Thursday, July 12, 2007

Our Shame In The Senate

File under: Backroom Gurudom

We regularly get accused to being anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, a hate site and various others distortions and amplifications of folks' projections and need to demonize any critics of their holy heroes. We also get accused of ignoring Christianity here in the States, as if we were on some kind of secret mission for Christian missionaries in India.

None of these things is true, of course. What follows is one of the most depressing things we've read about politics in the States in a time when there are mountains of depressing things to know about:
Senate aides have said that apparently the protestors who disrupted the beginning of Hindu chaplain Rajan Zed's history-making opening prayer in the US Senate July 12, belonged to the American Family Association. The association had been waging a vicious campaign to torpedo the invitation to Zed, ever since it was announced that a Hindu chaplain would deliver the opening prayer.

Three protestors identified as Ante Nediko Pavkovic, Katherine Lynn Pavkovic and Christan Renee Sugar by Capitol Hill police, who however, did not provide their hometown, ages and affiliations, were arrested, handcuffed and taken away when they shouted complaints from the gallery, including, "Lord Jesus, protect us from this abomination," as soon as Zed was introduced and began his prayer.

The Associated Press reported that the only male protestor among the three had told its correspondent before being handcuffed and hauled away by police, "We are Christians and patriots."

From the time reports began appearing in the mainstream media that a Hindu chaplain had been invited to open the US Senate session July 12 as a guest chaplain, the Tupelo, Mississippi-based American Family Association has been sending action alerts exhorting its members and other Christian fundamentalists to "send an e-mail to your Senator now, expressing your disappointment in the Senate decision to invite a Hindu to open the session with prayer."
So you see, we have our own RSS-like goons and the same kind of utterly ignorant, grandstanding and self-aggrandizing monsters of hubris known as fundamentalist-aligned elected officials.

Labels:

11 Comments:

At 7/13/2007 12:44 AM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

Jody said....We also get accused of ignoring Christianity here in the States, as if we were on some kind of secret mission for Christian missionaries in India.

~~~~ But the fact you found this piecemeal (happened at home) on a 'indian' website tells that you have been busy combing for something 'indian'. Dont tell me theres no news item on this in none of the portals from the land of the 'free' ??? If there has been no newspiece, then its blacking out something as undemocratic as this ?? Then its not just shame on senate but its a shame on all media moghuls from america. Shame on you that you have to find it from a portal, half way around the world, about something that happened at your own backyard ?

Jody said...We regularly get accused to being anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, a hate site and various others distortions and amplifications of folks' projections and need to demonize any critics of their holy idol...
....as if we were on some kind of secret mission for Christian missionaries in India.None of these things is true, of course.

~~~~ This is the mistake jody.
You did not have to justify your stand in so many words. You could have simply put this matter in black and white and leave the rest to the readers. I did send this piece to you but I never thought you would have to use this to defend yourself this badly !
You spoilt the whole fun of reading this post.

 
At 7/13/2007 10:41 AM, Blogger CHUCK said...

semblance, you have gone back to being full of shit my friend! Jody is no more responsible for the sad state of news coverage in the USofA than you are for all the Hindu hooligans beating each other with crow bars!

At least most of the fundementalists aroud here are all talk! Pull the stick out of your tired smoke filled ass and write something nice with it, good buddy!

You are in profound need of an enema!

 
At 7/13/2007 12:59 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Yes, Semblance, you are a fool. Jody is clearly not a "Christian missionary" and you should be glad that he posted this. In other words, like most guru-defenders, you do more harm to your own cause than a true enemy could.

Also, I should point out like Chuck did, that these protestors, lame as they may be, used no violence. I am not a Christian fundamentalist nor do I support their causes, but they have been too easily tossed into the same basket as jihadists and, to a lesser degree, hindu radicals. The jihadists are the worst, but the more I read about India, the less hinduism appeals to me as a "non-violent religion". Christians are often tagged for the following: Eric Rudolph and Tim McVeigh.

Rudolph was an athiest nazi who only supported blowing up abortion clinics in WHITE areas. It was only about race for him.

McVeigh was also an atheist who based his actions on NO Chritian motivations.

So, the two major arguments used by non-Christians to argue that "Christians are just as violent as Muslims or Hindus" are both total fallacies.

Also, one of the weakest defenses of guru-defenders is "you just don't understand Indian politics!" OK, fucksticks, take two minutes out and try and explain it to me!

Explain why it is normal for gangs of goons to defend the smallest slights against gurus. Explain why it is normal that politicians suck up to gurus and exploit hindu traditions for votes. Explain why we should view Hinduism as a "superior path" to other religions when India is rife with poverty, religious schism, street battles between sects, etc. Yes, we have many of these things here in America. No doubt. I can accept the "it's just the way things are in India" argument, but if that's "just the way things are", why should I embrace hinduism, which has been the organizing principle behind "the way things are" in India for millenia? This is the question I have for Western spiritual seekers who idealize the East "If Eastern spirituality is so superior to the West, why is everything so totally jacked up and crazy in India, Burma, Thailand, China, Nepal, and so many others?"

Sorry, not trying to sound too harsh, I have friends of all religions, but this stuff really ticks me off!

 
At 7/13/2007 1:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Also, just wanted to point out, Jody, that the headline here is very deceptive. "Shame of the Senate" implies that this was the fault of Senators. Surely, there are many senators who think this way in their private lives and who would take money from this org, but the Senate as a body invited the hindus, and the Senate as represented by the security force KICKED out the disruptors. The headline should be more like "Pride of the Senate, Shame of the Fundies". The Senate has nothing to be ashamed of, the anti-Hindu fanatics do. But thanks anyway for all the great work...

 
At 7/13/2007 4:14 PM, Blogger CHUCK said...

Anonymous said...
Yes, Semblance, you are a fool.
.................

Now anonymoush you are bein way too hard on my friend semblance. Having been raised as a fundementalist christian I can tell you that it sucks. The main difference between a full blown christian fundementalist and a islamic jihadist is about two weeks of indoctrination, plus a gun.

 
At 7/13/2007 4:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Anonymous wrote:

>>So, the two major arguments used by non-Christians to argue that "Christians are just as violent as Muslims or Hindus" are both total fallacies.<<

Oh, as if Christian fundies and other religious loonies don't ever resort to violence, only Muslims and Hindus? Hello?!? Who bombs abortion clinics? Guess who--nominally "Christian"(I doubt Jesus would endorse anything done "in His name") right-to-lifer whack jobs. And let's not get started on all the problems "Christian" missionaries have caused over centures.

JDL has done some pretty interesting things as well, even to other Jews...and...well, I've made my point. There are violent, righteous idiots everywhere. There are also many, many more peaceable Muslims, Hindus, Christians. Jews, etc. than otherwise. This is not a religious fundie pissing contest. Lighten up, anonymous!

 
At 7/14/2007 5:17 AM, Anonymous seeingatheist said...

I get that all the time, whenever I take the mick out of a religion, even if it is (or should I say was) my own religion, I get told off. Even now, when I took the mick out of hinduism on youtube (the hindu blasphemy challenge by a guy holding a picture of krishna), I have been told that I am a xtian fundie, and one of the replies i got, was racist.They even said I know nothing about hinduism. Erm no, after being a hindu I am now an atheist. The dumbasses don't even read my youtube profile.

If you are not with them you are against them, when someone cusses their stupid religion it makes them really uncomfortable and they thrash about trying to justify their beleifs, even if it means being racist or cussing your mother and include a few goats in there as well. LOL.

religion: same shite different smell.

Anyway, this site is funny and informative at the same time.

 
At 7/14/2007 1:45 PM, Blogger semblance s and orchestra said...

Dude, you failed to figure what i said...

"We also get accused of ignoring Christianity here in the States, as if we were on some kind of secret mission for Christian missionaries in India"

It appeared out of place.
Perhaps i was too stoned to think that way or may be its the truth.
And then once again he mentioned

"We regularly get accused to being anti-Indian, anti-Hindu, a hate site and various others distortions and amplifications of folks' projections and need to demonize any critics of their holy idol..."

This was a dampening passage for smoked out spirits like mine.
PERHAPS WHAT I LIKE TO SEE IS JODY APPRECIATING THE INDIANS WHO SHARE SIMILAR THOUGHTS HERE IN THE COMMENTS COLUMN AS THE BLOGGER HIMSELF and the numerous press pieces that has been picked from indian media and reproduced here which reflect the same.

I cant squirm in discomfort with or without a pipe shoved in, when the blog try to sound like all indians are equally occluded and it is the handful few outside india who could see the truth and bring it to light.

Im not able to see this issue as a hindu or non hindu but its more regionalized than religionalized.

-----------------------------------
Anon said, besides many things...

"but this stuff really ticks me off!"


And thats precisely what i wanted. To tick you off you bozo!!!. Because i feel sleey past these few days over this blog and when i snore atop the screen with Gphiliac blog on it, then i know its time to pick some fight and tick some zombie off. Like the many profound encouters I have had with chuckJI in the past year. I had been the loser always when it came to Chuck but i never mind that. Because chuckJi is almost my gurulike despite his strong funda mental christian background and his mule and a horsefaced family members.

I dont want to licka$$ anyone.
Even if it is jody. Win or lose i like to booze and type here. Take it leave it, i like to rattle and punch keys here, cuz this is my homepage on my home computer for tha past one year....

But for now excuse me..gotta go and pee !

 
At 7/14/2007 3:14 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Reply to "other anonymous" (I need to get off my ass and sign up for a "google id" or whatever)

"Oh, as if Christian fundies and other religious loonies don't ever resort to violence, only Muslims and Hindus? Hello?!? Who bombs abortion clinics?"

-Covered in above post. Please give me the stats of people killed by CHRISTIAN-motivated abortion bombers versus the number of people killed by ISLAM-motivated suicide bombers in the last 20 years. And as mentioned, Rudolph doesn't count. This is not to say that Christianity is perfect. Hardly. However, it has gone through major reformations and generally secularized itself, though there are certainly those who want to roll back the clock. The inquisition, Scopes monkey trial, etc. these things should not be forgotten! However, I do not see the same level of MODERN-DAY VIOLENCE being committed in the name of Jesus that I see in Islam (and to a much lesser degree Hinduism). The wars fought by the west are generally fought with economics in mind, not holiness.

Reply to Chuck:
"Now anonymoush you are bein way too hard on my friend semblance. Having been raised as a fundementalist christian I can tell you that it sucks. The main difference between a full blown christian fundementalist and a islamic jihadist is about two weeks of indoctrination, plus a gun."

- I was also raised as a fundie and agree: it sucks balls! I would also agree that there are complete Christian loons in boot camps, preparing for Armageddon and the like. However, they thus far are not ACTING on this training and indoctrination. They also do not represent the mainstream of Christian thinking in the way that terror-supporting and sharia-supporting bodies like Al Azhar University do. For example, the head of Al Azhar has gone on Egyptian television and advocated and condoned the beating of wives. Can you imagine the president of Notre Dame University or, hell, even Liberty University, going on CNN and doing the same thing? Islam has not gone through its reformation and that is a huge fucking problem, and it's possible that Hinduism hasn't either. However, I will say that Hindus in the West have done a far better job secularizing themselves than Muslims in the West, which is why I generally find Hinduism less scary. Again, it all boils down to a basic "kill my ass" principle. I don't see an upswell of Hindus dancing in the streets promising my death, nor do I see Christians doing it. Really love your posts, Chuck, but I am cautious about assuming "that all religious fundamentalisms are equally dangerous". Potentially, that is true, but I am not concerned with "potential", but what is happening right now in the world in front of my eyes.

 
At 7/15/2007 8:33 AM, Blogger CHUCK said...

semblance said...chuckJi is almost my gurulike despite his strong funda mental christian background and his mule and a horsefaced family members.
..............

It's not despite but because of these things, good buddy. I am living proof that the Good Lord likes the smell of his own fart! As are you, my friend, and in another way that candy assed fellow "On the Other Hand" who used to post here.

I don't have the brain power of some of the folks who post here but I do have the same stamina as my good mule. We just keep plowing the same field, shitting in our furrows and watchin the moon set in the pin oak trees, while not drinkin even as much as a glass of beer or smokin a single joint. All we get is a strong glass of iced tea and all the fried okra we can gob down! Nobody said the Good Lord was fair!

..............\\

anonymouth said...They also do not represent the mainstream of Christian thinking in the way that terror-supporting and sharia-supporting bodies like Al Azhar University do.

........

Comparing different fundie groups is like saying one pile of shit stinks less than another. While on the surface I would have to agree that Islamic fundementalism is the worst kind of religion I know of, a few more years of Bush and his ilk and our own mad dogs will be just as bad. It’s a beautiful world with Jesus on his throne and in the background a choir of a billion screamin souls burnin in hell for all eternity!

 
At 7/16/2007 10:45 AM, Anonymous freefall said...

Islam has not gone through its reformation and that is a huge fucking problem, and it's possible that Hinduism hasn't either. However, I will say that Hindus in the West have done a far better job secularizing themselves than Muslims in the West, which is why I generally find Hinduism less scary.

What about the link Jody posted on RSS? To me it looked like Hindu version of Al-Qaeda.

 

Post a Comment

<< Home