Sunday, July 08, 2007

Ammachi: It Only Gets Worse

File under: Amma All-Over-The-Planet and Ammachi's Goongate

Just when you thought you'd heard it all, like Ammachi turning out to be, at the very least, aligned with the people and goals of the radical, racist, Hindu nationalist right; and at worst, a foaming-at-the-mouth radical nationalist herself; her org goes one up from even that after the residents of one of her ashrams got all gangsta' on the residents of the Green Avenue neighborhood outside New Delhi, India, a few months ago:
"A bus loaded with about 40-50 goondas armed with lathis and iron rods came out of the bus and attacked us. The goons snatched our mobile phones and a lady ashramite tore her clothes and threatened us that's she'd tell the police we molested her."
We especially love the false "rape" charges threat. Way to work that satya yama, lady!

And believe it or not, it gets much worse:
"The holligans started shouting, 'we will kill the bald man' and charged vengefully screaming at [the bald man] to get out of the way"
This was after they has already trashed a golf cart and more than a couple of the Green Ave. residents, along with their security guard.

Apparently, the ashramites had put up a sign for Amma's visit, which the Green Ave. residents were fine with. But after Amma's visit, the residents wanted the sign down as it was in breach of the local covenant. After a long period without response from Amma's folks, the residents took it upon themselves to remove the sign. When they showed up to do so, the ashramites attending the sign made a few phone calls. Soon afterward, a bus showed up with 50 goons and Amma's love came at the Green Ave. residents with canes and crow bars.

Of course, the cops did absolutely nothing. They are probably owned by the membership of the RSS... and possibly included in Amma's muscle in this case.

What we can't figure out is if this is an example of Amma's love in action, or a symptom of not enough of Amma's love. If it is Amma's love, it's certainly much more of a tough love than folks in the States are aware of. If it's an example of not enough love, then we need to be taking a look at treatment options for these folks' obviously imbalanced hug addiction.

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41 Comments:

At 7/08/2007 7:22 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's a shame that the M.A. Math has the Western media in their back pocket. People will never know the truth of what is going on over there. Her PR team is too huge and powerful, and even if that doesn't work, she has goons who will lay down physical harm or even death on anyone who tries to cross her.

Just take a look at the resume of her main spokesperson in the United States.

http://www.highgroundconsulting.com/resume.htm

 
At 7/08/2007 8:05 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Translation:

'Goonda'--- thug or hooligan

'Lathi'--- long stick or cane, used to threaten or beat people.

I guess this is the modern version of 'satyagraha'-- truth force.

And for daring to report this, no doubt Jody's going to be accused of not understanding the subtlties of Indian culture, or racism, or etc.

Amma's US organization is tax exempt, and that means those of us who are paying our taxes are indirectly subsidizing this.

Yuck.

So, that's a mattter to consider. If you happen to get involved with a foriegn born guru, always dare to find out whether this person behaves consistently, both in his or her country of origin, as well as in the West.

If you manifest love and hugs in the West and condone your disciples acting as a goon squad in India, that, friends is dualism in action...

And, it isnt crazy wisdom. Its time to retire that tired old alibi.

 
At 7/08/2007 8:36 PM, Anonymous huhwhat said...

Ah well, catz outta the bag isn't it?

Ammachi comes to the West with her giant hugging money vacuum and brings all of that swept up loot back to India to open TV Stations and Colleges for the rich and powerful in India. A smart public relations team is paid here in the United States and Europe to keep pumping up the fairytale of "the hugging saint from India", so that she can continue to do this. The $$ paid to ensure all of that great press is just a drop in the bucket compared to the fortune they will rake in as they preach a load of crap to stupid Westerners with Mommy issues.

In the meantime, they are participating in Hindu Nazi training camps and trying to off anyone who isn't going along with the agenda.

Whenz it gonna stop?

Whenz the American media gonna wake up and start reporting on the reality of the hugging saint?

 
At 7/09/2007 1:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I suggest somebody (probably Jody) update her Wikipedia Entry with all this info

 
At 7/09/2007 3:47 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE: Wikipedia. Yes. Someone should do it. Someone brave. Jody?

 
At 7/09/2007 3:52 PM, Blogger jody said...

Jody?

I don't have the time to get into a Wiki-war with those Kool-Aid poisoned numbskulls.

Somebody else is going to have to do it.

 
At 7/09/2007 4:03 PM, Anonymous laboratorian said...

Q. Whenz the American media gonna wake up and start reporting on the reality of the hugging saint?

A. Never. Amma's over a woman and over 35, meaning she is completely off the radar of any prime-time muckraker. Likewise most Americans don't care about fascist groups like the National Front in white European countries, does it seem likely that they'd even bother with caring about it in India? And Lou Dobbs won't cover her unless she opens a call center that puts Americans out of work. And finally, the only people that really care that there are so many phony gurus out there are us already-marginalized fringe lunatics whose hobbies include sitting still for hours on end, and we're hardened burnouts less likely to part with our meager cash--i.e., a tiny-ass market sentiment--than your typical overfunded but pretty vacant Baby Boomer looking for a "Space Mommy".

All that said, why it is Amma can't just drop the Enlightenment Schtick and just charge for hugs like the G-rated prostitute she is boggles the mind. I mean, once a week I'm even willing to grant that maybe Big [M]Amma has reached some stage of spiritual enlightenment but she's less interested in teaching liberation than she is in world domination, I mean hell, we all gotta have hobbies.

 
At 7/10/2007 1:11 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RE the Wikipedia article. FYI, I posted an update in the Criticism section of her Wikipedia entry. I included links and citations to newspaper articles with references to both the LAX Hilton controversy and the issue of the residents being attacked violently by ashramites.

Within a half hour, the edits I posted were deleted. Completely vanished. Another Wikipedia member (probably from Ammachi's ashram) deleted it within a half hour of my posting it.

 
At 7/10/2007 1:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is what was posted in the Wikipedia article which was immediately removed by a user named Bharatveer.

According to the newspaper, Metro Now http://atman.net/guruphiliac/ammasgoons.jpg, In June 2007, the ashramites of Mata Amritanandamayi had put up a sign for Amma's visit, which New Delhi's Green Ave. residents agreed to. But after Amma's visit, the residents wanted the sign down as it was in breach of the local covenant. After a long period without response from Amma's ashram, the residents took it upon themselves to remove the sign. When they showed up to do so, the ashramites attending the sign made some phone calls. Soon afterward, an ashram bus showed up with 50 devotees who attacked the residents with canes and crow bars. The ashram has not yet responded to the allegations.

 
At 7/10/2007 3:37 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

From:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/15/MNGDVD8PJF1.DTL

Asked whether she thinks gays should be allowed to marry, the Mother of Immortal Bliss got diplomatic.

"There is a lot of physical freedom in this country, and I am for love and freedom," she replied. "However, I can neither say the government is wrong nor the gays are right."


You see how she never answers questions like this? She doesn't want to lose all of the gay $$ that's why. Lots of gay folks around the Amma scene....wonder how they feel about such comments.

 
At 7/12/2007 12:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HEY! Keep it real people. I have seen Amma lots of times and spent time in her ashram. She is consistant in her attitude, Love, Compassion and Wisdom. Reading this makes me feel sick - why do medocre, ignorant people always, ALWAYS, try to bring down those who are above them? Ego? For sure, find out the truth before you say something, because it exposes your stupid foolishness otherwise.
Get a life.

 
At 7/13/2007 11:04 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

anonymous said...
HEY! Keep it real people. I have seen Amma lots of times and spent time in her ashram. She is consistant in her attitude, Love, Compassion and Wisdom. Reading this makes me feel sick - why do medocre, ignorant people always, ALWAYS, try to bring down those who are above them? Ego? For sure, find out the truth before you say something, because it exposes your stupid foolishness otherwise.
Get a life.



If only you knew how many of us sounded just like you in times gone by, from who knows how many cults.

I have empathy for the frenzied tone of your comments. You are being shaken out of a slumber which you are not yet ready to emerge from. When your time arrives, as it has for countless numbers of others (from many cults, not just Amma's cult... I know using Amma's name and the word "cult" will hit your buttons, but it is the truth), you will make it.

For this reason, I have empathy for your frenzied words. I was once in a numbed mindset, just like you.

Then bit by bit I woke up, and now I am free.

Don't give up when your time comes, it may be very hard, but there is an ex-Amma site from what I understand. It will help a lot to have others to talk to.

Life does get much better, post cult.

 
At 7/16/2007 10:59 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

This is totally false. Do not blame MA Math for all this. There is avery popular saying 'When man bites a dog, it is news'. See the good things because 99.9% good things are happening. (I know there is slim chance of this appearing on your blog as your sole purpose is to defame the Gurus. So go ahead.)

 
At 7/16/2007 8:56 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is avery popular saying 'When man bites a dog, it is news'.


Different versions of this have appeared in different cults. It's not anything new to think or imbibe. More or less a standard party line, as cult language/phrases go.

 
At 7/25/2007 3:26 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found this site when I googled "Amma and cult". I did so because my mother has gotten sucked into this twisted organization that allows its followers to pretty much believe whatever they want so long as they truck around the world in the name of peace and love with the hugging saint. (sometimes at the expense of their retirement, as is the case with my mother) Now adults ought to make whatever choices they want and need to make. However, preying upon the weak and insecure in the name of maintaining a twisted culture centered upon the worship of a human being is no better than the tradition of Jerry Falwell and Jim Baker.

 
At 7/25/2007 9:09 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I found this site when I googled "Amma and cult". I did so because my mother has gotten sucked into this twisted organization that allows its followers to pretty much believe whatever they want so long as they truck around the world in the name of peace and love with the hugging saint. (sometimes at the expense of their retirement, as is the case with my mother) Now adults ought to make whatever choices they want and need to make. However, preying upon the weak and insecure in the name of maintaining a twisted culture centered upon the worship of a human being is no better than the tradition of Jerry Falwell and Jim Baker.


I wish you all the best in waiting it out until your mother wakes up and comes out the other side of this cult. Cults can destroy friendships, families and people.

The more the subject is brought up to her, the more it may drive her deeper into this cult. Carefully worded sentences now and again may do the most good. Something said very simply and plainly may take seed in her mind eventually (don't barrage her alot, just every now and again one sentence to think about).

You may want to go to the ex-amma site (I believe Jody has listed in in the current July 2007 page addition (near the top of the current page posted on his site).

It's a mess this cult business, and I hope for a good outcome of your mother getting out, sooner rather than later.

Best to you, as you go through watching her involved like this.

 
At 7/26/2007 10:15 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for the suggestions. We are grappling with ways to deal with this, and it's clear you have experience in this department - mom goes into an irrational defensive shell at the slightest criticism of Amma or the organization. And thank you as well for the link to the ex-amma discussion group.

 
At 7/27/2007 5:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thank you so much for the suggestions. We are grappling with ways to deal with this, and it's clear you have experience in this department - mom goes into an irrational defensive shell at the slightest criticism of Amma or the organization. And thank you as well for the link to the ex-amma discussion group.


You are welcome. Something that might be helpful for you and those watching your mother go through this, is to read some books and material on cults. Begin to educate yourselves on the layers of indoctrination (slowly at first, subtle; once the brainwashing really starts to take hold, it can become more pronounced by leaps and bounds. Members can be suckered in by that point).

I'll try to list some books which might be helpful within the next few days (by the end of the weekend). Ask on the ex amma site if they have suggested reading material for you and other loved ones who are watching this ordeal unfold in all of your lives.

The Cult Awareness Network was taken over by Scientology, so stay away from any material or sites they offer or host.

Patience is one of the keys. Some people drop in to these groups for ten to fifteen to twenty years. I am really hoping it won't be that long for your mother.

If there are issues within your family which miight have helped drive her in to this group, counseling may be necessary (not an amma member counselor, but an independent counselor). You or your family could start, as I doubt your mother would agree to do anything which she might sense threatens her involvement with this cult.

It's good to know that ex amma people have set up a site for support. I'm glad you have found it.

 
At 10/14/2007 11:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been with Amma all over India and the US. This is pure slander, no real Amma devotee would do anything like this, nor would Amma condone this, ever. She has no "goons" - how ludicrous! All I have ever seen in India with Amma is the millions of dollars and the countless hours she spends to help the poor, the widowed women, the sick, the dying, the hungry, the homeless and those needing an education. Ammachi is always giving - never with a care for her own health or fortunes. Her energy is unbelievable, all of it spent to help others. I've seen too much with my own eyes, spent too much time near Amma and her ashramites to ever believe these idiotic assertions. Yes, India sends the world more than its share of greedy con artists in the guise of Holy men and women, but Amma is not among them. I have no idea why you have chosen to slander someone who has gained the admiration of the world, including the United Nations, for her selfless example, but surely your motives are not honorable.

 
At 10/15/2007 7:09 AM, Blogger jody said...

I have no idea why you have chosen to slander someone who has gained the admiration of the world

Because her employees were involved in this heinous assault. Wake up and smell the chai. The residents of Ammachi's New Delhi ashram are out and out violent gangsters and criminals.

 
At 7/14/2009 8:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been to see Amma once and would go again to feel the connection to the universe again. Would I pack up and move in to an MA center? No way! There are people out there who take something as beautiful as a hug and turn it into something ugly. I think of Amma as a wonderful woman who exudes goodness.

 
At 12/12/2009 3:36 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I have been a friend of Amma's since 1987 when she first came to the West. Since then I have seen the organization grow, and her mission unfold. I have spent many hundreds of hours with her over 22 years, and know hundreds of devotees.
Here is my response to this blog:
You can always find "fuel" for whatever it is you want, in any situation, anywhere.

In other words, the self congratulating attitude of those who would find fault with Amma exposes the person, not Amma.

You are only fooling yourself, and a few people who will read this and miss out on the opportunity to experience one of the most beautiful people I have ever had the privledge of meeting.

I am not saying by any means that Amma's organization is perfect, that devotees have not done stupid things, or anything of the sort.
Far from it!

People are people! They come with all their "stuff" their baggage, and it comes up no matter how sincere they are in their devotion and spiritual path. Peoplebring their issues with them. What a revelation!


I am saying, YOU are using this as an excuse to NOT look into your own heart, mind, and conditioning.

The arrogance of "we used to be like you" sounds so absurd to those outside your "anti cult tirade" group.

There are TONS of misguided, bogus, false teachers and groups, and Ammas is most definitely not one of them.

But that is not the issue. The issue is this:

The ego will continually look for how it can blame "outside" and "others", to avoid looking at itself, and exposing it's insanity, lonliness, fear and darkness.

You can go on and on about Amma, but inside, you know the longing for love, for connection, for joy, for purpose, that is simmering there.
It's not about Amma! Don't you get it?

It's about you.

It is the trick of the ego, and the loser is you.

NO ONE ELSE!

The TRUTH is, the ego is a "Cult of ONE", and it is a lonely place.

Step out into the bright beautiful day, and start looking for the good in others.

For anyone to search for the less than excellent in Amma's organization is like focusing on a bug in a beautiful sunny day.

Too bad you have missed the incredible love that Amma has and continues to share with the world.

Please find that love elsewhere, and fill your heart by giving it away to others.

You will find yourself in a different world.

Underneath the layers is a beautiful being, waiting to come out.

You are only fooling yourself, and you know it deep inside!

Find your path, uncover your heart, find your joy and your purpose, and you will laugh at your attacks as that of a self ritious and angy child.

Wake up and smell the roses.

Life is what you make it
Clean the lense, and find the real world, of beauty, love and grace.

It's waiting for you!

May Love, Compassion and Service arise from within you.

The miracle is waiting for you...
and you don't need Amma or anyone else to find it.

Peace.

 
At 12/12/2009 3:57 AM, Blogger jody radzik said...

So, because I criticize Ammachi for allowing herself to be presented as a living goddess, there is something wrong with me. That wrong is causing me to miss out on the wonderful experience of Amma's love. That's a tidy way to wrap me up in a bag and call me dog crap.

You can do a lot worse than Amma for a big-time guru. Sri Sri, Kalki Bhagavan, and Sai Baba fall well short of Ammachi in terms of apparent sincerity and desire to help those who come to her. However, the human divinity thing is a pox on our third eyes, not an aid in spiritual realization. Amma is way guilty of working this angle. It's what the devotees want, but not necessarily helpful to them other than as a quick mommy-makes-it-feel-better fix. A nice warm bowl of soup can do the same without any of the hoopla.

 
At 4/26/2010 11:34 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whoever you are -- you deserve pity as you are truly a lost soul trying to make sense of the world with blinkers -- you cannot tell when you see a gem from fake diamonds. Knowing AMMA, she would have nothing except UNCONDITIONAL LOVE for lost & troubled souls like you. Everything you have written is a crystal clear reflection of who you are rather than who AMMA is! Your sick & twisted mind is so obvious in your writings and you badly need a counsellor to release the hatred and resentment that you have for everything that is good and pure in this world. Even as you continue with your slander rest assured that AMMA will still forgive you and continue to love you because that is her true nature and secretly that is also what you want --you are dying for AMMA's love and attention.

 
At 4/26/2010 11:48 AM, Blogger jody radzik said...

you are dying for AMMA's love and attention.

Some of the folks at Green Avenue were almost killed by Amma's "love and attention." Get a clue, Sherlock, Amma is running a multi-national business, and she has people in her employ who protect that business like New Jersey mafiosos.

 
At 5/27/2010 9:11 PM, Blogger michael said...

I have known Amma for some 17 years now, and have this to say.
1) The love - Real
2) She has read my thoughts and performed miracles for me
3) Works tirelessly and for the most part practices what she preaches.
HOWEVER
4) She allows herself to be worshiped (boo)
5) She is increasingly in bed with the U.N. and the fake green agenda (double boo)
___________________________________
I very much doubt that Amma gave the orders for these guys to hang out in the bus waiting to commit violence. Does it reflect unfavorably toward the ashram - Yes. They refuse to apologize? boo again!
___________________________________
Amma does do a lot of good in the world, and she definitely has siddhis (perhaps overrated) but she is NOT PERFECT! Amma has been wrong about many things over the years - to cite one, brushing her teeth with coconut husks, which she endorsed for years - it's even in one of her books where she extols the practice, and how it's natural and all that. Turns out she sensitized her teeth (I don't know if any of you out there have used your teeth as a wire stripper) and now advises people not to brush with coconut husk - a very minor example but there are others.
On the other hand, I have seen Amma read peoples innermost thoughts unprompted, and give advice - again one example out of many: A friend of mine had a mother that was psycho, and my friend was on the edge himself. This was not apparent to me, but it was to Amma. My friend had the conviction (for the most part shared by me) that pills were the wrong way to handle it, so he got his mother to stop taking them. His mother had a psychotic break and ended up in the loony bin. My friend went up to Amma for a hug and she told him that he was crazy and needed medication. He said 'I don't want any medication Amma, I'm fine' She answered 'Where's your mother? What happened to her?'. If this were an isolated incident, fine, but when you can go on for hours repeating stories like this, then what?
I'm mad at Amma, truth be known - mad at her for allowing and encouraging (at least passively) this cult of celebrity to form around her - it's getting repulsive - but has she helped me and many others to be better people, I think she has. So there you have it, the truth from both sides. Love to everyone everywhere!

 
At 7/08/2010 5:42 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

so I assume that because some nutty Christian offs an abortion doctor, than Christ is at fault? Jesus. Get a fucking clue. Your type of skepticism is really the new Nazism. "Believe in nothing except my criticism of those you worship!"

 
At 7/23/2010 11:14 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Has anyone actually spent time watching, looking, hearing, and knowing Amma and her organization? I have seen Amma hugging, consoling people for hours at end, almost 15 hours at a stretch without a break, without any concern for her own comfort. I have seen her hugging both homeless and wealthy alike, without any discrimination of any kind. She teaches love for all religions and sects. Nor has any one ever approached me for donation, or offered any kind of membership, or anything that reeks of cult-like adherence. I can imagine how some can feel paranoid like the active Amma basher Bronte Baxter whose writings were intriguing but when I read further were completely illogical. Also, many like her do not have a clear experiential understanding of Hindu spirituality and they can come up with bizzare misunderstandings. However, as a person who has seen Amma over the years, and kept a questioning attitude, I have yet to find a real fatal flaw with her and her organization. They have done an immense amount of work to help alleviate poverty and many social problems. I challenge anyone to try to do something useful before finding faults with someone who has done so much. It is so easy to criticize! :)

 
At 2/09/2011 11:44 PM, Blogger create said...

Being ignorant is not a crime, in fact it is almost natural with many of us; but exposing your ignorance to such an extend is a crime.
I have been seeing AMMA and Her ashram very closely since 1985. I have also seen a lot of Brahmacharis (who follow Celibacy under Her guidance)leaving Her Ashram because of not being able to cop up with the strict discipline of Celibacy. I know some of them very closely who had to leave the Celibacy due to their involvement in love affairs with women. Some of them had the magnanimity to admit their mistake and some others didnt have it and started defaming Her through launching groups like 'examma', etc.
Their ego is so very nasty that they couldnt admit the grave mistakes they did while they were staying with Her as Celibates! instead they critisize Her and Her Ashram activities!...
My friends, it is not strange; as I mentioned earlier, some of us are adept in showing off our ignorance and perversion. There were people during Krisha's period critisizing him. Same with Christ or with any other great soul for that matter...
Dear friend, dont be so proud of your perversion...AMMA might remove it any time!
May AMMA forgive you and your team!

 
At 2/09/2011 11:48 PM, Blogger jody radzik said...

May AMMA forgive you and your team!

There is no team, only myself. And around here, we go right over Amma's head to the being she masquerades as, Ma Kali Dakshineswari.

Why bother with the posers when you can be in love with the Real?

 
At 6/07/2011 5:44 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Om Lokah Samastah Sukino Bhavantu


may all beings be at peace


Jai ma!!

 
At 8/25/2011 2:26 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

As someone who has lived in her ashram for 10 years, I can vouch that She is real. But the ppl around her are in the process.
I left the place when I could not align myself completely to the ego-dectomising environment in her ashram. I believe that it is the false sense of 'I' which obscures Reality, coupled with the fickleness of our attention.
Often, ppl around have behaved violently in similar situations-and a good number of them later leave the movement.

Btw, haven't these residents of Green ave. ever committed any act of violence and immorality? Many of the rich in Delhi are notorious for their callous attitude towards the common man-thus we have BMWs running over ppl sleeping on pavements, unresolved murders, etc.

What goes around, comes around.

 
At 3/03/2012 10:59 AM, Blogger Amma Kali Doll said...

July 2011. Amma Amritanandamayi's spin doctors tried to distance Amma from a sex scandal involving Rishi Taavi Kassila, an Amma organizer who lives and tours with Amma.
Amma Amritanandamayi Taavi Kassila Sex Scandal Cover-up

 
At 6/28/2012 10:49 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Jesus said that offences must come to this world but pray that they do not come through you. Criticizing saintly persons is the most severe of all offences sooner the sinner who committed all kind of sins would be saved than offender to the sadhu.
In Vedas Puranas or any authorized holy scriptures is written that criticizing holy person is the worst offence one can commit.
No one can understand a saint,they are beyond comprehension of the mind their activities behavior is not ordinary.Only saints are authorized to judge others no one else.Saints are ambassadors of God they see the whole picture and God judges through them .Only one who is blessed by God can recognize a saint.It is the greatest blessing of God to allow someone to recognize a saint,so it is not a surprise that many people fail to understand Amma and her activities.God himself protects his saints by creating illusions so that people cannot recognize them and see faults in them, they even themselves make mistakes to taste the faith of disciples. Apostles were with Jesus so close and still had doubts about his divinity but once they were purified and became saints all doubts were gone, only saint can recognize a saint
How can ordinary materialistic fallen souls full of pride and envy recognize a saint
Spiritual path is not easy and the saint is like a surgeon sick people may not understand what kind of surgery he is performing and even get scared it is common.
Any disciple of any saint will have many doubts and will have to pass many tests and fail many times commit mistakes and offences it is unavoidable
It is very rear to have full faith in Guru very very rear even if one could see divinity of his guru still one has to conquer his own mind transcend the mind and that is most difficult, if not his own mind will kill the faith by creating many doubts illusions fears etc
I am not from Amma camp i studied western and eastern mysticism for over 20 years i am only humbly requesting please do not criticize a sadhu or even anyone no matter how bad he or she may look it is sign of pride and arrogance and it is spiritual suicide all scriptures say that
God bless

 
At 6/28/2012 10:53 PM, Blogger jody radzik said...

There is no more divinity in Amma than in any other person alive. That is the truth of the Upanishads.

 
At 6/28/2012 11:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is no more divinity in Amma than in any other person alive. That is the truth of the Upanishads.
Yes but some have realized that divinity and some not and that is the difference
One who is united with God is authorized to be worshiped because it is like worshiping a God he or she is like an ambassador
They have no ego for them is same praise or worship and criticism they are one with God
but whatever we do to them will reach God if we criticize it will reach God, we praise it will reach God there is no difference for them but it makes difference for us

 
At 6/29/2012 8:49 AM, Blogger jody radzik said...

If we are all the Atman, as the Upanishads say, we are ALL one with God at all times. To come to recognize this in yourself is just a turn of perception, not an elevation or ascension to some special state of extra holiness. To believe that Amma is God and that you are not can only occlude your own truth. That is Amma's great sin, to have you believing that she is special at the expense of your own divinity. She makes a mint with that idea, which puts her in the category of con artist as well, not much more than a common criminal, really.

 
At 6/29/2012 3:58 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

yes we are all atmas
some atmas are free from illusions and are called Jiva mukta and some are under illusion jiva bandha - fallen souls who are not free from bodily conception of life and who identifies with their bodies and mind.
Worship of Guru is authorized by scripture and sadhus.In this world people worship themselves and they make own belly or genitals as their God by constantly serving them.Belly worshipers cannot understand the pure authorized worship of sri Guru and envy Him.Those genital worshipers even try to understand advaita philosophy read Vedas or Purana and dare to criticize saints who are free from all bodily conception of life and their only mission is to help fallen souls who are constantly roaming in the cycle of birth and death and being under illusion thinking themselves to be the body I am a man i am a woman i am a dog and so on
Jiva muktas are like a mirror we see reflection of our own qualities in them.No wonder we are envious of them because we are full of desire for name fame and adoration we want to be worshiped like a God so we cannot tolerate people worship them, every condition soul has desire for adoration and cannot stand others being worshiped.

 
At 6/29/2012 4:02 PM, Blogger jody radzik said...

Your Hindu folk theory does not trump the truth of the Upanishads. Amma is a person like the rest of us. She eats, and she poops, and she is the Atman just like you and I. She is not more, or less, of the Atman. The Atman is the same in her as it is in the rest of us. The idea that she is more God or specially divine because she is enlightened is superstitious nonsense, a term that describes just about everything you've said so far.

 
At 6/30/2012 9:02 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

In the Vaedas it is said to those who commit offences spiritual things appear to be material, they loos faith and knowledge and become demoniac
in the West people do not know the difference between offences and sins ( aparadha and pap) so they very quick to commit many offences false judgments being ignorant of severe consequences
Yes in this age there are many false gurus cheaters thousands of them no doubt about it there are false coins because there are true coins
just imagine in a box of thousand fake coins there is one true coin and they look alike how can we recognize naturally we will consider all of them fake
How can sens enjoyer who worship own belly as God recognize a saint,CNN media brain washed people who grew up on illusions of Hollywood movies dare to make statements such as vampire sucking energy,feeding on others energy during darshans etc it is as stupid as it can get so silly not mature
Vedas says people who think they are the body not a spirit soul are no better than an ass. Ass like people can not comprehend transcendental behavior of a saint
Many Sufi masters were killed by flesh eating so called orthodox Muslim priests who could not understand their activities
same Christians saints were prosecuted by sense enjoyers
there are many fakes gurus, demons who pose as a saints always been like this but also always there were real saints in the past present and will be in future
true saint is not someone who will give you material comfort, easy life,money,
but he will take everything from you and give you nothing but pain like a good surgeon,operation is not sweet but it is needed it may look cruel but it is his mercy
for sick egoistic proud fallen soul who thinks to be someone very important and knowledgeable no wonder many so called disciples or followers are going away disappointed because they did not come to serve the Guru but to enjoy the Guru simply they could not take the heat of the battle
to fall is not an offence it is a part of process we learn and become even stronger and more experienced but to criticize Guru or a saint is great offence
Ideal disciple is harder to find than ideal Guru there are more ideal saints than ideal seekers

 
At 7/06/2012 4:35 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Whether Amma is enlightened or not - nobody will get that knowledge through literature. A true guru will not reveal that knowledge to everybody. A true guru will reveal the knowledge only to his/her disciple. The purpose of that disclosure is only to create trust for the disciple. I am not a disciple of Amma. I am a disciple to another Guru. Whoever Guru you go after you will encounter the same question. Is this Guru enlightened? It takes lot of time to develop trust between Guru and disciple. If disciple puts one feet forward Guru puts 100 feet towards you. Even for Amma there are not many disciples. All those people around her are seekers. Even those around her who got mantra from her are not completely protected as a guru does. A true guru - disciple relation is rare. If you doubt or keep half heartedness as a disciple you are wasting your life and efforts.

 

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