Wikiomitting Siddha Yoga Truths
File under: Gurubusting and The Siddhi of PR
Guruphiliac reader/list member Stuart Resnick decided to check the Wikipedia entry for Siddha Yoga, where he discovered a wicked omission:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddha_YogaIt appears Gurumayi is still trying to extricate herself from that unholy mess of guru worship she created for herself not too long ago. It's another example of "inner" tradition versus "outer." They use the outer to pull you in, and then go all inner on you when they think they've got you locked into their
Siddha Yoga (aka SYDA) promotes obedience and worship of the guru (originally Swami Muktananda, now Gurumayi). I was amazed to see that under the sections called "Tenets" and "Practices," there's no mention of worship of the guru, obedience to the guru, and belief in the guru's special state, status and power!
It's incredibly dishonest. I don't mind a subjective spin, people can have their own opinions about whether guru worship is good or bad. But no sane person who spent any time with this organization could believe that its tenets and practices don't center on believing the guru has special status, power, and mind-state.
Kalki Bhagavan uses the same subterfuge. He keeps the declarations of his Godhood to a minimum when the rich Westerners are around. But once he's successfully pulled you in to his destructive cult... WHAM! He hits you with this nonsense.
posted by guruphiliac @ 6:34 PM
28 Comments:
I spent a small amount of time with SYDA -- nothing like Stuart's experience -- and the guru-worship thing seemed pretty obvious and blatant to me. I remember an intensive where I was looking out the window on a break and saw that it was snowing (very prettily), and the old-timer next to me made a comment expressing gratitude that Gurumayi had sent the snow. She wasn't kidding.
This was maybe ten years ago.
"and the old-timer next to me made a comment expressing gratitude that Gurumayi had sent the snow."
....How do you know she didn't.?
Since it's rather unproveable.
Ah, the weird world of siddha yoga. What can I compare it to? Maybe a Disneyland where Daisy Duck is in charge and everything is her "grace". Get a raise at the office (where you've put in hours of overtime)? Guru's grace! Get hit by a trolley? Guru's grace (something much WORSE could have happened if that trolley hadn't gotten you first). Got a new Visa card in the mail to pay for the " Maha Shakti Intensive"? Guru's Grace. Can't pay your Visa bill? Guru's Grace (as long as you can still cough up the dakshina). Find a husband/lover/wife? Guru's Grace. Get divorced? Guru's Grace (better off without that person who was "holding your sadhana back"). The Guru can read your mind, you know..she knows EVERYTHING you are thinking.."the guru is 'god'; every word from her mouth is a mantra"...just keep on chanting that guru gita and Daisy Duck will take care of the rest.
anon.
Interesting. The same thing seems to be happening with guru Andrew Cohen, who all along has openly been revered, worshipped and obeyed by His students for His perfect enlightenment.
Now he's trying to appear to be more in the background for all the hundreds of newbies coming.
(see this article)
"Andrew's Ever Changing FACE"
Since it's rather unproveable.
I say my dog made it snow that day. Try to disprove that.
>>...just keep on chanting that guru gita and Daisy Duck will take care of the rest.<<
LOL, now I can't get this picture of Daisy Duck in red robes quacking along to "Sri Krishna Govinda Hare Murari" out of my mind...
In that old Rodarmor tell-all article about SY and Baker Roshi published in the 80s, there was a great line in a sidebar that went something like this: "Beware the path that says if you are constipated it's Guru's Grace...if you are cured of it it's Guru's Grace...and if you then get diarrhea it's Guru's Grace."
In other words, as Sri Guru Gita does not say but ought to, "The root of lubrication is the guru's grease."
Om Shanty.
....How do you know she didn't.?
Since it's rather unproveable.
Given the spiritual state of the SYDAs I met during that period, let's just say that I'm quite comfortable doubting her powers.
"just keep on chanting that guru gita and Daisy Duck will take care of the rest."
Perhaps not in SYDA, but guru yoga is a valid path. What you point to here is the essence
of guru yoga. There is certain work the devotee can do for themselves and there is certain work that the guru must take care of. Radical reliance
on the guru is not a path for the magical thinkers
and bliss bunnies.
>>>"Perhaps not in SYDA, but guru yoga is a valid path. What you point to here is the essence
of guru yoga. There is certain work the devotee can do for themselves and there is certain work that the guru must take care of. Radical reliance
on the guru is not a path for the magical thinkers
and bliss bunnies.
Matthew, i totally agree! that's what makes syda even worse..(and all of the other "corruptions" of guru yoga)...maybe syda is the "paint by numbers" version of guru yoga...I mean, you still get a kind of "painting" out of it but it's not quite the same as the "real thing". So..a word to the wise: be careful who you "surrender" to...do the 12 year check-out-the-teacher thing..and save yourself alot of tsuris.
anon.
> Radical reliance on the guru is
> not a path for the magical
> thinkers and bliss bunnies.
Most people have a radical reliance on their own understanding. Meditation practice for me has involved facing the fact that at the very core of things is a mystery beyond my understanding.
The SYDA worshippers share with me this amazing recognition of something beyond my personal understanding. Where we depart is that they believe that their guru DOES understand everything perfectly.
Tarzan doesn't let go of one vine till he grabs the next one; maybe for many people, the only way they'll even consider the limits of their own understanding is to believe that some God, Guru, or Magical Spirit DOES have perfect infinite understanding. That's a different matter than just accepting the mystery as a mystery.
The problems that arise from believing in a guru's perfect wisdom, power, and goodness are similar to the problems that arise from believing in my own perfect understanding etc etc. Or it's like going beyond personal selfishness and embracing group loyalty. It leads to remarkable acts of charity and heroism, balanced by the worst aspects of group-think.
Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
kalki uses the same subterfuge. He keeps the declarations of his Godhood to a minimum when the rich Westerners are around. But once he's successfully pulled you in to his destructive cult... WHAM! He hits you with this nonsense."
When I was going to deeksha a year and half ago, I specifically asked the big Deeksha Man if there was any guru worship stuff attached to it, and I was told no, not all all. The kalki is just like a friend and considers himself to be a technician,i.e. transmitter of a special energy. So i was really surprised to hear about his self proclaimed avatar status and all the other things that are starting to come out. I wonder if these deeksha givers really didn't know, or they were trying to keep that from their followers so people would still keep coming. I started realizing what was up when one of the invited deekshaites layed down in front of a pic of the kalki before deeksha services began and told people that a certain photo of the kalki drips honey.
Be careful that you are not surrendering to someone who is a psychic vampire. Being a guru is the perfect occupation for a vampire.
This condition is real and does exist.
For a powerful and informative book, get and read 'The Vampire, Dracula and Incest' by Daniel Lapin, Gargoyle Publishers, 1995
Recently I had the good fortune to attend a talk given by Dr Lapin. I expected merely an interesting evening. What floored me was a sense of recognition--Lapin described situations that echoed so many cult survivor reports.
One thing he mentioned in the talk but not so much in his book were that
1)in dissociation its not at all unusual for perceptual changes
to occur. You can feel like your visual field is being narrowed, you may lose access to peripheral vision. You
can feel like you're seeing things through a haze, through fog. You may feel oddly dazzled or as though your hearing
is off cue, or that the situation seems 'at a distance' even though you're right in it.
(Using Lapin's information, I can remember listening to my father talking on and on, and how bored I was (was I actually scared and unable to admit it?) and how I would force myself to stay awake and keep my eyes open, even though my lids were drooping.)
2) Two, Lapin decribed a process called thralldom. You have internalized predatory, ego driven material from your perpetrator and if you've been massively assaulted, you go into shock and take in a lot of that material, at the expense of your own normal personality development. Once that stuff is inside you, you may respond by functioning as a thrall. You may find yourself aware that what you are doing is wrong, against your own best interests and even hurtful to others, but this awareness does not empower you to fight back or leave, because you are regressed to powerless childhood.
People who are put into trance and told to meditate on a guru and internalize his or her image may become vulnerable to this kind of penetration. Some may end up functioning as thralls, others may not. The outcome depends on whether one has a pre-existing vulnerablity---and many seekers do.
These people can induce dissociative trance and if they operate as gurus, con you into thinking you're experiencing siddhis, when in fact, you're being tranced out and turned into an energy donor.
This is more likely to happen to seekers who are already wounded from past trauma and whose boundaries are compromised.
Worse, aspects of asian spirituality can be used to induce cognitive confusion by stating that standards of good vs evil, harm vs help are irrelevant in the realm of the Absolute.
Vampires need to operate in darkness and in fog. The most skillful of them induce dissociation and pervert valid spiritual traditions to induce brain-fog, and make it seem that concern for ethics is for wimps and babies.
Various manifestations of 'there are no victims only volunteers' ideology also empowers vampires and shames into silence those already predisposed to feel shame and who are easily preyed on and then just as easily silenced when they try to speak up.
This condition is real and does exist.
Only for those which a penchant for tinfoil hats.
Otherwise, this is just as much a bunch of nonsense as the guru is God gambit.
For what it's worth, I was just informed by someone in the know that the kalki actually does not present himself in the same way to Hindus as to westerners. Since the 'I am god' image is part of Hindu culture, he will say that to them, but not to westerners since that stuff generally doesn't fly with us.
I was also told that he lives very simply. Does anyone know if this is true?
Now i need to go buy some garlic. There may ne some vampires lurking.
"Two, Lapin decribed a process called thralldom. You have internalized predatory, ego driven material from your perpetrator and if you've been massively assaulted, you go into shock and take in a lot of that material, at the expense of your own normal personality development."
Jody, why is this so hard to believe? Please explain. Predatory people do exist and can cause dissociation if one's boundaries have already been violated previously.
why is this so hard to believe?
There is no such thing as energy vampirism in regards to this statement:
when in fact, you're being tranced out and turned into an energy donor.
That's unmitigated mystifanatical bullshit.
I can allow for the existence of psychological vampires, folks who feel the need to have power over others to feel good about themselves, but psychic vampires?
That's clearly tinfoil hat territory and the ken of deluded individuals.
Durga said...I was also told that he lives very simply. Does anyone know if this is true?
...................
Hitler lived simply too and lots of people thought he was a sweetheart. Fuck kracki in his very simple.
durga: I was also told that he lives very simply. Does anyone know if this is true?
well.... what is simple for one, isn't for others....
he has tons of cars, mercedes, luxury 4x4s, etc....
lves in a huge property with 2 meters high walls,... full of security around... no one is alowed without a permiss, that is almost impossible to get, unless u are a vip, he has servants around him, that sleep at his door 24 hours a day,... the dasas.
His palace has an amazing garden, that uses sooooo much water to keep the grass alive in that desertic area.... there are around 10 huge buildings in that only fenced campus where he lives, each with 8 huge rooms, where in the beggining stayed the participants of the 21 days p. and now only a few dasas live there, and the rest are VIP's from around the world who are INVITED to do the process, individually.
Then there are other campuses,... very simple,... huge huts for indians, who sleep in the floor, and eat in the floor. around 50 people in each hut.
and the westerns are placed in another campus, that looks just like a huge jail. each room sleep 12. yeah... is kind of simple..... for those who are not kracki, and VIPs
the thing about worshiping kr.'s pict... is very subtel.
They say in one side that u shall personalize your God, and that u don't need to worship Kr. because Kr, acts through their gods, like if the gods are at the service of Kracki, u see?
on the other side, there are the darshans, where u sit for more than one hour, singing or listening to songs for K&Amma, in front of a scenary, full of flowers and red carpet, and a trone for"the Lord" as the dasas call him. Then after one hour he arrives, all the dasas postrate to him, and tell u to do the same, and do puja to him.
then he goes, and again u have to sing endless mantras to Kracki.
So if this is not worshiping... u tell me.
An interesting thing, is that VIPS behave totally different. They are treated of course as VIPS, and they are not told to postrate or all that, they can come just few minutes Kr. comes, and can leave just after him. They have personal dharsan with Kr. where they talk, while the people who pay the 5610 $ only see him once all togheter(some times 500 people) and Kr. is in silence.
There are many honey and curcuma "miracles".. is true. I don't understand this thing... could be Kracki's sidhis, or the devotee's love that can make that happen... and so what?
Wow, valentina, thanks for the description! I hadn't heard all that beforel. I was speaking with someone who I think is in kracki's inner circle of deeksha givers, and he has swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker, so of course his perspective will be slightly different. He mentioned, when we were talking, that Kracki's house is simple, so i was curious, since he has so much money coming in. I had no idea about the tons of cars, 10 buildings, etc... I am really surprised to hear that the people who come to do the 21 day program stay in a jail like dorm in communal rooms. That price should pay for a luxury condo.
About Kracki worship, i was told something like the kracki lets you think of him however you want, as a friend, a guru, a teacher etc...
It is totally hypocritical, though, IMO, to tell people they can choose to see you as a friend and then make it obligatory to do puja and darshan for 2 hours. And what is with the VIPs? who are these special people? Madonna and paris Hilton?
(About your response in the other post- yeah, sometimes important breakthroughs come after a major disillusionment. I've been thru a few myself.)
Valentina, i found esania's website. Seems his main focus is spirituality and naturopathic healing. I didn't read all of the info, but at least he is not suggesting deeksha will cure all diseases. He has links to articles by kalki, Andrew Cohen and Mikhail gorbachev on his site. Is trying to promote protection of environment. All in all, not so bad.
so, check in here:
http://www.poreldespertar.com/kosmichealing.htm
KOSMIC HEALING:
Yo Soy la ausencia de todo camino
Y el que viene a abrazar todos los caminos.
Yo soy el que ha hecho las escrituras
Y el que ahora te entrega la revelación.
Ahora estoy en ti para que sólo te sigas a ti mismo
O a aquel que tú decidas seguir.
Mis ojos verán por ti
Tus manos tocarán por mí.
Si me has buscado y no me has encontrado
Si me has encontrado pero no me has entendido
Ahora emerjo con fuerza en tu corazón
Celebrando nuestra eterna unión.
-..................................
Some time ago, he would sign this text with Esania.
"Some time ago, he would sign this text with Esania."
You mean he used used to be grandiose but has toned it down some?
Good I'm not in Argentina, I'd probably be suckered into it cause of his cute smile and curly black hair.
yes, he is actually a nice guy.
and awakes some kind of "compassion" since he has some kind of discapacity.
But he has lost the north.
He was convinced of being same as Kracki, I thik he identifyied himsel fwith Kr. It must be some kind of personality dissorder. Yes, by posting that text next to his picture and signing "E...",... there is some kind of grandiosity about it. Though he is not looking after becoming millionaire,... but definetly he wants to be a guru. and has these kind of ideas about transforming humankind
But he is a smart guy, with nice heart despite all that.
Read also in his site, what he says about how was born K.H.
There are all kind of nonsense, about this his last encarnation, his desire to create a method that impulses massive enlightement, bla, bla bla...
And under "different levels of K.H. " u can see that he also ,akes you experience the conciousness of Buddha, of jesus.... He copied Kracki.
Won't go much further.... I don't think so.... He must have been insecure about claiming all that nonsense about "I am He who has come to liberate u....! And probably, he decided that playing a bit more humble would pass better.....
hey durga, i have a present for you, an e-book about Esania's K.H, where you can see how he still signs that kind of mahavakyas of himself.
And even greater: At some point at a footpage he writes:
Esania,
Nucleo de Dios
Unidad Multidimensional sin espacio ni tiempo
for english speaking:
Esania,
God's Nucleus,
Multidymensional Unity out of space and time
http://www.poreldespertar.com/biblioteca/ebook_kosmic_healing.pdf
I am new to this culture. Some of you seem pro-Siddha Yoga and some seem very very negative and feel abused. Where does this path fall on the "cult" spectrum?
siddha yoga is fake
I have been involved with SYDA for over 40 years. I met both Gurumayi Chidvilasananda and her predecessor, Baba Muktananda. I was the victim of a horrendous childhood and came to the Guru with a twisted and damaged psyche. It didn't take me long to realize this was a true path.
I want to state I never felt like I was supposed to worship the Guru.
I am going to list a few of the countless miracles I've experienced and the massive healing I have experienced.
My alcoholism of 20 years was dissolved with no effort on my part. I now dislike the way alcohol makes me feel.
I used to experience deep, black depressions. I was either in the throes of blackness or clawing my way out of the pit. One day while reading an SYDA correspondence a bolt of white lightning leapt off the page, into my heart, and shattered a rock hard blackness into pieces. Behind the black was a brilliant white light. I never suffered from this emotional pain again.
My lifelong rage, a result my upbringing, simply vanished.
I was meditating after I met Baba when suddenly a lake of liquid gold poured into my brain. It was all encompassing and exhilarating beyond description. Clearly, to me, this was the Kundalini. A true Guru awakens the Kundalini that purifies the seeker of "impurities".
I once experienced a peace “that passed all understanding”. I had thought of peace as a passive state of non-pain and contentment. This was an active and alive peace.
The Guru has frequently spoken to me telepathically.
My heart, where once resided a pit of pain, now overflows with love and Joy.
Many times I have fallen into a brilliant white light losing all sense of self, time, and the world. This state is perfect and without form. I believe it to be God.
My journey on this path has been filled with miracles. The experiences Elizabeth Gilbert describes in her book "Eat, Pray, Love" are familiar to me.
The ashram in South Fallsburg is a busy, dynamic place; Siddha Yoga is alive and well.
There are many people who have met the Guru who were not ready for her truth. Some have joined in efforts to discredit Siddha Yoga.
All I can say is they don't get it.
I am no fool. I have a postgraduate degree. I am an intellectual and a skeptic at heart. Everything unfamiliar to me must prove it is for real. Both Siddha Yoga and the Guru have proven themselves to me. I am a converted atheist and a true believer.
The Guru is the living embodiment of God's grace on Earth.
Yes. My memory of Gurumayi when I was with her was she told seekers to turn within, go to your heart and roam, God dwells within you as you, etc. I never felt she asked me to worship her. This is a path for the ordinary person to learn the truth about themselves, mostly through meditation.
I have never felt that I was asked to violate my boundaries. The basis of siddha yoga, kashmir shaivism, is an ancient philosophy worth studying. I have become a more peaceful, happier version of myself meditating and contemplating truths presented therein.
If a person chooses to worship the Guru it is by his or her own choice. It is not a necessary part of the path. We are encouraged to seek our own experiences and come to our own conclusions, discover our own answers to our questions.
I have only felt gratitude for what Siddha yoga has offered me. No harm was ever done.
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