Wednesday, November 22, 2006

Flip-Flopping For Nithyananda

File under: Real True Gurus

Our friend Antarananda has put up with a good deal of crap from us. But rather than taking offense, he comes back with exactly why he's sticking with his guru... and to be perfectly honest, we don't blame him one bit. Here's the latest evidence that Swami Nithyananda may be a bit better than your average human divinity:
The idea of Guru and disciple is only a psychodrama. There is no specialty about the Guru nor is there anything less in the disciple. The fellow who understands he is playing a drama becomes God. Those who don't understand are stuck in one role or the other. Just because someone is a disciple, it is not that he cannot grow spiritually more than the Guru and that the Guru is always spiritually more qualified than the disciple. If the Guru is stuck in his role, he will be lower than the disciple who has not understood that he is playing a psychodrama. I have understood that I am playing a drama and so I am God. You have not understood that you are playing a drama and so you are not God.

All of us come from the same dimension. We are therefore the same. When we are born, our mind acts as a barrier in knowing what our source is; it fragments us between who we are and what our origin is. We are here for a purpose and get attached to that purpose, while forgetting what we are. The actor becomes the character and forgets who he really is. That is the psycho drama. The disciple can be the Guru if he realizes that he can be the Guru. The Master realizes that and is therefore the Master. The Master can therefore become a perfect disciple as well. The opaque glass that fragments us is Maya, and ego, ahankara. Our mental attitudes, vasana and samskara are what make us who we are, the characters we play in the drama.

So long as we are in touch with the original memory of who we are, we are above the attachment in this drama. We are clear we are playing a role and can drop that role. We are then man, god and Guru all rolled into one.

The only block to our awareness is this illusion, Maya. We are not aware we are playing a role in a drama. We are not in control.

Q) 'You spoke about psycho drama…'

A) 'All miracles that happen around me are because you expect them to happen. If I am really a Master every one should always feel I am a Master; that's not so. When I am traveling overseas, especially in the USA, the immigration officials treat me like a form of low life, not a Master at all. To them, I am no one special.

Your expectations are fulfilled through me, because you feel I am your Master. There is no Master, no disciple. It's all pure energy. One who understands that all this is drama is God. Otherwise you are trapped as a Guru or disciple; as disciple you are only cheating yourself; as a Guru, you are cheating others. You are committing murder; and are socially and politically dangerous.

He who wants to fulfill ego becomes a Guru. If you want to postpone enlightenment, you become a seeker, a disciple. A real seeker straight away sees this drama and is awakened.'

Q) 'How?'

A) 'You break away by understanding. If you ask how, you declare yourself to be a fool. You don't have to accept yourself as a fool. Just accept yourself. Awaken.

Only when you understand that it's all a psychodrama will you have respect for me, real love for me, gratitude towards me; till then it is hypocrisy. I do not believe any one who respects me without any benefit. I am frightened of such people. I do not believe people who believe me right away. I would rather they do not believe me By believing me no one is doing me a favor. They just want me to be responsible. They call me god; after a few days they will dethrone me.

Only when you understand this drama will you be liberated and have Guru Bhakti (the Divine Master-disciple relationship); all other belief that I am superior to you is nonsense. It's your projection; you are creating that drama. You and I are one and the same.

I have all the problems that you have; whatever makes you feel unenlightened; your greed, lust, fear, anger, pain etc. I have ALL in capital letters. The only difference is that I have accepted all of them. You have not. I do not think they are problems. I am not bothered. In cases where I have not accepted, I have accepted that I cannot accept. Liberate yourself from the Guru; only then Guru bhakti can happen.
This is exactly what we'd like to see all gurus do, deconstruct their own mystique as it condenses in the minds of their devotees, as it happens. If he could only lose the "presence" shtick as well.

He may be "that guy who looks like a prop at a convention in Vegas," according to one commenter, but regardless of his somewhat cliché fashion preferences, we sincerely hope he's one space-daddy who will finally break people of their space-daddy habits.

18 Comments:

At 11/22/2006 5:36 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why would anyone want a guru they could never know as a person, never really spend any time with but only see up on a throne or passing by in a line?

 
At 11/22/2006 5:53 PM, Blogger jody said...

Why would anyone want a guru they could never know as a person, never really spend any time with but only see up on a throne or passing by in a line?

Because they want to pretend they're standing in the same room as God rather than coming to understand there is no room that exists where God is not.

 
At 11/22/2006 8:01 PM, Blogger facedog said...

I think you're right, Jody. Lots of people prefer the perfection of their own imaginations rather than the imperfect human teacher. This "no room where God is not" is a terrifying place for the casual observer.

Like Antarananda, I would not give up my Guru. But I would never choose to have a teacher I could only know from afar. In that case why not just read a good book.

 
At 11/22/2006 9:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

To anonymous:

The Guru is a principle, expressed through the enlightened one. You could spend all your life serving your Guru and spending time with him in an ashram, yet remain as immersed in ignorance as before, and possibly enter into an unhealthy co-dependent relationship.

While it is very useful to have a close rapport with your Guru (and I am lucky to have such rapport), it is not essential; what matters is coming to the realization that the physical Guru is a concept - the sooner the better.

The verbal guidance and instructions coming from your Guru are less important than your opening to grace or Existence or Parashakti. Paramahamsa Satyananda said it nicely, "living with the guru does not mean living in his room. If you live with a guru, it means you live with him spiritually. When I lived in Rishikesh with my guru, I seldom met him, but still, every moment I was living for him and with him... from dawn to dusk, in every action I performed, I felt my guru was there. You know how, if you love someone, he lives in you and you live in him; well, this is the situation between guru and disciple."

When you are connected from the heart with a Guru who you can only see from afar, that can still catalyze something deep; hearing the expression of Vedantic truths in person can pull the rug of pseudo-spiritual complacency from under your feet, so to speak, and give a solid experience of Reality.

 
At 11/22/2006 10:17 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

>>>When I am traveling overseas, especially in the USA, the immigration officials treat me like a form of low life, not a Master at all. To them, I am no one special>>>

Well ,Swami Ramdas could see God manifested in everybody He met, not only in those who were friendly but "also in the ticket collector who ejected Him from a train and the bullying policeman eho warned Him on the icy platform. When a Sadhu gave Him a drinking vessel and another stole it, He cheerfully remarked that Ram in one form had given it and in another had taken it away again".

 
At 11/23/2006 1:42 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You're missing the point completely. How quotes get misinterpreted! Boggles my mind...

 
At 11/23/2006 9:14 AM, Blogger facedog said...

Dear Antarananda,

I resonate with everything you have said but I wonder if you would be able to have this depth of understanding without years of previous practice and without having at least for a time the close rapport you have with your Guru, for whom I have respect because you do.

Would people hearing about Nithyananda, and going to see him in a meeting hall be able to have the same experience and inner rapport as you do? Or would they manufacture a psychodrama and be in it for years?

 
At 11/23/2006 3:21 PM, Anonymous Wendy said...

This Q & A with Nithyananda is quite refreshing! Although it remains hard to reconcile the candor with his outre sartorial splendor. Meanwhile, I don't think that simply no longer projecting guru-dom upon a person necessarily indicates you've awakened altogether, even though it does suggest a valuable freedom from a particularly strong collective dream. But once that's happened, perhaps you're on your way...?

 
At 11/23/2006 8:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Facedog said:

I resonate with everything you have said but I wonder if you would be able to have this depth of understanding without years of previous practice and without having at least for a time the close rapport you have with your Guru, for whom I have respect because you do.


Sure, everything I have been exposed to has been cumulative in helping my growth as a sadhaka, and in bringing me to this point. Also, I am fortunate that I came to be closely associated with Swamiji - the personal interaction greatly helped. And I must say here, that whatever "occlusive" ideas I entertained before I met Nithyananda were rapidly cleared from my head somehow after I was initiated by him. I have seen other fellow seekers gain tremendous clarity in their own understanding as well.That must be what they call grace, Guru kripa.

Would people hearing about Nithyananda, and going to see him in a meeting hall be able to have the same experience and inner rapport as you do? Or would they manufacture a psychodrama and be in it for years?

I guess it's not much different than the millions who worship Ramana or Ramakrishna or Jesus, and consider them to be their Guru.

I cannot speak for other Gurus with large satsangs, but Nithyananda initiates thousands of people personally on a regular basis, and that diksha, he has said, establishes a proper Guru-shishya connection. The meditation practice we follow allows the connection to happen without time-space constraints.


Wendy said:

I don't think that simply no longer projecting guru-dom upon a person necessarily indicates you've awakened altogether, even though it does suggest a valuable freedom from a particularly strong collective dream.


I agree. It's important to not throw the baby out with the bathwater =) There are far too many neophytes declaring their enlightenment prematurely (and even assuming the Guru mantle themselves). I'm of the old school belief that you must stick it out with the Guru until you are fit to call yourself liberated.

 
At 11/24/2006 6:06 PM, Blogger TheBlade said...

Nithyananda said:

I have all the problems that you have; whatever makes you feel unenlightened; your greed, lust, fear, anger, pain etc. I have ALL in capital letters


I don't know much about Nithyananda and I can't express any informed opinion. Except that this particular stuff is strongly de-mythologizing and it is good and rare to see.

It's much more common to see what is mere 'official' repudiation of the mythology ('you must not put me up on a/(this here darn comfortable, thankyou) pedestal') while lots of room is left for the mythologization to flourish.

Of course, that particular piece doesn't by itself in isolation say to me how how true Nithyananda is to cultivation of a good, mature guru-disciple relationship. Only the big picture of his 'guru life' says that, and I know nothing of it, because being able to talk the talk on anything doesn't mean being able to walk the walk. Adi Da can actually talk insightfully at times about what is a pathological guru-disciple relationship, and what is a more mature one.

However, this particular piece is a moment of great clarity and honesty, and if it is a sustained part of what he presents, it bodes very well.

 
At 11/24/2006 7:10 PM, Blogger facedog said...

"And I must say here, that whatever "occlusive" ideas I entertained before I met Nithyananda were rapidly cleared from my head somehow after I was initiated by him."

Thanks,Antarananda, this has also been what I have experienced with my Guru, although he does not have a large following. I do believe with Jody that all the hoopla surrounding big name Gurus, including the "occlusive ideas" are unattractive tools for drawing a crowd and building donations.

There is a cultural element that I no longer enjoy but like you I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water. I have enjoyed your perspective.

 
At 12/07/2006 3:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So much controversy over Nithyananda.

I've come to the conclusion that it is pretty much ridiculous to judge the guru without being his disciple yourself.

Our own personal transformation can be the only judge of the 'power' of the guru.

There is no such thing as a guru.

It's only a path. It's a path to drop the goal, and enjoy.

Even judging a guru by our own personal experience is also not necessarily rational. We have our own blockages that do not allow us to receive the guru's teachings.

Of course, our inner intelligence is the ultimate guru.

Maybe we just need someone to show us the way to that light.

I've worked on myself 'on my own' for so many years, reading and reading and reading enough books to get bored of the words "brahman, advaita, nirguna, the present moment, blah blah blah". Of course the very act of 'me' reading a word 'advaita' is so silly. Has no real spiritual meaning. How can a word describe anything? And of course there is the whole 'dualism' of the subject "me" reading the object- the word "advaita". As soon as the word 'advaita' is converted to some sort of mental image... you can be sure its real meaning is lost. I know you all know...

... After different masters who all showed so much knowledge and transmitted so much energy...

It was Swamiji (Nithyananda), who finally transformed my very being.

I cannot describe the transformation in my life, my health, and "my" spiritual journey.

It's laughable to see some of these snide comments on Swamiji.

Enjoy making fun of the clothes, and other details. It matters not, really.

I don't know why I even am responding. But it is happening I must admit. :0

Can't help but defend Swamiji I guess. . . pretty unnecessary, but hey, I'm not ego-less yet :)

The pure silence that happened in me during my hours with Swamiji, which have spilled over into my daily life is so much proof. Words can never explain!

How can this debate have any relevance? Can the taste of an apple be described? Can a subtle shade of color be communicated through words? Can energy be described in a sentence?

Swamiji creates silence.

Well, maybe not.... considering the magnitude of B.S. he's been creating on this website!

I guess it comes down to this... we get pissed with the guru concept when we see devotees/disciples fawning over these people. We hardly ever come in contact or hear from those who are really getting in touch with their 'pure' spirituality through these masters, because these people usually become silent.

Sure there are going to be some eccentric followers who don't 'get it'... Doesn't mean the guru isn't qualified.

All that matters is personal transformation. Who cares about the paparazzi and the celebrity aspect. We try to bring the guru down by thinking that they are somehow involved in this 'celebrity'. We just bring our own path down through all this bashing. Relax. Enjoy.

Peace...

-Anand

 
At 12/19/2006 8:06 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Now Nithya ananda healing energy is on sale in LA Ashram. To sponsor a shiva linga it costs you $ 2500/- . To install a cost shiva linga it does n't cost more than $ 100/-. It looks like that remainder $2400/- cost is for Nithya ananda healing energy.

 
At 4/10/2007 4:07 AM, Anonymous selfenquiry said...

"Guru" is the consciousness itself.When we observe deeply, we could find out that whoever says whatever so, we ultimately decide whatever we percieve as right or wrong. And the difficulty here is to rightly evaluate the right decision and wrong decision which are important as it helps us to develop ourselves in the right evolution, which inturn develops pureness of mind, then ultimately liberation.If the guru's statement is in par with our perception we consider. Until, we are not able to follow a right direction, which I mean the direction which leads to an evolution by one's own consciousness, you require a physical "GURU" to help you to uplift your direction. But at a later stage it is necessary to raise the individual consciousness. This anyone can do only by meditation of self enquiry and not by any other means of meditation.All other forms of meditation may prepare the body and mind for meditation but it could not be the right method of evolution. Secondly a physical GURU cannot teach you what is right and what is wrong. His job is just to help you with a method/technique whereby you realize the real guru and then you yourself decide what is right and what is wrong? Any guru who directly says or indirectly influences to follwo him will never be a true GURU.

Do a proper meditation method and then you will come to know what is right and what is wrong.

 
At 8/12/2007 3:23 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nithyananda is a shame to hinduism, guarantees enlightment if
1. u could give 10% of ur gross pay
2. if u could give your children to work in his ashram
Never reveals the evil face initially, but sounds very benign as if he has come only to give us mukti.
Once u entirely trust hom and put faith in him, he starts talking a different language. He himself says the way he taks to his disciple would be different from his devotee.
He said ( I am a witness) "U have 2 children , give 1 to me. OK, if u want to have 2, u are 40 now, have one more and give that child for me". He mesmerises teh beleivers ., turns youngsters to talk against parents, become totally disobedient, the child who had been an angel all these days, goes into a spell and wants to run away to his ashram. No reasoning will convincw them. Have u ever come across a guru who will play with the emotions and trust of a teenager, to wreck their studies and career and disown his/her parents to go and work in his ashram. His mission is clear, to entice NRIs & foreigners with the trendy stuff like meditation (which is so sacred ) for his own fame and mission of starting many centers. His lectures are "RECRUITMENT CENTERS". Parents beware of ur kids going there, u have turned ur angel children into a satan because ogf this evil monster, my experience. If children join a sai Baba sessions, we can be sure of the child becoming good, disciplined, study well and acheive success and also get enlightened by fair means. But this guru, wrecks families, seperates husband from wife or vice versa, seperates children from parents, all be deceit and encourages people to do so by deceit - his lectures are clear examples.
SO PARENTS< BROTHERS & SISTERS & CHILDREN,
beware of this evil guru who is interested in ruining the future & family of people who trust him, just to work in his ashrams.
A shame to other divine gurus of hinduism/any religion.
I pray to God that my kid would come out of the clutches of theis evil being. At this point I am so broken, I want others to take care. In hindusism, any fairness, we get mukti by our own good and bad deeds, not by taking bath in ganges with him, following him, etc.
GOd save the people who trust this evil.

 
At 8/12/2007 6:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

These are mere brainwashing sessions. we don't get to see arunachala after one session. If I am brainwashed to see BIn laden I could see him too. Sheer brainwashing & seeing God is no quick guaranteed solution. Even divine methods like Meditation will be exploited by such people to brainwash to make people believe he is God, of course with the catchy slogan" I am not here to prove that I am God, but u r". SO by this he has already sown the seed in the gullible mind that he IS god. Hey Gurus, please don't explot meditation & hinduism for ur own benefits & fame & money.
It’s high time this guru mends his ways and first follow fair means and teach spiritualism to reach God & not unfair unethical gimmicks. Hinduism has to be saved from such ??? enlightened masters.

 
At 8/12/2007 6:24 PM, Blogger satya_gnana said...

These are mere brainwashing sessions. we don't get to see arunachala after one session. If I am brainwashed to see BIn laden I could see him too. Sheer brainwashing & seeing God is no quick guaranteed solution. Even divine methods like Meditation will be exploited by such people to brainwash to make people believe he is God, of course with the catchy slogan" I am not here to prove that I am God, but u r". SO by this he has already sown the seed in the gullible mind that he IS god. Hey Gurus, please don't exploit meditation & hinduism for ur own benefits & fame & money.
It’s high time this guru mends his ways and first follow fair means and teach spiritualism to reach God & not unfair unethical gimmicks. Hinduism has to be saved from such ??? enlightened masters.

 
At 10/10/2007 10:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

jypuqaA guru teaches you to wade through turbulent waters and attain enlightenment yourself. He teaches you to overcome desires and break-free from the material world. That is not really easy. You will have a really tough time once you start on that path. A guru makes it easier for you as he guides you along the right path. I remember Sri Nity (as you call him) had recently said "I have not come here to give discourses, conduct healing sessions and classes. I am born for the purpose of imparting Gnana to this world." Anyway, this is MTV era and it is really tough for any Guru to take on this world. People only believe when anything is marketed. I do not blame Sri Nity for it. He really has a tough time ahead. I am sure he will prove his mettle to this world. A guru is a person who deserves more respect than God. If any guru says he is God, then it means he is degrading himself. I do not think any real guru will degrade himself thus. It is said "Guru Brahma, Guru Vishnu, Guru Devo Maheshwara- Guru Sakshat Para Brahma Thasmaishree Guruve Namaha". These words often repeated by us itself speaks everything.

 

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