Vedic Geeks Invade Iowa
File under: Satscams and The Siddhi of PR
Other parts of the U.S. may be pooping on him, but they still love them some Maharishi in Fairfield, Iowa. He's been spending boatloads of cash to rebuild buildings there to his own petty, obsessive-compulsive standards. And now he's sending over his Vedic geek squads from India in droves in an effort to jump-start his eponymous "Effect" and finally bring the peace he's been bragging about all these years. [Ed.note: Guess who's not going to be holding their breath waiting for the effect of the "Effect."]
The insane little man isn't all that crazy, though. He's scamming the U.S. government for low-income housing credits to provide shelter for the influx of Indians:
Should the low-income housing grants through the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the Iowa Finance Authority come through, dwellings ranging from one-bedroom to three-bedroom homes and apartments will be available for $450 to $550 a month, said Kent Boyum, director of economic development for Maharishi Vedic City.We've got to tip our turban to the Maharishi's crumbling mind for having it together enough to flimflam a government subsidy for his crumbling dreams. No wonder he's been so successful. The man is obviously a master... conman, that is.
posted by guruphiliac @ 3:24 PM
57 Comments:
How does maharishi cook up such schemes day after day and keep the TM freaks and US govt and Guruphiliac busy ?
Are they his own or there are people behind who drive him ?
He planned the world's tallest meditation tower in india and would not know whatever happened to it ?
i would have loved to smoke my pot up there !!!
Sounds to me in this case like the government is the one doing the gouging. I asked a friend in Iowa USA (who is an ex-TMer) about rents in Fairfield, where the Maharishi's main place is, and basically, 450-500 is lots of money in those parts. You can buy a house for $60,000 USD in Fairfield Iowa and it won't be a dump, I've been told.
Jody, have you ever been to India? If not, please go and experience the sublime atmosphere in places where Veda is chanted daily and properly by larger numbers of pundits. The pundits themselves are ordinary, but their mastery of the texts, acquired generally from the age of 3 or 4, is extraordinary indeed. And the effect you feel is remarkable. I don't venture to say why it should happen, but there is definitely a link between the sanskrit mantras being chanted and feelings of peace and harmony. Whether or not these same things can happen with a small group in a short time in Fairfield Iowa, I don't know. But India, for all her warts, is evidence of just what thousands of years of chanting can do. You may poo-poo that, and say it's a figment of the imagination, but I disagree with all people who say this. Indians who go abroad to work often immediately notice that they cannot sleep in Europe or the USA. The work is the same, but even after months, they don't adjust. They "don't feel good". And I don't believe it to be simple homesickness. There is something in the Akasha in India that definitely helps with well-being of the people.
In the case of Vedic chanting, I'd have to say "don't knock it till you've tried it".
please go and experience the sublime atmosphere in places where Veda is chanted daily and properly by larger numbers of pundits.
Any place's "vibe" can be romanticized to feel "sublime". You are bringing your own peace and projecting it by way of your expectations.
Anon said
In the case of Vedic chanting, I'd have to say "don't knock it till you've tried it".
jody said...
Any place's "vibe" can be romanticized to feel "sublime". You are bringing your own peace and projecting it by way of your expectations.
........................
I'd have to strongly agree with both of you.
semblance said: i would have loved to smoke my pot up there !!!
Maybe that's the new use all of those peace palaces should be put to. If i smoked pot, I would join you.
Heck, I would start smoking pot if I were given the opportunity to spend a few days atop the world's largest mediatation tower.
Anonymous said...
> please go and experience the
> sublime atmosphere in places
> where Veda is chanted daily and
> properly by larger numbers of
> pundits.
If you like Vedic chanting, then you find such a place "sublime." If you hate Vedic chanting, then you find such a place "nauseating." It's got nothing to do with the "atmosphere," and everything to do with personal preference.
> And the effect you feel is
> remarkable.
You know what *you* feel; you only pretend to know what anyone else feels.
> there is definitely a link
> between the sanskrit mantras
> being chanted and feelings of
> peace and harmony.
But you're leaving out a key part of the equation! If you like Sanskrit mantras, THEN you get these nice feelings when you here them. If you prefer, for instance, rock music, then you get nice feelings when you listen to that.
It's not rocket science.
Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
It's not rocket science.
And in one fell swoop Stuart deconstructs the entire rationale of the TM™ org.
DURGA said
Heck, I would start smoking pot if I were given the opportunity to spend a few days atop the world's largest mediatation tower.
~~~ yes you said it !
Cant figure whats the big fuss about the spiritual transformation the TM bunch is trying around the world. I feel a lot more sacred and auscpicious everytime i light up a smoke ! It may add to the high if it is on top of the worlds tallest tower !!
Ofcourse i will drop the leftovers in the pipe from the top to the bottom for chuck's personal use !
semblance said: Ofcourse i will drop the leftovers in the pipe from the top to the bottom for chuck's personal use !
Chuck, would you like to join our metaphorical pot smoking journey on top of TM's peace palace?
durga said...
Chuck, would you like to join our metaphorical pot smoking journey on top of TM's peace palace?
........................
If I did I'd have to have my own pipe cause I'm pretty sure where semblance s and orchestra's pipe has been and where he/she keeps it when not in use.
jody said...
It's not rocket science.
And in one fell swoop Stuart deconstructs the entire rationale of the TM™ org.
.....................
I can certainly see where you and Stuart are coming from and why you see it this way, but I think you may be wrong this time. Lots of mantras have been tested for their beneficial effects on the body/mind, not just the TM bhija mantras. I'm not crazy about hearing Vedic chanting but the effect on me is still very nice.
pig stye said...
> Lots of mantras have been tested
> for their beneficial effects on
> the body/mind, not just the TM
> bhija mantras.
So the words don't matter, you can repeat "Cocacola" instead of Vedic chants, or a mantra purchased from TM, right?
Anyway, what you're saying is that the practice of focusing on a word or a sound affects *people*. That's an entirely different matter from the claims of TM and anonymous that particular words affect the *environment*. Because...
> I'm not crazy about hearing
> Vedic chanting but the effect on
> me is still very nice.
But you're still talking about the affect of *hearing* chanting. That doesn't mean it affects the environment. What if someone was doing Vedic chanting down the street, such that you couldn't hear it, and didn't know it was happening. Would the effect still be very nice? That's the assertion that TM makes.
Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
But I've got a friend who say the TM mantras don't just have a "nice effect". He actually claims to experience God consciousness. I don't mean just in the "I am that" advaita sense, but in the big sense, like being The Creator Of All That Is.
His life doesn't seem to show it, but he is really into it.
He actually claims to experience God consciousness.
God consciousness cannot be experienced.
durga said...
Chuck, would you like to join our metaphorical pot smoking journey on top of TM's peace palace
~~~~ Durga!! you almost sounded there like AOL PR band? How come this unique AOL trait of scouting people is found in you too? You disappoint me durga ! Out here you survive on your own. This seeking support system is where the gurus and ashrams have found their vantage point., Truth is never borrowed or found in an orgy ! But all by yourself !
This thought may lead chuck to some rerun masturbatory fantasies of his childhood, but thats ok !
CHUck said
I'm pretty sure where semblance s and orchestra's pipe has been and where he/she keeps it when not in use.
~~~~~ he/she??? Chuck you have been enchanted with my butt crack for so long that you did not know my gender. I suggest you could now shift to the front from the back and AHOY ! you will sure bump into my malemeat ! I would not mind you spend some time there too !!
Chuck !!!! Jokes apart, as much you have been obsessed with the butt cracks, i have been obsessed with my golden himalayan weeds. so its ok !
Oops that reminds me i need to... huh get another one rolled right away!
Chuck ! happy and slurpy times to you ahead !
is nice to read stuart comments, thanks!
but I have a doubt. Dr. Masaru Emoto has proved that words have actually an effect in matter, he proved it with the water crystal pictures, and anyone can see it in his book.
There u can actually see the difference between the different vibration of different words.
Please Stuart, throw some light on that.
lol @ semblance..
Hello semblance. you dont know ABOUT THE GREATNESS OF CHUCK.
He is a dragonic asshole who is obsessive and incest about most things unspelt or unheard in life.
That makes him someone very unique among all the people who visit here. Dont say anything insulting about him because that will fetch some bad karma to you !
Stuart is right, it is a matter of personal preference whether one prefers to hang out with gang bangers and listen to their language or sit and listen to Vedic chanting. I prefer the latter. All sounds affect the human nervous system. And all actions and sounds leave an "imprint" in the subtle ether (akasha) after those actions/sounds have happened. So, Jody, I disgree, this time, that it is my projection of peace that makes me feel that India has a subtle sublime atmosphere. You are right, some people will feel that Vedic mantras/chanting/puja is a load of nauseating s**t. But some of that might be due to the fact that when first heard, those mantras tend to dredge up all the past garbage out of a person's mind and heart and begin dissolving it. For this reason, even Ramana Maharishi recommended mantra practice to some pupils -- because they were full of crap, and needed their minds purfied before they could at all hear what he was saying to them. And for some people even Nisargadatta recommended bhajans (!) for the same reasons. It has to do with the level of the person's state of mind. I have yet to meet an enlightened person (supposed, I guess) of any nationality who hated vedic chanting or hearing bhajan when sang nicely, regardless of their language.
Why is it so impossible to think that you are not seeing everything? That there might be subtle realms that you are possible unaware of? Of course, ultimately, it makes no difference at all. But when still in a human body, why not be comfortable?
It is true that several famous saints of India were murderers, thieves, and even idiots. But once enlightened, that behavior changed. I once asked an Indian saint if an enlightened person could commit murder. He said "anything is possible in this world, of course, but I have never heard of such a case, or anything like it." He went on to say something like the person changes when enlightened, although many preferences remain the same, violent ones seem to fall away.
So yeah, some people might prefer rap music over chanting. "I'm gonna shoot yo momma, I'm gonna shoot yo momma, I'm gonna shoot yo momma........." may be their preference and they can't see why anyone on earth in their right mind would listen to this "Vedic motherfu**ing Sh*t", but I'd suspect they would not spend much time at this message board. If they do, then I'm definitely posting in the wrong place.
In all this debate about "sublime" qualities of vedic chanting, we forgot to ask one very basic question: Do TM-ers really know how to chant veda?
The best I have heard from TM-ers is some repeated "hum", "shum", "hrim" etc. and a few elemetary Sanskrit shlokas -- never a proper vedic chanting.
Semblance said" You disappoint me durga !
It was just a joke, semblance. I'm not much in a serious mood this week. I don't know who the AOL band is.
To say something serious, though, I agree with anon's comment: " All sounds affect the human nervous system. And all actions and sounds leave an "imprint" in the subtle ether (akasha) after those actions/sounds have happened".
I have had the experience of profound peace in certain places and do think it's because actions leave a "subtle imprint in the ether". That fact seems obvious to me. Some people may be more sensitive to it than others.
ANONYMOUS SAID
Hello semblance. you dont know ABOUT THE GREATNESS OF CHUCK.
He is a dragonic asshole who is obsessive and incest about most things unspelt or unheard in life.
~~~ hELL O ANONYMOUS !
i think you need not poke your scummy nose in to this? Its between me and my buddy chuck.
We fight but we love each other that much. So keep your twat outta here !
It's not TMers that are doing the chanting. It's legitimate young pandits who've trained in the Vedas since they were little. And the Rudrabhishekham isn't just some random chanting of "gibberish" - it's actually a very well-known puja performed since time immemorial as an offering to Rudra to reduce prevalent negative tendencies in the family and society. Maharishi isn't concocting something. These are recognized technologies used for harnessing energies of Nature, regardless of jody and stuart's brand of I-know-it-all pseudo-skepticism.
PS: I am not a TMer, just an honest Hindu proud of his Vedic heritage.
These are recognized technologies used for harnessing energies of Nature
I'd call them worn out superstitions which do little except provide a bit of psychological comfort, making them placebos rather than effective reality-shapers.
for people for whom mantra-meditation works well, the description "provides some psychological comfort" seems much too weak.
My statement about comfort applies to the practice of chanting sanskrit to "harness energies of Nature." I am quite convinced mantra is one of the the most effective techniques for introducing entrainment to a mind, thereby creating clarity.
I was initiated into mantra and say it regularly. But I'm not fooled into believing it has any effect outside of my own head.
semblance - who are you ?
I like your funny comments. You know whats slapstick comedy?
Black humor etc? you are a very potential stand up comedian. I need to listen to you talkin' though.
I was referring to mantras chanted as part of a yagna or homa, not as a personal meditation practice, when I used the term "technology to harness energies of nature".
Whether you believe it or not is immaterial. You can learn to perform certain simple Tantric/Shakta rituals using yantras and herbs etc and gauge their immediate results for yourself. Homas work along similar principles. It's not a placebo effect.
Homas work along similar principles. It's not a placebo effect.
You saying this is exactly the same as a Christian telling me that Christ died for my sins and if I don't accept him into my heart, I'm going to hell.
In other words, it's religious mythology and superstition, not actual fact rendered for all to know.
Well, the proof or evidence is in any result the person might see, isn't it? I cannot help but wonder why in certain parts of India there is so much more violence and unrest in the population than in other areas. If you look at the areas, you will find that the regions that experience the fewest bombings, bandhs (strikes for no particular reason), and general chopping up of people en masse, are those where mantras and pujas are done strictly daily in many families. Not the casual "light the diya and pray for a minute to God to get the Blessings" but actual Vedic chanting. It is done in parts of the South of India properly and according to all rules. In Bombay you find far less of that. Also in Delhi. In Calcutta you find lots of "black magic" where mantras are used in prescribed ways to hurt others. Also in Kerala. In these places you find the maximum violence and strife. It is interesting to note it. When riots break out in India and troops are called into the cities, places like Bangalore, Madras, suffer very little. Less work is lost. Fewer people are hurt. Many fewer. And we are talking about huge cities, the nearing the size of Manhattan. Of course, Bombay and Delhi are larger, but proportionately, the types of terrorism and crime are greater there. If you enter a temple in those places, often the 'priests' say in the local language "so and so just gave 100 rupees, please bless him God..." something to this effect. In temples in Mysore, Bangalore and Madras region and west of there, priests are trained in Vedic chanting from early childhood and do literally nothing else. There is definitely an effect on the population and on the atmosphere.
As to the anonymous above asking about TMers being able to chant more than a few Bija syllables -- I once witnessed two white men (who turned out to be from a Scandanavian country) dressed in white, sitting in front of a priest in the famous Rameshwaram Temple in the South. They often chanted the Rudram along with him, and did so very well. (I approached them and asked them later where they were from and how they learned, and they said that they followed TM and Maharishi Mahesh Yogi and were part of some program for him, I don't remember what...)
I think that writing off Veda to the realm of "magic" is simple ignorance. There is no way Jody or anyone else here can say for certain that Veda does or does not affect the environment. We can only say what we have observed and try to connect the dots. I did that above. It's possible there are far different reasons for the circumstances I mentioned. But it's also possible that the difference is due to proper, pervasive use of Vedic Chanting as a way to stabilize the environment.
it's also possible that the difference is due to proper, pervasive use of Vedic Chanting as a way to stabilize the environment.
Sure, it's about as probable as Sri Sri Ravi Shankar being an incarnation of Shiva.
All you have to do to prove the value that meditation and Vedic chanting have on the environment is to drive to Fairfield! You'll feel like a million bucks there...until you begin to feel the effects of the TM caste system at work. Then you will feel like shit because you will never actually HAVE a million bucks, which is what you need to particiapate fully in the TM program. There will always be TMers around to make you feel almost subhuman because of the money issue...or you could join the underclass caste and feel good about not being on of those other kinds of assholes!
Am I right, Fred?
Jody, it's pretty ironic that if it weren't for the Vedas, you would be just another disillusioned, lonely, 40-something drop-out with nothing of substance to say. If it weren't for the Vedic traditions which have been preserved by the Sannyasi orders, you would not be parroting Sankara (you would instead come up with your own equally sophisticated and comprehensive vernacular - dog's ass doesn't count).
The Bhagavad Gita also considers yagna to be the best form of nishkama karma, or detached action, because one performs the rituals for the benefit of all, not for oneself.
You're looking foolish by claiming that everything devised by the Rishis is superstition just because it doesn't fit in your myopic view of Reality. To be so adamant in your judgment of what is true and what is superstition in Hinduism is laughable. That Christianity comparison/argument was so weak. Is that the best you got?
It's now become obvious that you are not interested in propagating truth. You are only interesting in protecting the agenda of your blog, truth be damned.
Please post this. I'm sure you will have the last word as always.
Jody, it's pretty ironic that if it weren't for the Vedas, you would be just another disillusioned, lonely, 40-something drop-out with nothing of substance to say.
What are you talking about? I am all those things with the Vedas.
If it weren't for the Vedic traditions which have been preserved by the Sannyasi orders, you would not be parroting Sankara
Actually, I para-parrot Shankara. I'm too lazy to actually read any of it.
(you would instead come up with your own equally sophisticated and comprehensive vernacular - dog's ass doesn't count).
Your ridiculous overestimation of my intellectual abilities noted with amusement.
The Bhagavad Gita also considers yagna to be the best form of nishkama karma, or detached action, because one performs the rituals for the benefit of all, not for oneself.
And I say that bhakti is the easiest path, parroting the father of my lineage. This includes performing puja. But devotional puja is one thing, attempting to control the physical universe by magical means is entirely another.
You're looking foolish by claiming that everything devised by the Rishis is superstition just because it doesn't fit in your myopic view of Reality.
You are looking equally foolish by claiming I claim everything the Rishis said is superstition.
The Rishis wrote the Upanishads. While they float in the lake of superstition that is Hinduism general, their message is anything but superstitious, and in fact they counteract most of the superstition that waylays Hinduism as it is known in the West.
To be so adamant in your judgment of what is true and what is superstition in Hinduism is laughable. That Christianity comparison/argument was so weak. Is that the best you got?
It did the job. To say that chanting words of any language has a direct, physical effect on the world (other than on the air molecules within range of the chanter) is just as superstitious as saying you are going to Hell because you haven't accepted Jesus.
It's now become obvious that you are not interested in propagating truth. You are only interesting in protecting the agenda of your blog, truth be damned.
Opinion noted. I mean to make clear the fact that gurus are every bit as human as the rest of us, that all are equally divine regardless of their status as realized or not, and that any and all ideas and sensations associated with enlightement have as much to do with our truth as the Self as my dog's ass and can actually get in the way of spiritual understanding. Whatever else you are calling "truth" is not my concern.
Please post this. I'm sure you will have the last word as always.
...
anon said: "cannot help but wonder why in certain parts of India there is so much more violence and unrest in the population than in other areas. If you look at the areas, you will find that the regions that experience the fewest bombings, bandhs (strikes for no particular reason), and general chopping up of people en masse, are those where mantras and pujas are done strictly daily in many families."
I hope you are right , anon. rational cures for humanity are becoming more and more remote. I detest New Age fundamentalist bs but still think western society is too influenced by 19th century positivism which reduces experience to scientific objectivity. I am all for mystery.
Please send me a mantra and I will do an experiment at home. I would rather get it from you than the maharishi.
anon said:
you will find that the regions that experience the fewest bombings, ...., are those where mantras and pujas are done strictly daily in many families.
Anon, you stretch a logic to stupidity. Why not compare law and order situation in India with that in a western country unknown of vedic chanting?
blade said,
Unfortunately, anon, correlation is not causation.
...................
It would be cool to put blade and semblance in the same pot filled tower, just to hear them talk, talk, talk... There's a certain ring to everything they say. Reminds me of the ring in my teenagers toilet bowl.
blade said: Durga, also, good instructions and an appropriate mantra are given at aypsite.org (look for lessions in 'deep meditation').
Thanks Blade, the site looks interesting. I clicked on a link that led me to a yoga nidra CD, which I will try. After reading about it, sounds like something I should have been doing a long time ago. As you can tell, I am not well informed about yogic practices. I'm from a part of the US where the dionysian ethic has kept eastern practices at bay.
Durga said,
I'm from a part of the US where the dionysian ethic has kept eastern practices at bay.
...........
Now we can add durga and make a threesome with blade and semblance. They can all 3 thrive in the same pot filled tower.
Blade said: no need for a CD if you don't want it.
Thanks, Blade. I'm on a computer too much of the time and prefer books and CD's to the internet, and my epson printer has broken for the 3rd time.
Betty said: "They can all 3 thrive in the same pot filled tower".
I never got much out of smoking pot, Betty. I'd rather a bottle of red wine.
An intoxicant of any kind is still a sin, Durga.
Betty said: Everybody can't be as good lookin as Durga.
I'm surprised to hear you say something like that, betty. I thought you would be impressed with my irreverant behavior.
The previous post by anon was a blunder, it should read: betty said: An intoxicant of any kind is still a sin, Durga.
my response: I'm surprised to hear you say something like that, betty. I thought you would be impressed with my irreverant behavior.
I think the guruphiliac blog was attacked by a poltergeist for a little while.
I'm surprised you didn't become Hare Krishna yourself, Durga. You always defer nicely to men, which is very important there.
"You always defer nicely to men, which is very important there."
Well Betty, maybe I just don't like to disagree with people in a disrespectful way. I know how to do it, but prefer not to except in extreme situations, like when abusive behavior is an issue. You, on the other hand, like it. So go for it.
Ramakrishna Paramahamsa did his practices in a place where he warned another person not to go (a garden). That person went there at night anyway and was so affected by the atmosphere he ran away frightened. I'm assuming Jody has read this story and since he follows Ramakrishna (correct me if I'm wrong on that), has to admit that the guy was a Tantric. He knew, didn't believe, that yagna and mantra affect everything, including the environment. I don't understand why there is all this argument against that fact here. Is it a western thing? Something like being against paganism? I also don't understand the comparison between vedic pundits chanting and fundamentalist christians at all. Perhaps it's a lack of exposure or education on the part of the people here who are so dead set against veda affecting the environment?
That person went there at night anyway and was so affected by the atmosphere he ran away frightened.
He scared himself. It happens all the time.
I'm assuming Jody has read this story and since he follows Ramakrishna (correct me if I'm wrong on that), has to admit that the guy was a Tantric.
So?
He knew, didn't believe, that yagna and mantra affect everything, including the environment.
Ramakrishna was an intelligent yet completely uneducated village boy who believed in every superstition that Hinduism pollutes the world with.
I don't understand why there is all this argument against that fact here.
Because it's not any kind of "fact" at all.
Is it a western thing? Something like being against paganism? I also don't understand the comparison between vedic pundits chanting and fundamentalist christians at all.
Christians pray to change the world into what they (wrongly) believe it should be. Vedic geeks chant to do the same, according to the template of their belief system.
Perhaps it's a lack of exposure or education on the part of the people here who are so dead set against veda affecting the environment?
It's a matter of common sense versus ridiculous flights of fancy.
To believe chanting words has a direct effect on matter (other than the air that gets pushed around) is like a child talking to his imaginary friends. It happens all in their heads, not in the world around them.
For me it's that having experienced the extravagant lies and deceptions of Maharishi and his crew over a number of decades, I wouldn't believe him if he said Bush wasn't an asshole. I'd have to reconsider that Bush might be OK.
Anon said: "I don't understand why there is all this argument against that fact here. Is it a western thing?"
Alright, I'm going to say something that is going to get me in trouble. I've already said that I'm from a part of the US that still adheres to the Dionysian ethic, so if you can guess where that is, I'll add that us folks from there believe in all sorts of strange phenomenon. Several people I know from this particular city have actually seen or heard some kind of ghost or spirit. And the people who believe in this do have common sense, but maybe we're just a little bit more imaginative than the rest of the country. So, maybe I am the oddball here, but I think anon has a point. Americans do tend not to completely understand other peoples' beliefs in phenomenon such as these, and therefore discount them. I think it's competely possible that mantras affect the environment in some way, but I doubt that effect is strong enough to counter the general human stupidity and violence that is leading to extinction. taking political/social action would be far more effectiive,
Durga said,
So, maybe I am the oddball here...
...............
Not by a long shot, Durga. Compared to semblance, betty, blade, jacks'flask and others, you make good sence.
chuck said: Not by a long shot, Durga. Compared to semblance, betty, blade, jacks'flask and others, you make good sence.
I think Semblance gets the award, though. I say we honor him with a mug of mocha pot with a picture of the Maharishi's peace tower embedded in it.
Jac flash gets my approval because he hung out in the hare krishna temple on Comm. Ave a few times.
blade said: Not sure what exactly you mean by the Dionysian ethic -- could you explain?
I don't want to completely give away my identity, Blade, but the dionysian ethic is generally one in which pleasure, hedonism, and a carefree attitude are given greater weight than logic, the work ethic and thinking about ones karma. I'm not saying I'm from N.O., but that's one of the reasons they're in such a mess right now.
Nevertheless, it may be a good thing that many of Jody's targets of criticism never had much traction there.
Jody said
Ramakrishna was an intelligent yet completely uneducated village boy who believed in every superstition that Hinduism pollutes the world with.
.......................
And you know this, how? Isn't every idea a pollution of the pure world of formless existence, just like every expression of truth turns to shit as it leaves the mouth? So your ideas are shit and your words are shit. Sri Ramakrishna should ve treated with respect by someone who claims his lineage.
Well Jody,
Exactly how do you know, with absolute certainty, that all your opinions such as:
you said "To believe chanting words has a direct effect on matter (other than the air that gets pushed around) is like a child talking to his imaginary friends. It happens all in their heads, not in the world around them.
....are facts? You state that there is no fact in my presumption that vedic chanting really does affect the environment, then go on to spew all your "facts".
There is no proof either way.
I still say it is western bigotry against something you cannot understand. Many Hindus also believe that Christianity is just all imagination and fantasy and not common sense. So up comes the great theory that Jesus Christ is actually buried in Kashmir, was never killed on the cross, etc. This makes them feel more secure in their view of the world.
Could it just be that you are arguing this much about vedic chanting because to believe that it might do something you cannot accept (alter the environment) would rock your world too much? Do you feel threatened by others' beliefs?
Or is it just that we are simply having a difference of opinion and you admit that you don't know the facts either in this case? (Because I don't think either of us can prove anything, I'd have to admit these are my opinions.)
My opinion remains that Vedic chanting does alter people and their environment as well, and the idea that it is just some backward superstition is your western racism showing it's ugly head.
And to argue that you "follow" Ramakrishna, and that you do mantra, would be like a white racist in the United States saying "I enjoy many foods from the African Culture, therefore I am not a bigot." Face it -- you are maligning a huge mass of people (Hindus) when you compare us to superstitious children talking to imaginary playmates. It's really quite offensive.
1/17/2007 8:20 AM
There is no proof either way.
Which makes my case. In other words, to believe that chanting Sanskrit changes the world is only a belief, and little different than believing in a fairy tale.
Many Hindus also believe that Christianity is just all imagination and fantasy and not common sense.
Smart Hindus those are.
Could it just be that you are arguing this much about vedic chanting because to believe that it might do something you cannot accept (alter the environment) would rock your world too much?
No, it's simply because there is no proof it does anything outside the heads of the chanters.
you are maligning a huge mass of people (Hindus) when you compare us to superstitious children talking to imaginary playmates. It's really quite offensive.
To those Hindus who believe in the fairy tales of their religion. I feel the same way about the fairy tales of any religion, including my own. I am an equal opportunity offender against any superstition of any kind, not just Hinduism's. However, seeing as Hinduism's fairy tales are uncritically accepted just because they are exotic and offer an escape for Westerners means that I aim for them more often than the superstitions of other religions.
And you know this, how?
I've read several biographies several times.
Isn't every idea a pollution of the pure world of formless existence, just like every expression of truth turns to shit as it leaves the mouth? So your ideas are shit and your words are shit.
When stood up against the nondual truth, of course they are. But used as tools to understand the life of a strange little Kali devotee, they may have some value to some.
Sri Ramakrishna should be treated with respect by someone who claims his lineage.
I can call Ramakrishna a queer little man and still have respect for him. It's just that I've dropped the hagiographic nonsense and regard him as a human being with many faults and eccentricities, as well as being one of modern history's greatest spiritual savants.
Jody said,
I can call Ramakrishna a queer little man and still have respect for him...
...............Alright then!
Jody said,
I can call Ramakrishna a queer little man and still have respect for him...
..................
This is no different than the relationship Naren had with Ramakrishna. As I've said before, Jody reminds me very much of Vivekananda!
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