just *believe* that when they work for Nithy, Nithy is with them. "
Would I tell you to ask him for guidance from far away whether you join the ashram or not, if I don't know for sure that he can guide you. What good would that do. And I am speaking from personal experience , not from hearing anyone talked about it. You have to experience it to know. If your inner chatter is somewhat calm , he can guide you every steps of the way without being there physically. The reason I didn't want to mention this because this is something even I didn't believe before it happens. I thought it is best to let people experience for themselves without talking about it.
Now, in spirituality, you start devaluing good looking people. Isn't that still considered a discrimination? Sometimes good looking people are there, other times normal looking people are there. Let's not focus so much on how people look and make a distinction.
Problem is that Nithya has only good looking people around him. Hence the objection.
You would think that the ashramites are slaves. If you come to the ashram in LA, everybody just do their own thing, studying the teaching and sharing the teaching with others. No one is there to tell them what to do.
I guess you should go and see what happens there. Probably you do not have the right picture. Slaveks live under the autocratic power of Nithya..
Besides, he wants to create an enlightened community. When a group of people are enlightened , they can transform and enlighten others around them to raise the collective consciousness.
There are NO enlightened societies. In the Gita Krishna says - out of 1000 men - 1 is a seeker. Out of 1000 seekers one is enlightened. Enlightened society is a cultish and a ridiculous concept which will never come true.
The idea is to make as much people enlighten in the shortest time. And he has his way of approaching things and ways of thinking/ visualization.
Shortest time - lol. This is not a crash course or a contest. Enlightenment is not a joke - that it can happen in Nithya Ashrams through a fast track. That is what each cult will claim though.
Without knowing we criticize their effort and say, what is the need to spread the message, just let it be as it always was, who cares if peoople are interested in awakening or not.
There is nothing wrong in spreading the message. The problem is the means used to spread the message.
If you don't agree with Nithyananda's approach, you can always check out Eckhart Tolle. He is reaching out to transform more people through teleconference through the internet , once a week or something like that. It is a new program they are making available to everyone
I guess this blog aims are enlightening people about False Gurus. Since general consensus is that Nithyananda falls in that list - we are discussing to clarify the position. We are not here to seek alternatives.
If you are looking for comfort and luxury, there is always the regular job, but if you're looking to uproot your attachments there are various method depending on the ahsram or monastery that you go to.
In case of Nithyas wandering - he was not a slave to anyone. Unfortunately in the ashram - ananda slaveks are Nithyas slaves. Thats the difference.
If your inner chatter is somewhat calm , he can guide you every steps of the way without being there physically.
The biggest problem that I see in your argument is that you are personifying the impersonal. You say - he will guide you. Who is he? Nithyananda - then you are badly mistaken. That is the reason Upanishads always referred to it as THAT. But in these cultish groups THAT gets replaced by the Cult Leader
The reason I didn't want to mention this because this is something even I didn't believe before it happens.
Believing is thinking. Thinking is of the mind. There is nothing to believe in - neither Nithyananda or anybody else. No person is guiding you. You are THAT from the very beginning.
The error in thinking happens because of the Guru's vested interest in keeping the disciples subservient to him. Such a Guru will never ask the disciples to focus on their spiritual practice. Rather he will continuously brag about his supreme state - the avataric consciousness to keep the disciples in a daze and in the background get his work done from them. He always gives a false assurance that he will take care of their enlightenment and they should focus on their cult expansion work.
Unfortunately disaster results from such tyrannical unjust autocratic guru power. A wise disciple should have the discrimination to see this and step aside before it gets too late.
I can tell you one thing guys. It is immaterial whether any discrimination is on or not. But there is one person in this world who will not discriminate you and that is God himself. He is above religion. So you need not worry. That is one reason for relief since he is far above all gurus and spiritual icons in this world.
" Problem is that Nithya has only good looking people around him. Hence the objection. "
There are all types of people around him, both young and old. If you really look pass the discrimination between good and bad looking , then why do you even see a difference between good looking and bad looking. But that's all you see or focus on. Look comes and goes with age. It is impermanent. Attachment to it only lead to pain and suffering later when it starts to fade. This is what comes with identification with the body as self.
" I guess you should go and see what happens there. Probably you do not have the right picture. Slaveks live under the autocratic power of Nithya."
Many people consider Nithyananda a visionary and a modern mystic. Everyday, day in and day out people in the community and all over the world seek out his counsel on all subject matters relating to life, death, and liberation. His guidance is always welcomed and sought after by many in the ashram and elsewhere in the world.
"There are NO enlightened societies. "
I am not saying enlightened society, but an enlightened community, even if it is very small, no more than a handful of people can have a positive effect in others. 2012 is fast approaching, I believe there will be many changes to come in the coming years.
" Enlightenment is not a joke - that it can happen in Nithya Ashrams through a fast track. "
When one person is enlightened, he/she can be a catalyst to help others remember their true nature, as can be be seen in the past.
" There is nothing wrong in spreading the message. The problem is the means used to spread the message."
There are many ways to approach a problem , each person will have their own ideas. Both Nithyananda and Eckhart spread the message in their own ways. There is no one right way. Some will complain, why is Eckhart creating an internet class program, not everyone will have easy computer access, etc..
" enlightening people about False Gurus"
In my opinion, it is more misleading then enlightening. Events are reported in a twisted and exaggerated fashion. There is a tendency to make uninforned conclusion and generalizaion, based on supperficial observation. For example, the age and looks of the guru, the age and looks of the disciples, the guru's clothing, his billboard, etc.. Somehow I find it rather amusing. In society peoople are valued and judge by how rich, beautiful and young they are. Here, people are devalued for how young , rich and good looking they are. It is simply a reverse discrimination, that's all. Neither measuring stick is reliable when it comes to judging a person's character.
Whether in society or in spirituality, the rule of thumb is " Don't judge a book by its cover". If we go by your standard, Krishna and Jartaka would have been considered false guru and unspiritual, and spiritual seekers would be lead to disregard and disrespect them.
This is what comes with identification with the body as self.
This does not explain why Nithya still prefers good looking girls to welcome him/serve him
but an enlightened community,
Show me one enlightened community in this world. Even that is a ridiculous concept. Again arises from cult psychology.
When one person is enlightened, he/she can be a catalyst to help others remember their true nature, as can be be seen in the past.
No one can help you to become enlightened. It is your journey. The divine grace or the Guru-kripa falls on you as a result of your sincerity and conviction in the spirtual practice. Living in Nithya Ashrams does not take you anywhere. Moreover if that ashram is not a place for Spritual practice then it will distract you.
Both Nithyananda and Eckhart spread the message in their own ways. There is no one right way.
Crime does not reduce if more thief's are in the town. In fact it increases. I am not sure what Ekharte is doing. But what Nithya is doing definitely seems incorrect and unjust.
In society peoople are valued and judge by how rich, beautiful and young they are. Here, people are devalued for how young , rich and good looking they are
Exactly. Society values rich and the good looking. Nithyananda should not be valuing them. He should look at all with an equal eye.
Don't judge a book by its cover". If we go by your standard, Krishna and Jartaka would have been considered false guru and unspiritual, and spiritual seekers would be lead to disregard and disrespect them.
Calling a spade a spade is not judging. And doesn't Nithyananda judge people. Oh - he is rich let me give him direct access to me. What are you talking about. Reduce your program fees to $250 and I will accept that you do not judge based on money.
" In case of Nithyas wandering - he was not a slave to anyone. Unfortunately in the ashram - ananda slaveks are Nithyas slaves. Thats the difference."
If you are trying to get to an unknown land, a person who just came back from that very land will become a great guide that takes you directly there without having to make a lot of wrong turns. You can find the way yourself, it's just longer and more confusing. But the choice lies with each person.
If you want to refer to spiritual seekers that are committed to their enlightenment and the enlightenment of millions of others like themselves as slaves, that is your choice.
" The biggest problem that I see in your argument is that you are personifying the impersonal. You say - he will guide you. Who is he? Nithyananda - then you are badly mistaken. That is the reason Upanishads always referred to it as THAT. But in these cultish groups THAT gets replaced by the Cult Leader "
This is a misconception of Nithyananda's teaching on your part. He always tells disciples to not just experience the Formless Essence in his 6-foot form. It is a form that makes it easy for you to interact with your Formless Essence. You're supposed to start feeling it everywhere and in everything. Don't get attach to the form, because doing so you miss seeing the formless energy, which is your very essence.
" Believing is thinking. Thinking is of the mind. There is nothing to believe in - neither Nithyananda or anybody else. No person is guiding you. You are THAT from the very beginning. "
It is true that you are THAT from the very beginning, but through identification with body and mind, you forgot the qualities and characteristics of THAT. Nithyananda serves as a linking bridge that helps you reconnect with THAT. And from there you are able to allow the current of the universe ( THAT, Cosmic Energy, True Self ,etc..) to carry you. At the moment, you follow mind or ego. You have to go from intellect ( mind) to intuition. You need to learn how to live beyond mind, and express THAT in your life.
You may call others slaves, but you yourself remain a slave to your mind and ego. At least they are are doing something about it , and try to go beyond mind. Let's not just say " I am THAT", but actually get to know or remember what THAT is like, and live to express THAT, instead of continuing to be a slave to our mind and ego.
If you are trying to get to an unknown land, a person who just came back from that very land will become a great guide that takes you directly there without having to make a lot of wrong turns.
This simile is itself a great progenitor and continuing generator of ignorance. Your use of this simile is PROOF that a), you have no experiential clue about what you are saying, and b), you have been sent here with the task of putting up a propaganda front for Nithy, so as to hopefully sway those seeking information away from their own good discrimination so they may be led into a cult.
There is no journey to nondual truth. Nondual truth exists nowhere else but right here, right now. When one is blessed to see this, immediately they know all their seeking was for naught. To quote Ramana:
"There is no greater mystery than this, that we keep seeking reality though in fact we are reality. We think that there is something hiding reality and that this must be destroyed before reality is gained. How ridiculous! A day will dawn when you will laugh at all your past efforts. That which will be the day you laugh is also here and now."
Your guru is an out-of-control narcissist and a danger to the continuing spiritual lives of ALL of his devotees.
If you are trying to get to an unknown land, a person who just came back from that very land will become a great guide that takes you directly there without having to make a lot of wrong turns. You can find the way yourself, it's just longer and more confusing. But the choice lies with each person.
There is no person who comes back. Clear your misunderstanding.
If you want to refer to spiritual seekers that are committed to their enlightenment and the enlightenment of millions of others like themselves as slaves, that is your choice.
committed to their enlightenment? Whose enlightenment? Enlightenment is NEVER of the individual. Again the misconception. Clear your understanding.
He always tells disciples to not just experience the Formless Essence in his 6-foot form. It is a form that makes it easy for you to interact with your Formless Essence.
Truth is beyond form and formlessness. What are you talking about? Again clear your understanding.
Nithyananda serves as a linking bridge that helps you reconnect with THAT.
How can there be a bridge between real and the unreal. Again you need to clear your understanding.
You have to go from intellect ( mind) to intuition. You need to learn how to live beyond mind, and express THAT in your life.
Good parroting.
You may call others slaves, but you yourself remain a slave to your mind and ego. At least they are are doing something about it , and try to go beyond mind.
Who is the slave of the mind and ego? THAT? Then you are terribly mistaken. If not THAT who else? Please answer. Else clear your understanding.
Let's not just say " I am THAT", but actually get to know or remember what THAT is like, and live to express THAT, instead of continuing to be a slave to our mind and ego.
THAT is attributeless. What will you know and remember. And how can THAT know itself. You are introducing duality into the picture. This is what happens when the non dual teachings are maligned by these Gurus where their disciples start interpreting things the way their Guru wants them to for his own glorification.
" THAT is attributeless. What will you know and remember. And how can THAT know itself. You are introducing duality into the picture. "
Perhaps you are confused. Given that THAT is attributeless, but through the mind you can only perceive duality. Non duality cannot be experienced through the mind, no matter how many questions you may ask . Yoga is the cessation of mind.
Yoga is the cessation of mind.
That's a folk theory, based on ancient ignorance about neurology. Yoga isn't the cessation of the mind, yoga is seeing what is beyond the mind, which is ourselves.
" Yoga isn't the cessation of the mind, yoga is seeing what is beyond the mind, which is ourselves."
And what do you use to see beyond the mind? Don't tell me your mind. If mind doesn't come to a cessation then how can you experience what is beyond it.
And what do you use to see beyond the mind?
Your inept employment of a metaphor I discarded in my definition is noted.
Perhaps you are confused. Given that THAT is attributeless, but through the mind you can only perceive duality.
What is mind?
Non duality cannot be experienced through the mind, no matter how many questions you may ask .
Firstly non duality can never be experienced. Experience means an experiencer and the experienced. Since nonduality cannot have both -it cannot be experienced. I guess you are confused.
Yoga is the cessation of mind.
That is not correct. Yoga is not the cessation of the mind. Yoga is going beyond the thought currents in consciousness
ramana maharishi,shirdi sai baba,ramakrishna paramamsha are only true enlightened people.they never collected money from anyone. all others are fake. all other using ramanas name and collecting money in the name of ramana maharishi.
satya saibaba, nityananda, aum amma are all fake bastards.
experiences of devotees of ramana maharishi and shirdi sai baba cant be seen anymore. for example " ramana maharishi,st francis of assiss had ability to communicate with animals like monkeys,cows,cobra,etc. this sort of power is not any more seen among present day fake gurus. somebody please save people from fake gurus.if some want to crticise ramana please read the experiences of paul bruton, mercedes de acousta, humpry etc.
"What is mind?"
It is that which knows, or what you call the experiencer.
" Firstly non duality can never be experienced. Experience means an experiencer and the experienced. Since nonduality cannot have both -it cannot be experienced. "
Mind is that which knows / the experiencer. If it doesn't come to a cessation, the experiencer still remains. Duality still persist.
"Yoga is the cessation of mind.
That is not correct. Yoga is not the cessation of the mind. Yoga is going beyond the thought currents in consciousness "
It is not just Nithyananda's or Patanjali's teachings, but the Buddha also taught nibbana as the remainderless cessation of this process we call body and mind. You're the only one who " teach" that it is to merely going beyond thought. Which means you are still stuck in currents of consciousness. The experiencer remains. You are in duality.
It is that which knows, or what you call the experiencer.
What an embarrassment you are to your guru! You don't have a clue about Vedanta and are speaking directly from your behind!
You sir, are the proof that Nithy is a fraud.
Jody, my brains will not sharpen to so fine a point that I can understand the argument about the mind cessatin... Can you help this sorry son of the sod to get this here point?
It is that which knows, or what you call the experiencer.
No. the fact is that when the so called experiencer comes in contact with the experienced - both dissolve into pure experience which is pure consciousness. So there never was an experiencer to begin with.
Mind is that which knows / the experiencer. If it doesn't come to a cessation, the experiencer still remains. Duality still persist
Its not that the mind ceases to exist. That is a total misconception. Its only that the self which was initial seeing the non-self, starts seeing self everywhere. The mind still functions.
It is not just Nithyananda's or Patanjali's teachings, but the Buddha also taught nibbana as the remainderless cessation of this process we call body and mind. You're the only one who " teach" that it is to merely going beyond thought. Which means you are still stuck in currents of consciousness. The experiencer remains. You are in duality.
You are utterly confused I guess. You say that its going beyond the thought as per my understanding and then you say that I am stuck in the currents of consciousness. What are you talking - are you on opium or something ?
First understand what is duality. When gold is made into ornaments - it creates duality. When the same gold ornaments are seen as gold alone we call it non duality. In both cases the mind sees the ornaments only but now in the latter case the mind sees it non-different from itself and anything else.
Sure, Chuckji.
The mind is totally embodied. This is the finding of 2nd generation cognitive neuroscience. If the mind ceased, the body would die, no question about it, for 95% of the mind is ongoing in what is our cognitive unconscious.
The Rishis didn't have the benefit of neuroscience when they were coming up with this stuff. They were working under the assumption that the conscious mind was the entire mind. They observed that the conscious mind would become quiet (less active) under the influence of meditation, thus they assumed that samadhi represented a cessation of the mind's activities.
But to say that a complete cessation of even just the conscious mind's activities is what indicates enlightenment is still wrong thinking. Jnana has nothing to do with the mind, active or quiet. The moment of realization doesn't only occur when the conscious mind gets quiet. It can happen to anyone at any time for whatever reason. Jnana is recognizing what IS NOT the mind, not a delivery of special knowledge once the mind is shut off.
Thank you, Jody. I will contemplate this here info and get back wit you! Can a feller be real dumb and still be enlightened? Has any folks from East Texas ever been kick thru the goal posts of life?
Hey you guys, you are saying: cessation of thoughts and going beyond the mind...
In my out-of-duality-EXPERIENCE that is just about the same, remember we are in the realm of WORDS here...
To me this Nithyananda seem to be a self-deluded fool... I'll pop by when I get there in a months time..
Because you have trouble understanding doesn't mean that I or anybody should be embarrass. In this case it is the other way around.
Cessation of mind is the death of the ego, not your true essence. Living Enlightenment is living beyond mind, living with intuition.
However , that doesn't mean that you will physically die. If that is the case then how does the Buddha continue to teach until 80.
It is hard for people to understand this, but what can I say.
Living Enlightenment is living beyond mind, living with intuition.
And thus you reveal the kernel of the fraud that is being perpetrated by Nithyananda. We now know that he has taken a big fat shit on the Upanishads, that he ignores the teachings of Ramana, that he has no idea whatsoever about the functions of the human nervous system, and that he has invented a state of consciousness which exists only in his grandiose fantasy.
It is hard for people to understand this
And thus you reveal the modus operandi of his cult operation. Tell people what they know and believe is wrong, offer them "the truth" for a price, and make sure they believe that you are the only one who has the truth, bones tossed in the direction of Eckhart Tolle (who has many problems of his own) aside.
Why start with name calling . That, any fool can do. But what is the point of that.
"We now know that he has taken a big fat shit on the Upanishads"
You are free to live with your assumption.
The word Upanishads itself refers to just sitting with an Enlightened Being/ Guide. It is about going beyond the inner chatter of the mind and awaken to your True Essence. Yet you protest so strongly when someone mentions about going beyond mind.
Yet you protest so strongly when someone mentions about going beyond mind.
Only because I understand that we are all already existing beyond the mind, by default, not by the instructions of fraudulent gurus. If you understood Vedanta, you'd agree. However, that's no way to populate a cult and fatten a bank account, is it? You have to SELL something, so Nithy has created a false idea of enlightenment to sell. But if you asked me, he needs to replace his salesman.
Because you have trouble understanding doesn't mean that I or anybody should be embarrass. In this case it is the other way around.
Cessation of mind is the death of the ego, not your true essence. Living Enlightenment is living beyond mind, living with intuition.
Living enlightenment is a ridiculous concept introduced by Nithyananda for which he charges thousands of dollars. This is not supported by the Upanishads. There is no such thing as living enlightenment. Either a person is a jeevan mukta or he is not. there is no such thing as living like one or spoofing like one. You are making a fool of yourself by introducing such nonsensical terms.
When you say live enlightenment - it indicates a personal entity who is living enlightenment. That is contradictory to the very idea of enlightenment. I guess Nithyananda Foundation should do a crash course in Advaita Vedanta before they start teaching others.
" Only because I understand that we are all already existing beyond the mind, by default "
Living beyond mind and ego is not a new concept. But many people are unfamiliar with it and don't know how to start. This is what I believe Nithyananda is bringing to the mainstream.
" When you say live enlightenment - it indicates a personal entity who is living enlightenment. "
Perhaps you are not familiar with the term Living Enlightenment. It is about incorporating spirituality into everyday life. In Awakening, one no longer identifies with body and mind as self. The idea of being a separate entity is no longer there. At the present moment, many still function from the delusion of being a separately existing entity. Since the idea of self and others is present, there is a strong impulse for attacking others out of fear or self defense. We just need to turn on the news channel to see how this is reflected in the world.
Living beyond mind and ego is not a new concept. But many people are unfamiliar with it and don't know how to start. This is what I believe Nithyananda is bringing to the mainstream.
Actually, Nithy is merely selling the same old superstitious claptrap that his market believes they need to buy. There is nothing new in his approach compared to that of most other self-aggrandizing gurus. In other words, they all sell the same thing, because they are marketing against the presupposition of their own specialness. They are offering their own "exalted" state to their followers (after a significant extraction of their cash.) Because these followers are clueless about the depth of the delusion of the guru, they buy like it's going out of style.
It is about incorporating spirituality into everyday life.
Correction: spirituality is nothing except ordinary life.
In Awakening, one no longer identifies with body and mind as self.
Correction: in awakening, the truth of being is revealed as the ongoing condition of all being.
The idea of being a separate entity is no longer there.
Correction: the idea that one is exclusive to their identity as a separate being is no longer there. I promise you that Nithy knows he is a separate being, regardless of how much he lies to conform to the superstitions of Hinduism.
At the present moment, many still function from the delusion of being a separately existing entity.
That is called the evolutionary purpose of conscious awareness.
Since the idea of self and others is present, there is a strong impulse for attacking others out of fear or self defense.
That is called life in the world, pollyannaish notions about spiritual reality notwithstanding.
We just need to turn on the news channel to see how this is reflected in the world.
Nithy's "solution" to what we find on the news is nothing more than the addition of yet more delusion. He's offering another layer of identification, one that is much more insidious in its power to delude as his students are told it is enlightenment. It's the classic bait-and-switch employed by every other big-time guru to blight the spiritual landscape. In the end, it ALWAYS comes back to the "power" of the guru, in other words, their lust for name and fame.
Okay, you don't seem to know what you are talking about. I am not interested in listening to personal assumptions. It's getting boring now.
I am not interested in listening to personal assumptions.
That fact that you are only seeing assumptions in what is being said is the final accounting of this discussion. Your failure to recognize an honest rendering of Vedantic truth is the failure of your guru to instill ANYTHING that could be considered spiritual understanding.
Can a feller be real dumb and still be enlightened?
Chuckji, I believe that enlightenment has as much to do with intelligence as my dog's ass! ;)
Okay, you don't seem to know what you are talking about. I am not interested in listening to personal assumptions. It's getting boring now.
And your assumptions are falling from the sky? This is a nice way of quiting - especially when you have exhibited zero understanding of Vedanta.
I guess Nithyananda and you and all other folks misguided by these erroneous teachings should seriously consider reading some basic books on Vedanta so that the right understanding can flower.
Jody said...Chuckji, I believe that enlightenment has as much to do with intelligence as my dog's ass! ;)
.............
Jody, this here is country music to my hair and wax clogged ears! It's like hearin Jimmy Driftwood singin The Tennessee Stud with Eddy Arnold and blind Doc Watson doin harmony!
You say, "The mind is totally embodied." So ever thang a boy is seein, smellin, feelin, tastin, hearin, and thinkin is the mind, includin the old boy hissself? This here makes a man squirm like when you put yore hand into a glove filled with vaseline or when a fat girl tries to tongue kiss you under the bleachers! I can see why most folks would rather jist nock back a few long necks and watch Jesus on the the TV!
Thanks for the info...
All I can see is that you are just irritated with anything gurus do but by doing that you are trying to be one!
Let me ask you out of curiosity. How do you know the land was not already a parking lot? Did you see it? Do you know how many trees have been planted after the beginning of a temple there?
Who is writing his stuff? It obviosly isnt him...
Almost all of the books are transcriptions of Nithyananda's Free Public Discourses.
This Nithyananda claims he can give enlightenment to anyone, at least to truly want it. Many of his slave sevaks wants enlightenment so much that they slaves their lives away in the hope of being bestowed the grace of enlightenment.
I'm one of his disciples. I was a Sevak at one time and now an ashramite.
To become enlightened all you need is for your inner Guru to be awakened. If you are able to do that then you don't need any help or any outer Guru. But alas! the majority of the population is now drowned in imaginations and fantasies. If a person puts someone in these imaginations to exploit surely he is a fraud. But from my experience I have seen so many people come out of their worries and suffering just by being around Nithyananda even for a little time. If you have not tried you have no right to comment :)
Be clear that neither I nor anyone is a slave. It is only by your mind's delusion that you become one. Not by your intelligence. If you work you are a slave to your boss. Not when you volunteer out of inspiration.
Coming to know yourself as the Atman doesn't make you any different than you were before you saw yourself as that.
But it certainly does make a change in how you live and how you think.
That's just another opinion. Let's compare. I don't like Nithyananda's temple because he has encroached on the wild area around Arunachala, more so than any other organization, tearing up the local habitat in the process; versus, you believe the already holy mountain can be made more holy by a wholesale ecological destruction.
I think your tipster didn't get you the right facts in this case. The area was already in that state when it was donated. In fact hundreds of new trees found in other parts of Arunachala were planted after the land was donated.
Let's make one thing perfectly clear: no matter how many homas are performed, no matter how many lingams are installed, nor how big; the holiness of that place will always remain ENTIRELY a matter of opinion.
But it certainly does make a difference in how you are able to tune to its presence if you don't have awareness and are caught with everyday problems.
That billboard with the lingams says it all: the great guru standing ABOVE a thousand symbols of Shiva.
In that case no one should fly! Moreover the billboards are designed by disciples not Nithyananda.
But tearing up a new parking lot closer to Arunachala than anything built before is a gross act, seemingly laden with a ponderous hubris, and tragically destructive to the local environment.
Again the fact is Nithyananda planted a lot of trees not buldozed them!
I'm also saying that making himself God for his devotees is a double-edged sword. He can help people by giving them someone to believe in, but the erroneous idea about self-realization that results only impedes their spiritual progress.
You know very well that Nithyananda always says. 'I'm not here to prove that I'm God. I'm here to prove that you are God'. I've seen him closely for two years. He means every word of it. In fact he recently drove 12,000 kms and walked almost 500 kms on treacherous Indian Roads to every small village to bring awareness on Living Enlightenment. I don't know if you have seen those pictures.
Neurological structures in the brain.
It has been scientifically and factually proven by many neurologists that when Nithyananda heals a repairing and rewiring of the Neurological structures happens significantly in the patient even though the patient knows nothing about healing.
This relies on a wholly erroneous folk theory of enlightenment. That theory states that enlightened people radiate the energy of enlightenment, and that this energy can be transferred from its source, the guru's enlightenment, to the student.
If this were actually the case, we'd all be well enlightened by now.
Well you got it almost right. The one thing that is required is the consent and conscious choice of the person who wants to be enlightened! Not everyone wants to be enlightened in their core. Many just waste theirs as well as others time trying to project themselves as 'seekers' when all they are seeking is attention and power.
was a sight to behold in itself mainly because he had beautiful damsels as escorts lined up
Your twisted lust oriented thought patterns, arrogant male chauvinism, and discrimination against women noted!
Buddha.Jesus.Ramana Maharshi etc.. is well known for their boundless compassion/love.
Their compassion flows in different ways. Sometimes it expresses as anger. The same way a mother would be angry at her loving child to correct the child's mistakes.
All our problems are due to repeated corrupt mental patterns. The Enlightened Master's compassion by itself is a great inspiration to drop our mental patterns.
Ramana Maharishi is known to have been angry many times. Please read 'Letters from Sri Ramanashramam' at http://suri-nagamma.blogspot.com/
The Enlightened Master's compassion by itself is a great inspiration to drop our mental patterns.
The fact that you capitalize the term "Enlightened Master" is a telling statement in-and-of-itself. Nithy has made himself the magic, enlightening lamp. He's putting on a 'Ramana' show, but like a specialized cover band that emulates the Rolling Stones, it is at best, a poor imitation. Much more akin to a Rolling Clone.
The fact that you capitalize the term "Enlightened Master" is a telling statement in-and-of-itself
I never mentioned anything about Nithyananda. Do not imagine what is not there!
Do not imagine what is not there!
Do not imagine that even a rock could not conclude you are speaking exactly about Nithy.
To put it a different way, enlightenment does not change the neurology of perception...If there's a difference, it's in the attachment to outcome. After enlightenment—being shown our always existing freedom—we may be somewhat less identified with the happenings of our life.
You are contradicting yourself. Even attachment is a neurological perception!
Do not imagine that even a rock could not conclude you are speaking exactly about Nithy.
You are not talking facts. You are talking on assumptions. But that's your choice.
You are contradicting yourself. Even attachment is a neurological perception!
Actually, I didn't, but I could have used better terminology. Enlightenment does not change the *biology* of perception out of hand, i.e. the kinds of perception that can be had, but the presence of jnana in a life is a neurologically mediating influence. As you said before: "But it certainly does make a change in how you live and how you think."
but the presence of jnana...
You are making a difference between presence of jnana and absence of it. But you are the one who is vehemently holding on to the point that there is no difference between a person who is enlightened and not. This is what I'm saying is contradicting.
But you are the one who is vehemently holding on to the point that there is no difference between a person who is enlightened and not.
Only in terms of the presence of the Atman.
Everyone is the Atman.
Some people know this as a direct perception.
But that is not an increase of Atman.
As opposed to:
Everyone is the Atman.
Some people know this as direct perception.
Thus, the knower of Atman brings a greater quantity of Atman to the world.
From which we get the Nithy as the magic enlightening lamp metaphor.
Speaking factually Nithyananda says this nowhere.
Some people know this as direct perception.
With this statement you are accepting that 'there is a difference' between the enlightened and people who are not - based on whether they have 'jnana'. In other places you are saying that all is Atman and there is 'no difference'. This is the contradiction.
I'm just trying to help some wash theirs out.
Your desire to be like one of those gurus whom you are thinking about day and night - noted!
But this person gives fruits and flowers, special blessings to the rich/beautiful women. Is that what you expect from a guru?
Your bad eyesight due to excessive lust noted! You can be in your occluding delusion by your choice.
Nithyananda shits and pisses on the Upanishads AND the teachings of Buddha, not by what he says, but by what he wants us to believe about him, that he is a living God on Earth.
This is not true. He never told anywhere that he is God and you are not!
Can you please explain why your Guru turns spirituality into a money making business.
Charging $1000 bucks for a 2 day program seems ridiculous.
Please explain if you can?
Your horrible awareness to read a flyer/website noted!
Nithyananda has walked on foot thousands of miles and drove more than 12000 miles for three months this year to people's huts/houses in remote villages to meet and help them understand the same techniques he is teaching in these programs. For people who are able to come and attend and pay they come to the classes. For those who cannot he goes to them!
Moreover people enjoy their time during the programs. It is a direct service that they get. People who attend his program tell me that they got all their money's worth in the first few hours of the workshop. For the program hundreds of volunteers put their effort. They need to have their basic needs met. The venue, the service, the organizing everything takes resources.
If you are unable to pay or a stingy miser or a blood sucking leech the same knowledge is for FREE from the all the mentioned sources. It is the exact message what he gives in his workshops.
He has already talked on all the major Upanishads, Brahma Sutra, Shiva Sutras etc and now is speaking on Patanjali Yoga Sutras all over the US and Canada. ALL ARE FREE.
Everyday hundreds come to him seeking counselling. Everything FREE.
More than 500 youtube clips on the web on all topics - FREE.
100s of Introductory meditation programs - FREE
This completely has all the teachings of Nithyananda to date. These sources give you exactly what you also get in a workshop. You can use all of them FREE FREE FREE!
If you are a normal average person who cannot pay but you want to attend some workshop you can take the one day program for only $150.
For the following activities many people want to feel a part of. Not that they are donating for it because they are not giving something for free. They are getting a service in the form of a workshop. So they take the classes for $750.
Everyday more than 10000 people get food - FREE
'100 servies in a day' in more than 50 villages including bread medicine, footwear, clothing, blood donation helping orphanages etc. - all FREE
Multi-speciality services, free diagnosis and treatment for more than 20000 people a month - FREE
With this statement you are accepting that 'there is a difference' between the enlightened and people who are not - based on whether they have 'jnana'.
And... you should finish:
That jnana does not render anyone any more God than anyone else.
Nithy CLEARLY wants people to believe he is more God than others. I give you the billboard. I give you the picture of him as a God. And don't forget the crazy expressions of devotion left by some of his students on these pages.
In other places you are saying that all is Atman and there is 'no difference'. This is the contradiction.
Piddling semantics which leaves out the meat of my point. We can break it down thus:
Nithy has realized the Self.
Therefore, he is more divine than anyone else.
This is clearly the aim of his marketing.
As opposed to:
Nithy has realized the Self.
Therefore, he knows who he is as the Self.
The difference here is that I'm saying "big deal," it really doesn't make you different than anyone who doesn't yet know, other than the fact of the knowing, which in terms of the world is inconsequential.
Nithy is saying BIG DEAL, because it makes him God and if you come and see him (and give him your money) you will be physically closer to God, where many wonderful miracles occur.
To which I would say, big deal, "miracles" of this type are a common feature of human neurology, and have everything to do with a faith in miracles, not in any special powers Nithy is trying to flaunt.
By hoisting himself on that pedestal, Nithy shits on Vedanta, which holds we are all always God anyway at all times, whether or not we have a direct perception of that.
Your desire to be like one of those gurus whom you are thinking about day and night - noted!
My desire is to make sure everyone knows that every one of those gurus is no more God than anyone else. I'm trying to pull them off their pedestals and back down to where the rest of us live. I am doing this for a very specific reason, as I am convinced the "I am divine because I am enlightened" metaphor creates much more ignorance than it clears away.
I give you the billboard. I give you the picture of him as a God.
Firstly the billboard link is broken. Next the picture of him as God? Be clear to whom. He is not God to anyone on the street! Anyone who realizes that everything IS - they see even Nithyananda as God. In fact you clearly know and have posted that it was not Nithyananda who propagated this and whatever the disciples did was removed.
Nithy has realized the Self.
Therefore, he is more divine than anyone else.
Let me put in your words:
Nithyananda has realized the Self.
Therefore, he has jnana!
The difference here is that I'm saying "big deal,"
Your opinion noted
Nithy is saying BIG DEAL, because it makes him God
Lets talk facts. Do you have a single place where he says it happens because of him?
By hoisting himself on that pedestal, Nithy shits on Vedanta,
By Vedanta, even Vedanta is a neurological experience and hence not ablsolute for the absolute can never be put to words like you do. You are shitting on Vedanta, the Vedic Science and all the Enlightened who happened, happening, and will happen in both time and space and any other dimension if there be.
Nithyananda spends time on tea benches on the roadside along with any normal person. When he recently walked 1000 kms and drove 12000 miles he stayed in huts and most uncomfortable areas and walked on bare foot many times in the hot Indian climate. I know many times he doesn't even eat because someone needs some counselling.
He has gone to the extreme of pulling 36 families from the training period for Vanaprastha so everyone understands that Enlightenment is the core, not Sannyas and that anyone can be and is already enligtened and as enlightened as him!
You have also hoisted yourself on the same pedestal and you are doing what you claim Nithyananda to be doing. You enjoy cursing gurus and even more when people complement you for it and have become addicted. But its your choice and I have nothing to do with it. You do whatever.
My desire is to make sure everyone knows that every one of those gurus is no more God than anyone else.
Your very desire is just another neurological pattern. Whether you prove or not whether you blog or not whether you believe or not Truth is Truth!
I'm trying to pull them off their pedestals and back down to where the rest of us live.
You are working on the Jagat which will take you nowhere.
"I am divine because I am enlightened" metaphor creates much more ignorance than it clears away.
nahi nahi rakshati dukrinj karane
The ones which don't help, we don't buy them - simple.
Who asked you to buy?
spirituality is not a business which you people make of
Who is selling spirituality? What are you even talking about? Knowledge is FREE.
Your job is to share this precious knowledge which you claim to have.
Read my previous post. Its not your domain to order someone.
vivek said...
You know very well that Nithyananda always says. 'I'm not here to prove that I'm God. I'm here to prove that you are God'.
"Say 'the savior is within' and everyone will canonize you as a savior."
-- Mark Joyner, author of Mind Control Marketing.
vivek said...
He has already talked on all the major Upanishads, Brahma Sutra, Shiva Sutras etc
Correction: He has never spoken on any of the principal Upanishads, nor the Brahma Sutras. In fact, he has never given public discourses on Advaita Vedanta in any form. Get your facts straight.
I was an ashramite once too, and that was one of my great disappointments, that Swami never elucidated the Upanishadic truths through discourse or instruction to ashramites.
All the public gets is rehashed Osho jokes and "inspirational spirituality". There is no permanency in the "transformation" produced by the meditation programs / retreats either, because genuine transformation is produced by internalized right understanding.
metaphor creates much more ignorance than it clears away.
Your have an idea that there is ignorance. There is simply nothing. There is neither ignorance nor jnana to work with. Nor can you create it or increase it.
The billboard link:
http://atman.net/guruphiliac/nithy2sm.jpg
Correction: He has never spoken on any of the principal Upanishads, nor the Brahma Sutras. In fact, he has never given public discourses on Advaita Vedanta in any form. Get your facts straight.
Correction: You have not heard the tapes. They are in Tamil! I can get them to you if you like. :)
"Say 'the savior is within' and everyone will canonize you as a savior."
You are mocking Vedanta and all the Enligtened Masters who ever happened including Buddha, Mahavira, Shankara and Ramana Maharishi.
that Swami never elucidated the Upanishadic truths through discourse or instruction to ashramites.
Upanishadic Truths are to be experienced! This is what even the Upanishad says.
You did once and its in your own blog.
There is no permanency in the "transformation" produced by the meditation programs / retreats either
There is no transformation produced by anything as long your attention and focus is on 'What you are doing' as opposed to 'how intensely you are doing it'.
So many people repeat Vedantic verses like parrots. You think they are getting anywhere close to enlightenment? There is no use as long as you are caught up with words. Again the focus is on 'how intensely you do it'.
No two Enlightened Masters became enlightened by the same technique. Buddha became enlightened when he sat after seeing the Veena being tuned. How many people see a stringed instrument getting tuned? If others try it do you think it will work? NOT as long as their focus is on 'what they are doing'
Gnana sambandha just by crying became enlightened. Arunagiri Nathar just by trying to commit suicide! So many people do these actions but not everyone becomes enlightened by it! In fact there is a history of a boy next door trying to go to the same temple tank and crying because his mom told him to. All he got was beatings!
It is not what you do - it is always how intensely you do it. Guru is the person who shows you this by his body language!
http://atman.net/guruphiliac/nithy2sm.jpg
I have already explained on this in my previous posts.
Living enlightenment is a ridiculous concept introduced by Nithyananda for which he charges thousands of dollars. This is not supported by the Upanishads. There is no such thing as living enlightenment.
What do you think Svetaketu did? He 'lived enlightenment'
First understand the meaning of Upanishad and where it comes from. Upanishads are experiences and truths from Enlightened. If there is no upanishad that is already supporting what an Enlightened is expressing, then what the Enlightened expresses itself becomes a new Upanishad. But in this case I don't even have to prove anything or go to any extent. Just Svetaketu is enough for now!
Your total ignorance of Upanishads and Vedas noted!
He is not God to anyone on the street!
He is to his devotees, and likely to others when he's wearing the robes and they know who he is.
it was not Nithyananda who propagated this and whatever the disciples did was removed.
He posed for the picture, so its existence was his doing. The propagation is after that fact.
Do you have a single place where he says it happens because of him?
He allows the devotees to believe it is him. That is his sin.
the absolute can never be put to words like you do.
I am talking around the absolute, although I understand you may not be able to recognize that distinction.
You have also hoisted yourself on the same pedestal and you are doing what you claim Nithyananda to be doing.
Certainly not. I'm just some fool who thinks he knows. I collect no fees, I teach no courses, I perform no miracles.
You enjoy cursing gurus
I've never cursed anyone.
and even more when people complement you for it and have become addicted.
I admit to enjoying it when folks get what I'm getting at.
I have nothing to do with it.
LOL! Then what are you doing here?
Your very desire is just another neurological pattern.
There is nothing that isn't. Whether it's me pissed off at self-aggrandizing gurus like Nithy, or gurus like Nithy enjoying the ride dumbstruck devotees are taking him on.
You are working on the Jagat which will take you nowhere.
I'm not trying to get anywhere, Vivek, other than to have as much fun as possible expressing myself.
He is to his devotees, and likely to others when he's wearing the robes and they know who he is.
He wears different kinds of dress.
He posed for the picture, so its existence was his doing. The propagation is after that fact.
Every elderly person in India blesses their younger ones. You cannot say that if you bless someone then you are propagating that you are God
He allows the devotees to believe it is him. That is his sin.
The only thing he ever does is remove such a notion. You were never a devotee so you will never know it.
I am talking around the absolute, although I understand you may not be able to recognize that distinction.
I totally see your confusion.
I've never cursed anyone.
LOL! Just open your eyes.
Then what are you doing here?
You have an inability to understand it.
Whether it's me pissed off at self-aggrandizing gurus like Nithy, or gurus like Nithy enjoying the ride dumbstruck devotees are taking him on.
Your lack of patience noted!
Jody I always wanted to ask you something...
(1) Are you from India?
(2) Where in India?
please let me know
I'm not from or in India, Rishi.
are u an indian?
ohh jerk? what is that?
anyways... why do you bother everybody? you make critcism of all indians and mock .. this is not good karma.. just get a life..
i wanted to make sure i dont waste time...
earnest request.. dont waste your time.. work on your sadhana.. i dont think any guru would have initiated to go around and waste your time...
first live in india.. know the culture before you condemn..
with this pattern of karma you are staying away from even birth in India the karma Bhoomi.. land of liberation..
get a life you jerk?
Nice passive-aggressive little twist, Rishi.
Also, I only criticize gurus who present themselves, or allow themselves to be presented as more divine than us ordinary folks, your excessively slanted rendering of that to the contrary.
And I have a life, it's to make sure folks know that realization doesn't make you any more divine than you are right now.
hahah.. nice try.. it doesnt justify your negative mental set-up
keep doing this, become life negative
understand all that you write here are mere words and not your experience. You think this is going to help anybody? you are fooling yourself!
it is good thought to save. But you need to have courage and know things as an experience then start your savouir claims! you are doing nothing but cut-paste condemning. Did you realize that?
since you have been busy saving people, you have forgotten whats behind your back
i just came to save you! did i say save you? doesnt that sound stupid? well i thought i could pick up some life goals from you! haha looks pretty stupid to me
anyways have your stupid life. condemn everyone. that really doesnt sound like life to me. Keep fooling yourself.
Correction: You have not heard the tapes. They are in Tamil! I can get them to you if you like. :)
Ah OK. I was refering to English discourses.
"Say 'the savior is within' and everyone will canonize you as a savior."
You are mocking Vedanta and all the Enligtened Masters who ever happened including Buddha, Mahavira, Shankara and Ramana Maharishi.
Oh c'mon. This is exactly the phenomenon happening. Don't YOU, in your heart of hearts, believe he is an Avatar? I know I did. And so did absolutely everyone else I knew. To be honest, I don't know, maybe he is.
You know, Vivek, I think people would find the honesty refreshing if Swami clearly and plainly acknowledged publicly what all devotees believe and express quite openly: that he is an Avatar. There's this dichotomy of what is believed and promoted inside vs what is marketed outside. Look at Mother Meera: She clearly says, "I am an Avatar. This is my role". Straight and to the point, no marketing BS trying to cater to the scientific rational crowd.
Upanishadic Truths are to be experienced! This is what even the Upanishad says.
You did once and its in your own blog.
Ah, so you know my identity. Perhaps we have met? Upanishadic truth about what is Real (Brahman) is beyond experience. A temporary experience of heightened awareness or samadhi is not that, which is why I said, "There is no permanency in the 'transformation' produced...", because like all transient states, they will come and go. Yes, I did rave about "Upanishad" or sitting with the Master on my blog, back when I used to drink the Kool-Aid. It's not that there is zero value in the process. But people "becoming enlightened" is a stretch. Heck I was one of the first "enlightened" ones. I'm not so sure now :)
There is no transformation produced by anything as long your attention and focus is on 'What you are doing' as opposed to 'how intensely you are doing it'.
...
No two Enlightened Masters became enlightened by the same technique. Buddha became enlightened when he sat after seeing the Veena being tuned. How many people see a stringed instrument getting tuned? If others try it do you think it will work? NOT as long as their focus is on 'what they are doing'
Gnana sambandha just by crying became enlightened. Arunagiri Nathar just by trying to commit suicide! So many people do these actions but not everyone becomes enlightened by it! In fact there is a history of a boy next door trying to go to the same temple tank and crying because his mom told him to. All he got was beatings!
It is not what you do - it is always how intensely you do it. Guru is the person who shows you this by his body language!
Please don't rehash Swami's words about legendary "Enlightened Masters" and "body language". How about some unique contribution to this dialogue? BTW, I have more in common with you than you realize, more than I do with jody. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss - I'm not trying to change your mind or anything, because I once was as passionate in my pro-Swami debates here as you are. I know where you're coming from. Devotion is a good thing, more power to you :)
Unfortunately in the ashram - ananda slaveks are Nithyas slaves.
Beware. No one can be a slave when they work out of inspiration. Talk facts.
This does not explain why Nithya still prefers good looking girls to welcome him/serve him
Are you on Opium?
Show me one enlightened community in this world. Even that is a ridiculous concept. Again arises from cult psychology.
Go read Tripura Rahasya the book that Ramana Maharishi himself has recommended. Your total ignorance on spiritual classics noted!
He should look at all with an equal eye.
Your commandments noted!
And doesn't Nithyananda judge people.
Never!
There is no person who comes back
LOL!
THAT is attributeless.
This cannot be told unless you are established in THAT.
Its not that the mind ceases to exist.
It ceases to exist the way we understand. There is a qualitative change.
there is no such thing as living like one or spoofing like one.
Your stupendous confusion on 'Living Enlightenment' noted.
I guess Nithyananda Foundation should do a crash course in Advaita Vedanta before they start teaching others.
I guess Nithy... and you and all other folks misguided by these erroneous teachings should seriously consider reading some basic books on Vedanta so that the right understanding can flower.
Don't worry. Read my previous post and I will ask one of our gurukul kids to teach you some Upanishad.
understand all that you write here are mere words and not your experience.
Funny how people can think they can actually know what's going on in the experience of another.
But whether or not you accept my understanding as genuine, what I'm saying is square with Vedanta.
NIthy is on the godman trip, which in my allegedly uninformed option, is the best way a guru has to instill more ignorance rather than clarity in his/her students.
So, keep being fooled, "Rishi."
Funny how people can think they can actually know what's going on in the experience of another.
[Rishi] Well Mr Einstein.. you are the one who comments on the experiences of the Guru's and their devotees.. ignorance noted!
But whether or not you accept my understanding as genuine, what I'm saying is square with Vedanta.
[Rishi] God saved me.. now i have to learn vedanta from a stupid westerner? first go and be born in india .. we can have this conversation later..
NIthy is on the godman trip, which in my allegedly uninformed option, is the best way a guru has to instill more ignorance rather than clarity in his/her students.
[Rishi] Sure! why dont you come and teach then...if you think he is talking about God.. you must be someone great to comment on God...what a FOOL!
So, keep being fooled, "Rishi."
[Rishi] Thanks for your blessings.. next time when you come to india.. i can take your initiation.
understand all that you write here are mere words and not your experience.
[Rishi] The experience which I had mentioned is as follows. It is very simple.
When you say about any ashram/Guru, have you first been there? seen things that happen? experienced for yourself? unless it is YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.. YOU CANT WRITE OR BLOG! that is all what i say as experience...
i am sure you were deluded with the loaded word "experience".. try thinking simple.. be more practical... get out of your illusions... be more legitimate!
i can take your initiation.
No you can't. You are clearly unsuitable.
have you first been there?
I haven't. But I've communicated with people who've been there, and my original criticism stands. The proximity of the construction to Arunachala is a disgrace to the memory of Ramana even as Nithy capitalizes on that memory. They plowed paradise, and put in a parking lot.
Ah OK. I was refering to English discourses.
[Rishi] why cant you just keep quiet. Doing so what are you gaining? load of headache?
If it is in Tamil or english what difference it makes? why you being a cry baby that you want it all?
Just realx!
Please don't rehash Swami's words about legendary "Enlightened Masters" and "body language". How about some unique contribution to this dialogue?
[Rishi] You said this. Lets keep this as statement 1
Look at Mother Meera: She clearly says, "I am an Avatar. This is my role".
[Rishi] This is statement 2.
Now read both. Dont you see one time you say Nithyananda has to do what others are doing and in the other you want some unique contribution? Shows you are split! you dont know what you type.
you are confused. have some tablet and rest. spirituality is too much for you. why dont you just rest. I see nothing but tremendous greed and dictatorian attitude in your message and you joining with this jerk jody in telling what Gurus should do? save yourself from this load of karma. Even mother Meera, avatar! wont be able to help!
save yourself! eat and rest! life is good!
No you can't. You are clearly unsuitable.
[Rishi] You cant make me cry now! this isnt fair....
i think i wud die in shithole than getting initiated by a westerner like you! jerk? nice name you gave yourself by the way.. i love typing it jerk? remind yourself!
But I've communicated with people who've been there, and my original criticism stands.
[Rishi] I am soo scared now! my whole body is shaking... how should i visualize this?
a westerner who cant clean his ass right commenting and shouting my criticism stands?? wow.. the vedantic texts are going to roar?
everyone is scared....oooooooo
see nothing but tremendous greed and dictatorian attitude in your message
Wow. We are seeing cult psych-ops right before our eyes! Great demo, "Rishi." The amount of vitriol in you ignited by Vikram's post is clearly telling. You have just disgraced your guru, dude. I'd stop right now before you really begin to do some damage to his cause.
Great stuff, dude. Keep it coming. :)
The proximity of the construction to Arunachala is a disgrace to the memory of Ramana even as Nithy capitalizes on that memory.
[Rishi] now you capitalize on criticizing! shame on you!
why dont you comment on the sadhus who shit in arunachala everyday.. awww no one would read this blog then...
shame on the vultures!
Nithy has atleast inspired people and helped public so much.. why cant your source in india say that?
you sit here with your sorry ass talking ill? jerk?
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He shows it by the work done not by plain words. I think it doesn't matter.
Vikram: There's this dichotomy of what is believed and promoted inside vs what is marketed outside.
I don't think so. Its my opinion.
You conveniently didn't answer my question. Let me try again: Do you or do you not believe he is an Avatar?
Hey, even on the gurusfeet website, he has been categorized as an Avatar (Ramana is a mere jnani) by the longterm devotees who created his page . And here you are arguing with jody in defense of Swami saying there is never any promotion of him as Avatar / God incarnate. Such hypocrisy.
Vikram: Perhaps we have met?
Yes :)
Is Vivek a pseudonym? If so, it would be nice if you use your real name, as I have. Don't hide behind an alter ego.
That is because you have an idea about what it means to be enlightened.
Subtle put-down. Nice.
Extending my answer Swami talks about the upanishads in Shiva Sutras, Kathopanishad in LBP etc.
Dude, you're preaching to a former choirboy. LBP contains Kathopanishad? Not as far as I recall. Did Yama teach Nachiketas about chakras and meditations to clean them? And how to overcome sex, worry and attention need? lol..
Please try to understand what I mean in those passages by reading it once more without any frustration. :)
Don't project your ideas about my supposed frustration. And really no need to imply that I somehow didn't grasp the oh-so-subtle layered meaning of your original statement.
I don't really care to debate here, except to point out the lack of congruence in your core beliefs about Swami as God / Guru vis-a-vis your defense here which cleverly and convincingly hides those beliefs.
I have no problem with devotion towards the Guru as God. I still experience that feeling myself on occasion. It is sweet. So, why downplay the God factor by painting Swami to be some regular guy who sits having tea on the Indian roadside with random people? You very well know those villagers too regard Swami as God, despite your flimsy defenses "he wears regular clothes" and "He is not God to anyone on the street!". Not very convincing.
The single most dominant feeling that inspired most everyone (including me, once upon a time) to join the mission is the conviction that he is an Avatar, like Krishna or Shiva. Why not come out and be honest about your devotion, rather than create this smokescreen?
One last thing: I know jody loves to create provocative blog copy and headlines. I don't necessarily like this approach, but it's his style. No amount of crafting elaborate responses and defenses is going to get him or other commentators here to change their minds. So I suggest you give it a rest.
You conveniently didn't answer my question. Let me try again: Do you or do you not believe he is an Avatar?
I don't believe him to be anything. I see him as he is as opposed your grandiose imaginations in your fantasy land about him. Thats why when he didn't fit in your frame you ran away.
Hey, even on the gurusfeet website, he has been categorized as an Avatar (Ramana is a mere jnani) by the longterm devotees who created his page .
Thats nice to hear. Kudos!
I think people would find the honesty refreshing if Swami clearly and plainly acknowledged publicly what all devotees believe
And here you are arguing with jody in defense of Swami saying there is never any promotion of him as Avatar / God incarnate. Such hypocrisy.
Read the two statements you made. I'm talking about Swami himself stating by words as opposed to devotees promoting him as an Avatar.
Your inability to read even plain English noted!
Is Vivek a pseudonym? If so, it would be nice if you use your real name, as I have. Don't hide behind an alter ego.
This is the tip of the iceberg. I thought you don't have intelligence now you have proved you don't have memory either. Don't dare ever talk to me like that again. Go hit yourself against the wall 108 times and you will remember!
Dude, you're preaching to a former choirboy. LBP contains Kathopanishad? Not as far as I recall.
Yes. You were too busy thinking about 'jerk' Jody (as he calls himself) on how to criticize gurus that you lost track of what was being told in the class.
Did Yama teach Nachiketas about chakras and meditations to clean them? And how to overcome sex, worry and attention need? lol..
It is the other way around. You can use what Yama told Nachiketas to work with your chakras.
You very well know those villagers too regard Swami as God, despite your flimsy defenses "he wears regular clothes" and "He is not God to anyone on the street!". Not very convincing.
You have yet again proved your narrow vision. I'm talking about the whole world and you are talking of just Tamil Nadu. What a loser!
The single most dominant feeling that inspired most everyone (including me, once upon a time) to join the mission is the conviction that he is an Avatar, like Krishna or Shiva.
Yes. You thought 'Its a winning horse. Why not bet on it? and have a go at all the winnings.' When you had a doubt you ran away.
Why not come out and be honest about your devotion, rather than create this smokescreen?
I'm honest and that's why I get to have Swami as my Guru.
One last thing: I know jody loves to create provocative blog copy and headlines. I don't necessarily like this approach, but it's his style. No amount of crafting elaborate responses and defenses is going to get him or other commentators here to change their minds. So I suggest you give it a rest.
Your guidance vis-a-vis commandments noted.
Go hit yourself against the wall 108 times and you will remember!
Man, you are one piece of work. A masterpiece of assholery. You do your guru proud, boy, and are a ringing endorsement of why exactly one should not follow Nithy.
Man, you are one piece of work. A masterpiece of assholery.
Yes I forgot the titles you gave yourself. Aahh. 'Jerk'? and what else? 'Fool'? Listen I'm not saying them you yourself gave them to you. Your Guru will be so proud you? Won't he? Take a wild guess.
Anyone who reads your blog would know that you are a foolish self aggrandizing jerk. You didn't have to waste time to tell it to others.
They are good in content sometimes but are also a marketing effort to attract more volunteers, ashramites etc.
The term volunteer itself means that they make a choice to help. Obviously any volunteering is highly appreciated by all non-profit organizations.
Programs are like a drug which gives some temporary euphoria. Then this needs to be renewed periodically. In Nithyananda foundation, even enlightenment has to be renewed. What a predicament?
Though you may not have the same level of euphoria for a long time definitely your level of clarity and maturity increases which in time becomes permanent. And no you can't renew enlightenment anywhere because it never leaves you. Where did you get that one?
Please list some development projects apart from building your own ashrams. We would be happy to know that some good also happens through such organizations.
You can see some of my previous posts.
I agree that a person has to fill his stomach first before approaching God but that does not mean that a middle class person should not practice spirituality.
Spirituality is for everyone.
Only SADHANA can lead to enlightenment. Not programs. If a program compels a program to continue his/her sadhana, then its good. If programs are meant for making people mission robots - then its a BLASPHEMY.
One small correction: The grace of the Guru leads to enlightenment. Sadhana can lead to Guru's grace if it is intense enough.
Since general consensus is that Nithyananda falls in that list
Don't make some random statements. Prove it factually if you can.
No doubt, promote the teachings but for Gods sake don't charge a premium for that.
Please read my previous posts.
Dude, you're preaching to a former choirboy. LBP contains Kathopanishad? Not as far as I recall.
[Fact] This is part of fear session.
I have no problem with devotion towards the Guru as God. I still experience that feeling myself on occasion. It is sweet.
[Fact] This shows devotion. Did that experience ask you first if you knew he was avatar etc? Or was the experience prior to the knowledge? Maybe you dont need to "know" God to have "devotion"?
point to be pondered
So, why downplay the God factor by painting Swami to be some regular guy who sits having tea on the Indian roadside with random people?
[Fact] God cannot be simple? is that downplay? ponder
The single most dominant feeling that inspired most everyone (including me, once upon a time) to join the mission is the conviction that he is an Avatar, like Krishna or Shiva.
[Fact] What made you think he is? What made you think he is not? What changed? Was it external or internal?
Can you list the items which one should fulfill so that you can recognize that person as Avatar?
Where did you get this list from? On what basis are you giving this list? Please quote absolute facts. If you have "ideas" or "opinions" it is okay, I do not want to spend time debating that. It is personal so I cannot argue on that one.
Given you have generalized. It is better you give facts based on Vedanta/Sruthi etc
One last thing: I know jody loves to create provocative blog copy and headlines. I don't necessarily like this approach, but it's his style. No amount of crafting elaborate responses and defenses is going to get him or other commentators here to change their minds. So I suggest you give it a rest.
[Fact] You are right. Point noted. This approach isnt the way.
Vikram has made an important point we need to look at again. Nithyananda is clearly complicit in the idea of his avatardhood. Were he to be proclaimed an avatar in the States, he would only get crazies for customers, so they keep it on the down low over here. Let Swami Nithyananda come forward and tell us himself whether he is an avatar or not. If he says he is not and settles the matter once and for all, in a manner that is convincing, I will remove all the posts about him.
Though you may not have the same level of euphoria for a long time definitely your level of clarity and maturity increases which in time becomes permanent.
The euphoria associated with spiritual experience is a neurological response, not enlightenment itself. I have a few doubts about the "increasing maturity" model of self-realization as well. First of all, it is not supported by the Upanishads. And looked at a different way, it makes perfect business sense to propose such a model. You tell them you have given them enlightenment, then you sell them a "development" program for that enlightenment.
Nithy is clearly taking his cues from the same lessons of big-time gurudom that Kalki Bhagavan and Sri Sri use.
I have a few doubts about the "increasing maturity" model of self-realization as well. First of all, it is not supported by the Upanishads.
Please read the Taittiriya Upanishad. In that the clarity increases step by step in the discussion between Bhrigu and Varuna after several steps!
it makes perfect business sense to propose such a model.
This is again your wishful thinking.
Please read the Taittiriya Upanishad.
Thanks for that reference.
This is again your wishful thinking.
Here is my wishful thinking: that Nithyananda tell us himself, does he, or does he not believe he is an avatar.
In that the clarity increases step by step
As I understand the concept, unless the ahamkara is broken, you are not dealing with jnana (self-realization.)
I am now closing these comments until Nithyananda confesses his belief about his own avatarhood.
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