Friday, July 06, 2007

Ammachi: Hindu Nazi

File under: Amma All-Over-The-Planet


The hidden side of the "hugging saint" just gets uglier and uglier.

Here's a video of Ammachi's best friends in India, the RSS. They're the ones who killed Gandhi, hence that little Gandhi trashing by Amma's swami earlier this week. They are about as close to Nazi fascists as you can be without saying "ya" and "nein".

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28 Comments:

At 7/06/2007 3:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

We aren't exactly sure how strong Amma's ties to the RSS are. Perhaps some more investigation is in order before she is declared a Hindu Nazi. Though, if the ties were strong...we'd probably never know, because that would be a heavily guarded secret and anyone who knew anything would be afraid to talk anyway. So, what's the answer?

 
At 7/06/2007 3:44 PM, Blogger jody said...

So, what's the answer?

It's right here:

Paul Zachariah, a writer in both Malayalam (local language of Kerala) and English, slammed Amma's movement, arguing that a personality cult was not healthy.

He said her organisation's close links to the Hindu radical groups such as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS, National Volunteer Corps) was a source of worry, a view backed by columnist Bhaskar, but denied by officials of Amma's organisation.

"It is a fact that the RSS has taken over the organisation lock, stock and barrel. She is proving to be, knowingly or unknowingly, dangerous political material. These political parties will use her at some point of time for their ends.

"It is only when the RSS took over the organisation that the upper caste Hindus' acceptance came," he told AFP.


Also, I have it from a person who wishes to remain anonymous who is well inside the Ammachi org.

 
At 7/06/2007 11:15 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

If any of this is true, then Amma and Condi Rice are well suited to pose alongside each other in a well staged photo op session.

Each female representing the far right agendas of their own nation state. Soon to be (if NWO agendas hold true), one big happy globalists far right party.

No mantra can wrap its mind around this picture.

Jody, if this is true, you have done and enormous service to worldwide readership who hold humanity at its forefront.

Thank you.

I once heard someone share that they thought these east meets west guru movements were nothing more than mind control projects. Insert them into the western psyche and see what happens.

 
At 7/07/2007 6:43 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The correct spelling for the German word for 'yes' is 'ja'.

 
At 7/07/2007 7:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

RSS cannot be compared with nazis. Their goal of "Hindu Nationalism" is most misunderstood. Their Hinduism is not against other religions. In RSS terms "Hindu" is not one who is born as Hindu, but one who considers India his/her motherland. All patriotic Indians, whether they belong to Islam or Christianity or any other religion are thus "Hindus".

Their humanitarian services are well known in India. Whenever there is any natural calamity in India, you can see RSS members working tirelessly without any discrimination of caste or creed. It is the communist controlled media of India that has defamed RSS.

Moreover, it is wrong to say that Nathuram Godse, the assassin of Mahatma Gandhi was from the RSS. Yes, at one time he used to be a member of RSS but later he was expelled from RSS because of his anti-party activities. He was not a RSS member when he killed Gandhi. In fact, then RSS chief had categorically condemned Gandhi's assassination as the most unfortunate event.

 
At 7/07/2007 11:45 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"I once heard someone share that they thought these east meets west guru movements were nothing more than mind control projects. Insert them into the western psyche and see what happens."

That is absolutely what they are. Christianity is not able to appeal to enough of the masses to keep them subdued, so something must fill the gap. Crystals, psychics, "create your own reality", UFOs, whatever it takes.

The best example of this is the fact that Paul N. Temple, a Exxon billionaire, participates in the group that funds the National Prayer Breakfast AND is on the board of the Institute of Noetic Sciences, which pushes all the Ramtha/The Secret crap. His wife runs the "A Course In Miracles" DIY cult franchise.

http://www.noetic.org/about/board.cfm

Paul N. Temple, Chairman Emeritus, is a co-founder of the Institute of Noetic Sciences. He has been a member of the institute board of directors since 1973 and served as its chairman from 1983 to 1999. He is a businessman, investor and a graduate of Princeton University and Harvard Law School. He and Diane Temple are founders of the Temple Awards for Creative Altruism, administered by the institute.

(AMAZING LA Times article on the Fellowship Foundation and National Prayer Breakfast)

http://www.toobeautiful.org/lat_020927.html



Located on a quiet residential street, the $4.4-million estate called Cedars sits at the highest point of the Potomac River, with spectacular views of Washington beyond the pool and tennis courts. It is owned by the Fellowship, the nonpartisan Christian group that sponsors the National Prayer Breakfast. While the annual breakfast is a widely known event attended by a succession of U.S. presidents and foreign dignitaries, the Fellowship's part in the breakfast is low-key. Most attendees think the event is sponsored by Congress or even the president. Likewise, the Fellowship's role in diplomacy and current events has remained in the shadows. That's the way the organization wants it, for philosophical and practical reasons.
...A Los Angeles Times review of the Fellowship's archives, which are kept at the Billy Graham Center at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Ill., and an examination of documents obtained from several presidential libraries reveals an organization that has had extraordinary access and significant influence on foreign affairs for the last 50 years. Eight members of Congress, including Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.), live in a grand house on Capitol Hill, which is owned by a sister organization of the Fellowship. The house, which is registered as a church, routinely hosts gatherings for lawmakers and ambassadors. Members of Congress have traveled around the world on the Fellowship's behalf, sometimes mixing matters of state with religion. The Fellowship was a behind-the-scenes player at the Camp David Middle East accords in 1978, working with President Jimmy Carter to issue a worldwide call to prayer with Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian President Anwar Sadat. During the Cold War, it helped finance an anti-communism propaganda film endorsed by the CIA and used by the Pentagon overseas.
... Michael Jackson's visit came about as a result of a call from "a friend from the White House," Coe said. The call came from David Kuo, deputy director of the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, who helped put together the United We Stand concert. When Kuo learned that Jackson needed a place to stay, he thought of Cedars. "It's a private unknown place that offers anonymity in a peaceful environment," he said. "Part of the whole Fellowship belief is you can help people who are down and out by helping people who are up and out."

...The Fellowship also has brought controversial figures to Washington, where they have met with U.S. officials either at the prayer breakfast or other venues. Among them are former Salvadoran Gen. Carlos Eugenio Vides Casanova, who in July was found liable by a civil jury in Florida for the torture of thousands of civilians in the 1980s. He was invited to the 1984 prayer breakfast, along with Gen. Gustavo Alvarez Martinez, then the head of the Honduran armed forces. Alvarez, later linked to the CIA and a secret death squad, became an evangelical missionary before he was assassinated in 1989.
...The Fellowship does not solicit money. A handful of wealthy backers, including Detroit lawyer and GOP donor Michael Timmis, Denver oilman Jerome A. Lewis and former Maryland investor Paul N. Temple, support the Fellowship with personal contributions. Private foundations they control also contribute hundreds of thousands yearly to the International Foundation, tax records show.

...Intimate prayer groups begun by the Fellowship still meet regularly and privately, at the House of Representatives, Senate and throughout federal agencies in Washington. President Eisenhower, persuaded by his campaign manager, became the first U.S. president to attend a prayer breakfast in 1953--part of what the Senate chaplain at the time called a "Return-to-God Movement." Every president since has made an appearance at least once, turning the breakfast into a worldwide attraction for the prayerful and political alike.
...A four-story townhouse on C Street, two blocks from the Capitol, is owned by a sister organization of the Fellowship, and is registered with the IRS and the District of Columbia as a church. It pays no taxes. Yet eight members of Congress live there. "We sort of don't talk to the press about the house," said Rep. Bart Stupak (D-Mich.), who lives there. The 8,000-square-foot detached townhouse has 12 bedrooms, nine bathrooms, five living rooms (including one with a big-screen TV), four dining rooms, three offices, a kitchen--and a small chapel. "The C Street property is a church," said Chip Grange, an attorney for the Fellowship. "It is zoned as a church. There are prayer meetings, fellowship meetings, evangelical meetings," he said. "Our mission field is Capitol Hill." But at least one member of Congress who lives there, Rep. Michael F. Doyle (D-Pa.), said he didn't know the property was registered as a church. Doyle would not comment further. "I don't discuss my personal living arrangements with the media," he said. Rep. Zach Wamp (R-Tenn.), another townhouse occupant, told Associated Press in 2000 that the house was the most popular place on the Hill to watch NCAA basketball, eat takeout Chinese food and discuss public policy. The story did not mention the Fellowship. "That's my own life and my own relationships," Wamp told The Times.

 
At 7/07/2007 9:52 PM, Blogger nublet said...

Three points...

Calling Ammachi a nazi because a party of rabid Indian Nationalists think she will lend mojo to their movement is as compelling a move as calling Terri Schiavo a NeoConservative hack because of the way the Christian right milked her image to bolster their idea of a "mission".

There has never been a time in the twenty years I have been seeing her in Amritapuri when both the richest and the poorest did not have access to her.

As for advaitan content in Amma's output, which you refute baselessly, it is refined and is there for the taking for someone with a willingness to try going a little deeper than the parade of physical phenomena at a california program. Perhaps you have heard of this interesting new trend - its called "multitasking". Among those who feel drawn to her, some benefit by witnessing Amma's way with everyone, some by doing a few dishes or loads of other seva, some by jnana and self-inquiry, some by going for darshan, some by kirtan/bhajan, some by studying Shankaracarya. True a few odd adults really go for those regrettable dolls and other unfortunate expressions of gurumania. (I cringe too - What to do?) There is an avenue for many differing kinds of souls into themselves within her milieu - but there may be a special challenge in store for a certain strain of exceptionally cocky neo-advaitan jocks - to actually drop the prejudice for a few moments and be open to the possibility of feeling something real.

The unimpeachable advaitan Ramana Maharshi had an utterly unfettered devotional streak that many modern non-dualists would presumably find quite embarrassing. Do I need to post some of this or are you already aware? If Ramana was oft referenced for his weeping and crawling over the stony paths up arunachala - how cool would it be today to go about dropping his name? Same Sage, different framing...possibly decidedly uncool.
I have heard from one who witnessed it that Niasrgadatta Maharaj himself absolutely loved to host and lead a solid session of ecstatic kirtan. This side of him was purposefully not an element in I AM THAT. Not to imply an agenda or anything.

I have heard it said that knowledge without devotion is like eating stones, but I imagine you can manage to find it right tasty with enough blood in your mouth.

 
At 7/07/2007 10:06 PM, Blogger jody said...

Calling Ammachi a nazi because a party of rabid Indian Nationalists think she will lend mojo to their movement is as compelling a move as calling Terri Schiavo a NeoConservative hack because of the way the Christian right milked her image to bolster their idea of a "mission".

So you're calling Amma a mindless vegetable and pawn of the RSS?

I think she's a hidden supporter of their policies. Her alliance with the VHP and BJP supports this view.

As for advaitan content in Amma's output, which you refute baselessly, it is refined and is there for the taking for someone with a willingness to try going a little deeper than the parade of physical phenomena at a california program

You mean for someone who is willing to watch her rape the truths of Vedanta by allowing herself to be seen as especially divine. She may as well be taking a big, fat dump on the Upanishads, the duped pseudo-vedantins in her satsang notwithstanding.

The unimpeachable advaitan Ramana Maharshi had an utterly unfettered devotional streak that many modern non-dualists would presumably find quite embarrassing

Nobody is down on devotion around here, oh one who projects their own misapprehension of what I'm saying. Devotion is fine, superstitious nonsense and occluding expectations about self-realization are not.

 
At 7/08/2007 8:53 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Paul Zachariah, a writer in both Malayalam (local language of Kerala) and English, slammed Amma's movement, arguing that a personality cult was not healthy. He said her organisation's close links to the Hindu radical groups such as the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS, National Volunteer Corps) was a source of worry, a view backed by columnist Bhaskar, but denied by officials of Amma's organisation.

So, if someone gets it into print, it must be true?

 
At 7/08/2007 1:20 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is going on? Look at this. They are involving themselves with military left and right.

http://ashramdiary.blogspot.com/2007/07/iam-in-kupwara.html

 
At 7/08/2007 3:04 PM, Blogger jody said...

So, if someone gets it into print, it must be true?

It certainly isn't inconceivable.

 
At 7/10/2007 6:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

So she should support missionaries who are causing harm to India by their conversions or maybe the Jihadi types. Grow up Jody! You are pathetic.

 
At 7/10/2007 7:12 AM, Blogger jody said...

So she should support missionaries who are causing harm to India by their conversions or maybe the Jihadi types.

False dichotomy noted. She should come clean to the fact that she's a Hindu Jerry Falwell.

Grow up Jody!

I'm afraid it's too late for that.

You are pathetic.

There's no argument from me about that. I'm at least the equal in pathos to the Kool-Aid drinking losers who believe Amma to be the second coming of Jesus Christ.

 
At 7/10/2007 7:21 AM, Blogger Stuart said...

nublet said:
> The unimpeachable advaitan
> Ramana Maharshi [snip]

If you're interested in non-dual truth, best to open your eyes to what's right in front of you. What do see right now? What do you hear? What are you doing?

That's what's called "non-dual truth." It's got nothing to do with some long-dead Indian guy!

Stuart
http://home.comcast.net/~sresnick2/socalled.htm
http://stuart-randomthoughts.blogspot.com/

 
At 7/11/2007 1:32 PM, Anonymous Jim Butler said...

It certainly isn't inconceivable.

Now that's one powerful defense of the link underlying your premise. "Amma: Not inconceivably a Hindu Nazi." What a stinging indictment!

 
At 7/11/2007 1:47 PM, Blogger jody said...

What a stinging indictment!

With the Green Avenue incident now out in the open, I think we can upgrade "not inconceivable" to "very likely."

 
At 7/11/2007 2:01 PM, Anonymous Jim Butler said...

With the Green Avenue incident now out in the open, I think we can upgrade "not inconceivable" to "very likely."

How does that follow? Only massive RSS infiltration could explain an act of goon-hood?

 
At 7/11/2007 2:11 PM, Blogger jody said...

How does that follow?

If she's allowing the folks who run her ashrams to call in crowbar-wielding goons, she's likely in bed with the sort of folk that make up these squads.

 
At 7/11/2007 3:10 PM, Anonymous Jim Butler said...

If she's allowing the folks who run her ashrams to call in crowbar-wielding goons, she's likely in bed with the sort of folk that make up these squads.

Um... it's not possible that some Amma devotees are capable of fucking up without her explicit blessing?

 
At 7/11/2007 3:21 PM, Blogger jody said...

Um... it's not possible that some Amma devotees are capable of fucking up without her explicit blessing?

Well, anything's possible.

At the very best, Ammachi and her managers have made a horrible mistake to allow these folks to live in her ashram while she continues to remain silent in the wake of these criminal acts which were carried out in her name.

The bottom line is that she is the bottom line. As far as I know, absolutely nothing has been done to rectify or otherwise compensate the victims of this act of thuggery.

At worst, such is now standard operating procedure in her org and she is the foaming-at-the-mouth nationalist she appears to be.

 
At 7/11/2007 3:48 PM, Anonymous Jim Butler said...

I kind of doubt that the Green Street assaults, as reported, are standard operating procedure for Amma's org. If you say over-the-top things like that, you shouldn't be surprised if some people tend to discount everything else you say. And that's a pity, because these allegations are a serious matter.

 
At 7/11/2007 3:53 PM, Blogger jody said...

If you say over-the-top things like that, you shouldn't be surprised if some people tend to discount everything else you say.

"Over-the-top" is in the eye of the reader. There's plenty of folks who are telling me this is long overdue, and not over-the-top by any means.

It's turning out that Amma, or at least her organization, has a long and deep shadow that's only now getting exposed. Just because she puts on a good show doesn't mean she's not a diva bitch when she gets off the stage.

 
At 7/12/2007 11:43 AM, Anonymous Jim Butler said...

Re "over-the-top", Godwin's Law applies to this post....

 
At 7/24/2007 12:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Apparently Ammachi's swami's aren't teaching the group to be peaceful. Add Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh to your Google news alerts to get an idea how violent this group is. In the news today:

Andhra Pradesh – Five Hindu extremists on July 16 attacked a pastor and his associate and filed a police complaint against them for “forcible” conversion in Hyderabad, capital of Andhra Pradesh state. Dr. Sajan K. George of the Global Council of Indian Christians told Compass that the assailants, apparently members of the Hindu extremist Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS), beat the two Christians, identified only as Pastor Isaac and Yedbez from Bethel Church, while they were returning from a believer’s house in Afzul Gunj, near Charminar area in Hyderabad. The two had gone to the believer’s house to pray for him. “Pastor Isaac managed to escape, but the extremists dragged Yedbez to the police station and lodged a complaint against him,” George said. Police arrested Yedbez, who was subsequently released on bail. The two Christians received minor internal injuries in the attack.

 
At 1/28/2010 4:19 PM, Blogger Dhamma said...

I don't get it. Where is the proof that the RSS are Amma's "best friends?"
Thanks,
Brandi

 
At 1/28/2010 4:23 PM, Blogger jody radzik said...

The fact that Amma's satsang in India is full of members of the RSS is the proof.

 
At 2/17/2010 12:37 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

so if tomorrow any of the congress leader were to be present, you would backtrack from your statement and call amma a power seeking godwoman?? just cos a few RSS members come and listen to her satsang...u make such frivolous statement,,,,

gotta b kidding folks!!!

o btw, forgot.....Amma has met a lot of Congress leaders including Vilasroa Deshmukh, the then Chief Minister of Maharshtra, the flawless Defence Minister AK Anthony,,et al...

 
At 11/26/2011 5:05 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi, Just happened on this blog doing a little research on Gurus, whom i generally abhor. With respect to Ammachi however, respectfully i have to disagree. I have seen her several times, went to some Satsangs (i sat, and i sang) a long time ago, met a bunch of her people, am not a "devotee" or anything like that. Never was 'a seeker' anyway.

I concur with the critique regarding some of her followers, (not the RSS, i have no data there) and so do some (others) of her followers, but that said, i doubt that she would turn *anyone* away.

I don't count that as i would a person claiming exclusive Godhood for themselves, as many do, that is simply the form of that tradition. She does it, but i don't think she is attached to it, except as her function for others, and i don't think she is attached to any political views either, just my opinion.

Based on my experience, she is one of the few i count as having some integrity. I liked some of your comments, which seem insightful
to a degree, but in her case, i believe that is organizational dynamics that spring up around Gurus just as part of the territory
and i agree with some of your perception related to that.

True, she has raised a lot of money, what has she done with it? Follow the money, that is one way to tell, driving to an event in an old car donated by a devotee for the occasion, or arriving in a Rolls Royce?

Money going to the Guru, opulent stuff, (other than the show) or going to the poor? She supports
and helps a lot of people.

My view, Ammachi's work is initially with Bhakti, that's what she does, that's the form it takes, and Love has no I.Q.

Is she a Nazi? If Hitler were alive, she would probably hug him too. (He might probably die of it, or otherwise experience some unexpected effects) but anyway, that wouldn't make her a Nazi.

There isn't any mind of likes and dislikes, that is "the right one",
nor any such "spiritual or rational"
view including mine or yours as far as i can see, that is 'the last word' on anything.

The Truth speaks a different language, and anyone who attempts to live from that, should be aware that it is very broad territory.

That said, nobody has to be a damn fool, much less follow one. From here, it looks to me that Ammachi's real I.Q. is 0. And in my opinion, that's not a bad place to be.

The trouble doesn't start until the I.Q. gets up around 1, and i'm not sure how high it has to get before getting out of trouble, but i doubt that anyone has ever reached it.

Anyway, all the best, and give 'em hell.

 

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