Sri Sri Makes Tragedy Pay
File under: The Siddhi of PR and Sri Sri's March on the Prize
Just as we had predicted, Sri Sri "I Want That Nobel Peace Prize SO Badly" Ravi Shankar has taken to grandstanding in the midst of tragedy once again. Last year it was in Texas in the wake of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita... as well as in Jammu and Kashmir for some photo ops with local revolutionaries.Now it's in Varanasi, where last week Islamic extremists set off two bombs, killing 15 and injuring scores of others. In another example of the stunning hypocrisy Sri Sri is becoming known for, he asks politicians to refrain from their own "self-interest." That's kind of like asking a hubris-crippled big time guru to drop their living saint act:
"Political leaders should keep away their self-interests and discuss with each other these events to fight the forces which are against humanity. They have to work for nation’s interests. We should not think that we belong to a particular community or society. We all have to join hands. We pray for all those killed and also all those who have been injured," he said.Priceless. The god of self-interest commenting on the self-interest of politicians, of all people.
We see things heating up in India between the monster gurus. With the Kracki collecting millions to build a totem to his psychotic grandiosity and the Babaster's buying off whole governments to keep from being brought up on pedophilia charges, Sri Sri is going to need to keep his name in the headlines all the more. And just over the horizon looms the beginning of Ammachi's 2006 world tour. No big time guru in India holds a candle to her in the states, and she's already making moves in her home country to shore up her own popularity in light of the others' hijinks.
Can these mega-god-folk keep it civil, or will it take an eyeball lightning storm to sort it all out. These are exciting times in the world of superstar gurudom. We've got our money on Ammachi if it's an eyeball lightning duel, but don't rule out an alliance between Sri Sri and the Babaster against her if it comes to that point.
posted by guruphiliac @ 10:41 AM
130 Comments:
This is unspiritual and wrong to say these things about a saint who is trying so hard to heal this world. Shame on you.
I guess he's got you duped like the millions of others in India looking for an omnipotent space daddy to save them from the troubles of life.
Read the comments below the other Sri Sri posts, especially those of "On The Other Hand." Sri Sri is nothing more than a self-aggrandizing huckster looking to make a star of himself on the backs of the grieving poor.
Rita,
What is "unspiritual?" Do you mean to say that some behaviors are outside of the realm of God? If so, are you certain that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has not exhibited some of those behaviors (whatever you deem them to be) at any time? Be sure before you say "shame on you".
I can, with great certainty, say "shame on you", Rita, for jumping to conclusions. Calling SSRS a saint implies that he has no faults. You are terribly misinformed.
I never said that a saint has no faults. Shame on you for suggesting I did. The scriptures tell us to avoid those who speak against the Guru. This is all false information. The net is full of it, as are you.
Rita, you are exactly why Sri Sri, the Babaster and the Kracki are so successful at taking peoples' money. It is the refusal to think critically whenever a guru is the subject.
Grow up, Rita. Your childlike insistence on an uninformed reading of the shastras is keeping you and most of the rest of India in the Dark Ages.
You must think very highly of yourself to make such emphatic statements about other people. Why not get rid of your own arrogance and hypocrisy before you ask someone else to. I have not been hurt in any way by Sri Ravi Shankar. My mind remains my own and if I choose to feel affection and respect where you don't think it's due, that's my responsibility. Even the most controlling guru seldom tries so forcefully to change the beliefs of another.
You seem quite jealous of Sri Sri, in fact.
You're a drug user and you have the nerve to tell other people about enlightenment. I can see very clearly how you are using your mind to try to create a reality. If Jody believes it, then it must be true because Jody believes it. Talk about an occluding idea. "If I can't see it Jody's way how can I ever be enlightened. If I can only believe what Jody believes, I'll be a step closer to enlightenment." What a drug induced nightmare you are living. I'm willing to bet that you have no woman in your life. Even your dog is a male.
They're just teachers, Rita, some great, some incompetent but well-meaning, some downright corrupt and deceitful. None of them are worthy of worship -- or of being treated like a substitute parent by students who are supposed to be adults.
You seem quite jealous of Sri Sri, in fact.
I am enraged that people promote themselves or allow themselves to be promoted as divine above and beyond that which we all share, equally. The truth of the Upanishads is this: there is nobody more divine than anyone else.
Sri Sri uses people's belief in his divinity to acquire devotees and their money. He appears to be doing some good with it, but that doesn't let him off the hook for lying about his divinity, or allowing others to do his lying for him.
The fact is he's just some little guy who worked his association with the Maharishi into his own satsang, and now he's riding high.
Public figures such as Sri Sri are in no position to expect universal acceptance of their motives and behavior. He's been a clear hypocrite on several occasions... and his seeming obsession with acquiring a Nobel Peace Prize belies someone much less than a guru, and much more like a snake oil salesman.
Sri Sri is a public figure under media scrutiny. I am a part of that scrutiny. You may not like it. Great. Don't read it.
You're a drug user and you have the nerve to tell other people about enlightenment.
Yes. Your ignorance in this matter is common and not surprising. It is a moral accretion that's been around and dispensed with in India for tens of thousands of years.
Enlightenment has no more or less to do with drugs than anything else in manifestation. Yet there is a long tradition still very active which regards some drugs as useful in assisting the process of personal transformation.
Ask Ramakrishna about it. Ask Shiva about it. Smell the coffee and see that enlightenment is everywhere, just not in the hands of scheming gurus... or their sanctimonious devotees and their beliefs about things they truly have no clue about.
there u go..one more SSRS victim..i'm sick of handling these people..
So Rita, whats with the "no woman in your life"? Is there anything wrong if there is no woman in man's life? I don't see any problem with that...there are many great people who doesn't have a woman in there life...whats ur problem rita????
Rita, forget about gurus..first of all u look like a feminist...What can we expect from AOL, which is filled with Indian dumbass aunties...
Coming back to ur notorious guru, your comments on him clearly indicate that u know nothing about SSRS. We have first hand information from his past disciples proving that he is a traitor, egoistic and arrogant bastard....read all the posts related to SSRS in this blog..if u still dont believe it, then its ur karma..nothing much to do...
Jody, why dont u tell Rita about the "SHIT POT" common sense.
And Rita Aunty, whats all with this Drugs comments? It seems Sri Sri taught u lot about drugs or did u leave ur husband because of drugs...Its ok..once in a while u have to live alone. for that reason u dont have to rush to Sri Sri...u could have come to me..I have lot of good books and copyrighted techniques to handle people like u..
Guys, why flame her? She's a victim, not a shill. Flaming her will just harden her convictions.
Rita,
Jacflash is right, I think -- you are another victim, and don't deserve to be "flamed" for being misinformed.
Rita, the scriptures say lots of things. When they say not to speak against the Guru, do you think they mean a person? Do you believe Guru is a personality? Ask Sri Sri Ravi Shankar if that is the case. See what he says. Or do you think it is possible that Guru is a principle that may come through some people/things, more than others, in the form of helpful guidance and truths? What about the scripture that claimed one disciple had 24 gurus, some of them animals and inanimate objects? So Guru, imo, is not a personality.
When a man or woman somehow, through some Grace or whatever it is, begins to be able to assist in pointing people in the direction of Truth, we call that person "Guru". The problem seems to arise only when we deify the person, place them on a pedestal and tell others not to have alternative opinions about that person. As long as a person is doing something, people will definitely have opinions about those actions. (Sri Sri himself told me that once.) Opinions, however, are different from facts. There are facts about Sri Sri that you are clearly not acquainted with, or you would not be so touchy about some of these posts. It is fine for you to say "I have not been hurt in any way by Sri Ravi Shankar. My mind remains my own and if I choose to feel affection and respect where you don't think it's due, that's my responsibility. Even the most controlling guru seldom tries so forcefully to change the beliefs of another." But your statement leaves out the possibility (and in this case, fact) that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar has hurt more than a few people, and in devious, ugly ways. He has, in several cases, not "tried so forcefully" as you put it, to "change the beliefs" of others, but threatened them with punishment of various kinds when they refused to change their beliefs. Some of these beliefs were things such as not wanting to spy on others and report back to him; some people not wanting to hide some of his offensive behaviors from other devotees; devotees wanting to call the police when a "devotee" had physically abused and beaten another devotee (on Sri Sri's property); These are a few examples of basic human conditioning that some came to Sri Sri with, and he wished to change. He wanted them to simply do as he said, rather than as their consciences dictated. Can you blame me for feeling that he does not deserve the Nobel Peace Prize? I quite agree with Jody in this matter, although I've never met Jody. Also, just because he has never hurt you doesn't mean that nobody may ever bring up the facts that he has hurt many others. People who went unharmed by Hitler probably said the same things: "he's only helped me, got me work......those people probably broke the law so they were taken away....." That's probably just how Nazi Germany happened! People's refusal to look at facts. Sure, that's an extreme example, but it is just how such public figures get away with all sorts of nasty things. Many,viewing from a distance, never experience their behaviors. Something like a political leader, or movie star.
On the matter of drugs: is Bhang a drug, Rita? Are you acquainted with it? I was not, and have never taken it. I first heard about it in India, when travelling with Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, and he accepted this drink at a festival time from his host, knowing fully well exactly what it was. A friend travelling with us also accepted it. I asked what it was and the hosts simply giggled. I declined. I found out that it is an extremely strong mixture of some drugs (I think hashish) with some sweet drinkable something or other. The other person who drank it was intoxicated for hours from it. Sri Sri locked himself in his room. Go to him and ask him if this is a lie if you like. I don't care that he took this drug. I am just pointing out to you that your tirade against Jody doing drugs, when you appear to be comparing him to Sri Sri Ravi Shankar in some way, is unwarranted. I personally am not in favor of drugs for any purpose except to kill pain when one is sick. That's only my opinion though. Others are free to do whatever they want with them, including Jody and Sri Sri Ravi Shankar.
I view this blog site to be a place to joke and vent about self-righteous hypocrites like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sai Baba and the like. You don't have to read it if you dislike it so intensely. It's not so serious! Your insulting remarks to the host of this blog (Jody)reflect the effect that Art of Living and SSRS have had on you. You will defend Sri Sri at any cost, including being quite offensive to others in their "own place". Does that show that you still have your own mind as you put it? I don't think so. It shows that you are becoming brainwashed like many of SSRS's followers. My experience with Art of Living folks is that they are syrupy sweet and nice until you disagree with them, especially about "The MASTER", then they go ballistic, begin swearing, threatening, calling on the phone with insults, calling friends and family with false stories.....You name it, I've seen them do it. Not nice. But then, that's the world for you. An organization like Art of Living has no way to escape the realities of the world: There will always be dark and light everywhere you go. The ashrams become tiny "worlds" with some good people (Indian Aunties, as Dontbullme puts it :-)) and some very scheming and bad people. To expect such an organization or it's leader to save the world as you said, is ridiculous. Some help will come from the hands of the sincere helpers who are recruited, no doubt. But lots of money will be diverted to keep SSRS and his entire extended family much, much, much more comfortable (try rich) than they ever were before his ashram business began. He has made personal millions on Art of Living and the other "non-profits" he runs. Until you know more about him and the workings of those organizations, you should probably not get too upset with the light bashing he is taking here at this site. The non-joking comments about him are factual.
Good Luck.
I am not a victim, jacflash, but thanks anyway for your concern. These other enlightened gurus, Jody, ontheotherhand, dontpoopme, are showing the true depth of their consciousness. If someone disagrees with them even in the slightest, they show the under bellies of their egos. Insults and personal attacks on someone they have never met, i.e. me.
Jody is "enraged". Ask yourself who is enraged, Jody. If you ask sincerely you will discover it is your ego. Your ego is enraged because someone else has attained what you desire, while you sit alone in your bloody apartment. Wealth, fame, respect is what you are seeking. Otherwise you would not be enraged to see someone else having it while you do not.
You mentioned asking Ramakrishna. He said that if someone criticized your guru, you should beat them. Are you suggesting he was high on LSD when he said that? You grow up. When you attack someone I have loved and respected, it hurts. Perhaps you feel a similar pain when someone points to your very immature stage of emotional development. You are 30 something going on 15, just the right playmate for this dontpoopinyourpantsme person. Lastly, I have read some of ontheotherhand's statements. Could it be that he is in the pay of the Maharishi, just as it was suggested that the pro Sai Baba person was? How will we ever know? I doubt he is concerned with me being hurt by Sri Ravi Shankar. He is concerned with himself only.
As said before, you're all on drugs and made silly by it.
This broad is too scary for me! Let me know when she's gone! Rita, I'm sure you are just a lovely lady. Adios!
"When you attack someone I have loved and respected, it hurts."
Ahaaa...so poor Rita is hurt..It seems Sri Sri' medicine is not working for this poor lady....she lost her husband and now she is hurt bcos of our comments...
I think its time for you to do SUPER SUPER SUPER SUDHARSHAN KRIYA in his remote canadian ashram...why dont u shut ur pie hole and go there...
If you ask sincerely you will discover it is your ego.
Of course it is, Rita. Just as the source of the question you just asked me is also the ego.
Ego is all we have here. Whenever there is communication between two seemingly separate entities, it is from the ego that the communication occurs. There is no escape from this ego as long as we are in bodies. But if the ahamkara is broken, those egos no longer hold sway over the understanding of identity and source of being.
Wealth, fame, respect is what you are seeking.
Actually, all I want is to ski in the winter, backpack in the summer and have a job that I love. I have two out of three of these. I love writing this blog, and if I could turn that into how I pay my bills, I will have everything I want in life.
What I most definitely don't want is for anyone to think I'm any more divine or special than anyone else. If people want to think I'm smart and funny, or stupid and insecure, let them, either way. As an individual I'd prefer the former, but as a snarky asshole I know the latter will be a more common way for people to see me.
Otherwise you would not be enraged to see someone else having it while you do not.
Er... Bill Gates' wealth makes Sri Sri's look like a muddy stone in a sewer well, but I'm not enraged at him (although as a long time Macintosh user I do think he's an asshole.)
Rita, here is the truth. When I saw who I was, I was astonished at how plain, simple, common, mundane, everpresent and ordinary it was. The very last thing I could ever think is that I am extraordinary because I know who I am. People like Sri Sri spent a lot of time, money and effort to get people thinking they are extraordinary because they are supposed to be realized. This creates an incorrect idea in the mind of the devotee about realization. Instead of looking for something that they already have, that is right there at all times, closer than their own breath; they reach for something they will never find. That is occlusion. People thinking that their gurus are God more than you and I does more to prevent realization than every opium den and whorehouse in the world. The fact of the Upanishads is clear: we are all the Self, equally.
Sri Sri appears to be doing everything within his substantial power to have you believe he is better than you... in almost every way. He wants you to think he is a god because he is realized. He may as well be taking a tree branch and beating you with it for all the good it is doing you, in my opinion.
You mentioned asking Ramakrishna. He said that if someone criticized your guru, you should beat them.
And Vivekananda made fun of and criticized Ramakrishna mercilessly, in his presence. I feel I'm continuing Vivekananda's tradition of 1) Making sure everyone knows that the Upanishads say that everyone is Brahman, not just gurus, and 2) making fun of and criticizing those who would purport themselves, or allow others to purport for them, that they are more divine than anyone else.
When you attack someone I have loved and respected, it hurts.
That has much more to do with who you've chosen to love. You are a free being who can choose at any time to not come here. Just chalk me off as a name and fame obsessed, very deluded and quite insecure soul who can't get laid. Then all will be right in the world, right?
I haven't taken psychedelics or even smoked pot in more than 30 years, Rita, but you've convinced me it might be time to try it again. A Rita on something might be a lovlier Rita than we have seen here.
I do not always see eye to eye with Jody but I do not doubt his sincerity or ontheotherhand's. Their rage against the abuses of the gurus we have seen over the last few decades is a voice crying in the wilderness. Jody has slapped me up side the head a number of times and I hope that I have done the same for him. But basically I see Jody as decent person trying to tell the truth.
Thus spake falseguru!
PS Grow up dontshitme!
Hmmmmm, I've run into some trouble with this one: Maybe I'm being paid by the Maharishi Rita states. Now, Rita, why on earth, would Maharishi Mahesh Yogi pay someone to defame Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, since Sri Sri is always claiming to have been MMY's favorite? Isn't that a contradiction? If SSRS is MMY's successor, which he has said he will be, why would MMY pay anyone to put him down? Odd. Anyhow, I don't get any money from any gurus anyplace. Sorry Rita, wrong again. I just know SSRS far better than you ever will.
Uh, Rita, where did I state that I was a guru or enlightened? I don't remember posting that. You certainly are mixed up on this one. I'm just at a blog site while I'm working, cheating the boss, printing unspeakables about your Beloved Sri Sri. That's about it. Sorry about my low level of consciousness. Blame Sri Sri. He said once that he was my Guru. Guess he doesn't do good work?
You are quite right, Rita. I am not the least concerned about you. I enjoy posting facts about SSRS and watching what his ardent followers do. I couldn't care less if you are fooled by him, since you are definitely falling more and more into the zombie category here. Nobody could talk sense to you about him. Why try? Why care? You'll figure it out. Or not. Like you, I am only concerned with myself and people/things that interest me. Full of ego. On that point, you are right Rita.
Again, Rita, I am not on drugs. Are you? You seem to be preoccupied with them. I only brough up SSRS's drug use to illustrate the point that you seemed to have a double standard: Jody and whomever else posts here who seem to enjoy doing drugs shouldn't do them, and it makes them crazy or incompetent. You don't seem to feel that drug use has impaired SSRS. Why? Is he really a superhuman like he and others claim? (I don't claim that he is an habitual user, btw, I only witnessed the one occasion.)Why would you waste your time on some druggie's site? What is your motive? Are you employed by Art of Living?
I maintain that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a fraud, fooling little old Indian Aunties and other people into thinking that he is Krishna or Siva or whomever else he thinks he is this week, taking their money for his own glory, power and fame. He hides his own nature behind the cloak of a white brahmachari's dress, and sweet words, claiming to be acting for the good of the world. If he cannot even be kind to those serving him, how good is he for the rest of the world? Time will tell and expose all things about SSRS.
Here is a challenge, ontheotherhand:
Should I read these accusations about Sri Ravi Shankar documented in a well known magazine, such as Yoga Journal or Hinduism Today with a real human being's name attached, I will believe what you say. Otherwise you just sound like a spoiled rich kid who paid for a 5 course meal and only got a lolipop.
All others, kiss my ass and Jody's dog's ass! It makes me feel like dancing!
So now Rita aunty needs proof...Did u ever ask ur parents if u r born to them? somethings u just need to believe...
PS Grow up dontshitme!
Mine is already 8 inches dude...make sure you have enough space in your smartass before I kick it in...And congratulations, u can now kiss rita's ass.
Now, now, ladies and fellas.
As much of an asshole that I am, let's try to keep it a bit more civil than what's transpired here, ok? Please? Pretty please with lots of fake siddhis for everyone?
I've seen a lot of other jackasses with bigger ones than that and they didn't bray so loud about it!
Yep, Rita, you got it! Finally! Paid for a 5 course dinner and only got a lolipop. That's an astute observation of what Ravi Shankar gives for the money. Billed as a way to enlightenment, and all ya get is a little empty calories. My fault for believing a con artist in the first place. I'll be the first to admit that one.
Rich kids unite! Let's not give any more money to the fake gurus, wherever they are!
"I read it in Hinduism Today" "I read it in Yoga Journal". "Must mean it's true, of course." How silly of you. Sounds like "I saw it on TV". Do this instead -- take copies of all these posts and bring them to Ravi Shankar in person. Watch his face turn red while he tries to hide his extreme anger. Then watch him recover his composed, fake look, and ask him sweetly: "Is any of this true Guruji? I told them they are all drug addicted liars. Am I right?" Maybe he'll say "yes, dear Rita, you are sooo right. Now go dance, laugh sing and meditate some more...."
Your command to others to kiss your ass (please leave Jody's poor dog out of this)and other name calling shows exactly how much Art of Living and Ravi Shankar have done for you. Your words are proof of his failure. I need prove nothing else. You are his best and most accurate advertisement.
Of all the SSRS supporters who visited this blog, Rita is the worst one....
So rita how big is ur gurus?
Dontbullme,
Rita is a girl's name. How would she know how big her guru's is? I thought you knew SSRS. Evidently not dude.
well Rita is acting like a minor girl...so i thought SSRS might be interested in it... :-)
Boys, commander Jody has asked you to be more civil and demure in your choice of words. Let's get back to that higher plane from where we originally came. I say again, Rita be gone!
ontheotherhand, are you saying that she she is a gay blade?
...not that I have anything against a gay blade!
Your childlike insistence on an uninformed reading of the shastras is keeping you and most of the rest of India in the Dark Ages.
Ooooh, Guruphiliwacko, you don't mean to say that you're out here in blogosphere to lead us innocent Indians from out of Dark Ages, just as the Gurus claim too? Looks like you're a guru with a mission of your own, guruphiliwacko!
The general standard of discussion here seems as rigorous as Kripal's phoney scholarship, who by the way, wangled a whole PhD on bengali texts without knowing a lot of Bengali. But this one really takes the cake:
I maintain that Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a fraud, fooling little old Indian Aunties and other people into thinking that he is Krishna or Siva .. etc etc, the bile ending with:
Time will tell and expose all things about SSRS.
You mean you have no evidence that he is a fraud? You can't post any? And you'll twiddle your thumbs and wait for "time" to "tell" instead of rushing the evidnece to cops right-away and having Sri Sri arrested?
My symapthies.
Crypal,
Are you Rita in disguise? Or another paid Art of Living person?
My statements are based on my personal observations of Ravi Shankar, no more, no less. Not based on rumors, gossip, whatever. If you don't believe me, go meet him in person and find out for yourself. For more details about the nature of the type of fraud, please see some of the other posts I've put here. Or do you, like Rita, need to read something in a newspaper (reliable like the New York Times perhaps -- hehe -- we know how vetted their info can be) or "trusted" magazine like Yoga Journal, etc.?
For some more public lies put into play by Ravi Shankar's people, go to Wikipedia and check his bio. No degree in anything, much less advanced physics (he told me he left school, as did several of his classmates in Bangalore, when still in his teens).
The guy is a liar. That's all. He lies about various things, and misrepresents himself in various ways and trashes anyone who dares to confront him. Some of those ways and things have been listed in the various comments on Jody's posts about him. Last time I looked, people don't call the cops to have gurus arrested for being frauds and liars. Besides, Ravi Shankar's group happens to teach all the cops in Bangalore city his precious, now-trademarked, Sudarshana Kriya. So which one of them will arrest him for any illegalities he might participate in? Haha. Do you live in India? If so, are you joking or what?
BTW -- who in the world is Kripal the guru? Is that a real guy?
Don't you find Jody's and others' posts here funny, Crypal? I do. This particular blogspot makes me laugh. I don't get why it annoys you so much. I also don't know why crusaders (like you) trying to save these various bogus gurus feel the need to come to sites that are designed to gossip about those people and joke about That-Which-We-Should-All-Take-Very-Seriously-And-Bow-Down.......
oooooooo. I know, Crypal, now my karma will be very bad because I bad-mouthed the Ever-Holy Sri Sri 1008 Sri Ravi Shankar, aka Krishna, Siva, Divine Mother. Thank you for your sympathies -- I may be needing them as I burn in the fires of Hell for even saying anything nasty about Almighty Guru. Have mercy on me, puleeze.
Crippled the Guru...whats ur problem dude...first read all the posts and then talk...please dont waste our time
I am not crypal the guru in disguise. Bite me ontheotherhand!
Ah,
I can just hear the conversation now between her Beloved Sri Sri 1008 Sri Sri Ravi Shankarji Maharaj:
Rita: "Guruji, the bad, awful people who are all on drugs, at that terrible guruphiliac site are saying such mean things about you. I've tried to be nice and educate them about how you are God and everything, but they just won't believe me! What can I do, Guruji?"
SSRS: "Haah?? I don't knoooow..."
Rita: "really Guruji, these people are just awful and filled with bad karma -- help me to know what to say to them to convince them how great you are."
SSRS: "Welllllll, Rita, you could just tell them 'Bite me', each time they say anything at all offensive about me, okay? Jai Guru Dev."
Rita: (Gushing tones, while blushing with gratitude): "Thank you sooo much, Guruji. I'll begin the campaign of the knowledge of 'bite me' immediately."
SSRS: "Very goooood, Ritaaa."
LOL...you just nailed her....
...I view this blog site to be a place to joke and vent about self-righteous hypocrites like Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Sai Baba and the like. You don't have to read it if you dislike it so intensely. It's not so serious!...
Good thatz is just for fun. But you could put a warning at the begging at the site. Otherwise people cam became confusing with the things that are said just here.
And then... continue having fun.
Good luck
Bite me, Sydney!
Rita, I had just agreed with U...
But its useless to ty to convince people to not say lies (because it's very easy to say "if you knew SSRS in fact, u wold stay away"...). Where are he facts ?... probably they do not exist otherwise would be in the media.
He drunk drugs ???? makes me laugh... ("at least once..."!! rsrs)
I'm sure none of people that are saying that have been next to SSRS and know his projects.
I'm also sure that SSRS is not worried about this kind of comments, because he just sleeps 2h day and keep working resteless.
Do not worry about the comments... they are just baseless opnions.
Of course there are false gurus and as well false politicians, and so on, but we can not think that all the people that work for peace and a better orld is a liar.
Hugs
Sidney,
Everything I said about SSRS is true, Sidney. Why, when anyone says anything negative about a guru must they be lying, or couldn't have ever been close, etc.? Isn't it possible that you just haven't seen these things (yet)?
To see more about how Art of Living and following Ravi Shankar has affected "Rita", please see her post on March 15, under the "Ashram and Psychedelic Life" heading. She is a walking example of why people leave Art of Living and SSRS.
Many people who followed Ravi Shankar for some time have left, Sidney. They left because they saw the hypocrisy and lying. They left because they saw the self-serving nature of this man. They left because they saw a man saying one thing, and living another. He should just come out and tell the world just what and who he is. Then see how much Indian following he has.
How do you know how many hours he sleeps per night, btw? And the fact that he is somewhat of an insomniac (2 hours is an exaggeration and you didn't count his afternoon 'rest') doesn't make him great, only sleep deprived.
The story about the Bhang is quite true. I don't even think it's bad. I was only telling it to point out the contradiction in another poster's comments about drug use. I am not personally interested in drugs and who uses them where and when.
Some of Ravi Shankar's projects are good because of the people who are going out and doing social work. They are innocent and big-hearted individuals. That doesn't mean that he has not become personally wealthy from skimming off the top of his "non-profits". If you look back far enough, you'll even find out that they had a hard time defending one of the original non-profits in India because it failed the government scrutiny. That was paid off by bribes. You know how India works, Sidney.
None of what I've posted is lies. If you think it is, please cut and paste it, take it to Ravi Shankar, read it to him in person and ask him "is this true or false?" And watch his face carefully. Ask him if anyone could have ever seen him do any of these things and if there are many other things he'd prefer the public didn't know that this poster has omitted. (He has bigger attorneys than I do.)
Please do this, then let me know what you find out.
Rita's posts from the first to the last are all the proof I need to give you as to how Ravi Shankar and his teachings affect people.
Funny how you don't seem to see how you yourself swing back and forth from syrupy sweet to pekinese attack dog. If what you say is true about the effects of the AOL teachings on me, they are still at work within you, ontheotherhand.
I'm starting to believe you, but I just don't care. I repeat that I have never desired to be close to SS. Unlike you my interest lies elsewhere.
"Everything I said about SSRS is true, Sidney."
Sorry, I read a lot of your writings but did not find the facts.(self-promotion, etc...for me these are hyphotesis, but could not found a real fact - except the drug fact. Maybe did not read all texts, but would like if u could resume them).
"Rita's posts from the first to the last are all the proof I need to give you as to how Ravi Shankar and his teachings affect people."
I think U cannot judge SSRS by the writings of Rita. SSRS is not me, your writings, or Rita. There are a lot of crazy people that probably followed Jesus, etc... (p.s.: I'm not saying that Ritais crazy or that SSRS is Jesus, its just an example).
The way you write is so convincent, and u should have good reasons for that. If u dont mind, would like to know the real facts...
p.s.: I think (rsrs...) i'm not crazy or fanatic... but till now, for me SSRS is an example. This point of view may change, but till today do not have good reasons or facts for that.
"They left because they saw a man saying one thing, and living another."
So please let me know which things are that.
See u.
Rita,
So! You are beginning to be convinced? Now you can tell the "art of living ladies" as you put it. I was convinced that you were quite interested in Ravi Shankar by your staunch defense of him. Lucky for you that you are on the periphery of that silly group. You are surely better off.
I am not attacking you, Rita. I'm attacking SSRS. And I will continue to speak the truth about him for as long as it pleases me. If someone calls me a liar when I tell the truth about little Ravi, I will contradict them. I am quite interested to see the public reaction, especially in India, when he is seen as he is, and falls down boom. The world deserves better heros than people like him.
Your post under the Ashram Life and Psychedelic Life spot, didn't just make me a dog, it made me a dog with a collar! Sequined collar! Nice gesture.
Why do you reduce every post to insults? Don't you have anything better to do?
At least she said you were cute, otoh. She seems to have about as much to do as the rest of us.
facedog --
LOL "at least she said you were cute".
Blech.
I more meant something better to do than always be so insulting as opposed something better to do than post here. Cheating the boss a little on the internet is my little fun. More fun than work :-))
ssrs is a cheat- i'm an ex devotee and he used to stay with us so i know
sri sri
loneranger,
I was beginning to think that all of SSRS's ex-devotees had never seen this blogspot.
Cheat is a mild word for what Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is. But it will suffice for a beginning. Please do say more! I just love to hear other's horror stories of their time with him. Many are similar, and some are unique.
How long before you think he gets caught big time?
He's stayed in my home also. And several of my friend's homes. Most are ex-Sri Sri now. Those who did not leave him rejected me soon as I dared to make my exit.
Don't worry, loneranger -- his "eyeball lightning" won't get you no matter what his psychotic followers told you. Nothing happens.
Dear Jody,Ontheotherhand and other Kindred Minds here,
Words cannot adequately capture my admiration for your guts and quest for TRUTH!
I write with trepidation about this charlatan as he has many lynch mobs.My own relative has been bought lock,stock and barrel.
ssrs is diabolically cunning; has different strokes for different folks.We are from the middle class.
My relative x goes to Bangalore every second month citing some "volunteer work" or "advanced course".All that x and many gullible like x do is clean lots of toilets ,wash lots of vessels and of course "meditate".. lol.Does not wash even a teaspoon at home:)) Eloquent enough.
I find more of selfloathing and negationism in x who also gets cantankerous if I ridicule this multiple repetitive srisri.
My own research along the lines of Jody and others led me to this fact:-
These charlatans gain some occult powers by resorting to black magic..practising certain forbidden tantrik stuff.Results are swift,fired by their megalomania. It is say,the equivalent of nerve gases.That explains why these "worshippers & devotees" end up with paralysed thinking and reasoning faculties.
One more fact which scares me Indian Army personnel too,many of them are into his "breathing techniques"!
God Bless you Jody and others!
Even with Ammachi,I feel something is not alright.She is not a conwoman but she is not enlightened either.She is being used by vested interests,that is what I feel.
Could Jody and others shed more light on her? Spare me their charitable activities please...it is such a convenient smokescreen.
People, for me it's not clear when someone says "I was an ex devotee and SSRS is x or y"...
I would like to read the facts that made u think like that.
- Rich ? Ok, AOL is rich. But I think the problem is not the money have but the way u use it... without money u can do nothing even with very good intention...
- Fame? Self-promotion ? Ok, SSRS is famous in some places. In South America, for example, people does not know that he exists... If he is only interest in self promotion, he could of course buy space in the High Media... Never saw him in a famous media, except in some papers and magazines in India... Instead of giving millions of dollars to tsunami disaster, for i.e., could spend this money with self-promotion (of course tsunami's help, gives media, but with that money he could had appear much more).
- Nobel Prize ? ... his chances are minimum... and this prize actualy means nothing. Bush, for i.e., was indicated to Nobel Prize. Nothing else to say about ?
Never saw him claiming or saying something about Nobel Prize... actualy think he's not worried about that and its value.
Ok, this is my opinion.
So please let us know the facts that made u all so angry with SSRS.
People like Sidney, sweet talk us into coming out with facts.What more do you need?
Are you planning to dent our case,by having a dekko and becoming more careful in the future? Are you ssrs's agent or whatever?
Let the onus of proving and disproving fall on the charlatans.Not on whistleblowers.
ok guys...why do you think sri sri wants the nobel prize? apart from the money he feels that's how he would get tha fame and be accepted in the west. i was with him in his german ashram about 5 years ago. there were just a few of us sitting with him-mostly his inner circle,when he first told us he about this. he even said that the only reason dalai lama has become famous in the west was because he had won the peace prize.after this meeting got over and we were all going to our rooms, one from the inner circle came and threatened me with dire consequences if i ever let this be known to anyone else! also do you know sri sri is a good mimic?he imitates many guru's when he's alone with his inner circle. he does not even spare his own teachers-the guys who are doing his canvassing. there is a teacher in india-very senior- who is obese. he laughs at her obesity behind her back.i'v been witnass to this...so much for unconditional love
of cousrse sri sri is gay...the inner circle in bangalore will tell you about the orgies....
According to Jody, this should not be used to judge whether he is self realized or not. Even Charlie Manson might have been self realized in Jody's mind.
Come on Kalyani, love and peace...
SSRS agent ?? My God. I'm also not a lawyer arguing for the "onus of proving".Hope u wake up, this is not matrix... just real world.
Loneranger, tks for replying.
So, the facts (that you've heard from persons of the inner circle) are:
- He wants the Noble Prize, to follow the success of Dalai Lama;
- Is a mimic (prejudice);
- Is Gay
And :
- Use drugs (a later post on this site).
Ok, this is realy so serious.
The first 2 no so, because everyone should have win the Nobel (And comment that it should be good) or say jokes (of course without ridicularize or mistreating others).
The fact that he uses drugs (as writen before) is serious because once asked about the effect of drugs in councious, he said that he had never had drugs... So, someone is lying.
The second is worse, because he is said to live in celibate... So, again someone is lying.
I'm sure time will show where the lies are.
Of course a famous and rich person has enemies, and these things - if true - will appear in the media. Don't u think ?
Ontheotherhand seems tobe very hurt and sincere in the postings. Would like to hear from, what in fact moves u to writre everyday's notes about SSRS.
See u.
Even Charlie Manson might have been self realized in Jody's mind.
While I would agree that self-realization can happen in the context of a psychotic mind, I've never stated that Charles Manson was self-realized.
Nothing I've posted here has been lies, so in my case, I know who the liar (sometimes lies by ommission) is -- Ravi Shankar.
To those of you bold and brave enough to post the last few posts -- BRAVO! I also know that you are not lying, but Ravi Shankar. I only hope that you don't get caught, that the person here trying to find out who we all are, doesn't find out, and doesn't report back to the ARt of Living Gestapo. It is more than a little unpleasant to have friends and relatives told horrendous lies about you by the ARt of Living people, just because you disagree with their guru. When those lies are spread through society, it makes it even worse.
Sidney -- if these postings that you see all over this blogspot don't tell you something, then I can't imagine what would. Of course someone frightened of SSRS, like Kalyani obviously is (and I'm sure she is using a pseudonym far from her own name to protect herself from his wrath), would say "relative x" or "person y". The reason SSRS has enemies is not because he is famous -- it's because he has been cruel to many people. It is because he has lied about those brave enough to break away from him. I pity those still there, absorbed in that nonsense.
Someone claiming to have all this unconditional love for people doesn't sit around and badmouth his own teachers, using them as punching bags to amuse his groupies late at night. I've seen the same behavior many times. But just let anyone make fun of him and watch the fireworks!
His organization is a typical cult. He is the cult leader with absolute power. No one can question him and get away with it.
Sidney, you claim SSRS doesn't use the mass media to advertise himself. Haven't you been to Bangalore? You can't even walk down the street without seeing buses with nothing but his face, organization name and contact info on the sides. Same in Delhi and Bombay when he has his programs there. The guy wants to be Ammachi. He told me himself "one day I will be bigger than Ammachi. I will be more famous than she is." blah blah blah. All this because someone went to her programs while staying at the Bangalore ashram. Ridiculous. He was angry and jealous and slapped a curfew on the ashram while she was there. Nobody allowed into the city! Paranoid. He then began hugging all the people in the satsang. That lasted for a small while -- he will never be Ammachi.
Sidney, what makes you defend him? You ask why I post here? Why do you? I feel like it. That's it. Criticizing this fraud named Ravi Shankar is just what it is. Criticizing him. I hope somebody gets something from it, like they leave and tell others to leave. He won't care since he has limitless followers and defenders. But maybe a few people will think a little before jumping into his organization.
Kalyani said...
These charlatans gain some occult powers by resorting to black magic..practising certain forbidden tantrik stuff.Results are swift, fired by their megalomania. It is say, the equivalent of nerve gases. That explains why these "worshippers & devotees" end up with paralysed thinking and reasoning faculties.
Highly unlikely; the dynamics are much simpler. Whenever large groups of people surrender their personal power or ego, through "worship" and adoration of a celebrity of any kind, the celebrity imbibes that power. Which is why rockstars and politicians are so powerful. It's how Hitler became so powerful. It's a subtle dynamic, but can be seen in all walks of life, not just among Spiritual Gurus. I don't believe that Sri Sri is using Tantric approaches to subjugation.
Even with Ammachi, I feel something is not alright. She is not a conwoman but she is not enlightened either. She is being used by vested interests,that is what I feel.
You and I are in no position whatsoever to judge whether a person is enlightened. It takes one to know one. Based purely on my intuition, it's my opinion that Ammachi is. An no, I'm not a devotee. Never been to any of her hug-fests either ;^)
Spare me their charitable activities please...it is such a convenient smokescreen.
Charitable activities are not used as a "smokescreen" by the big movements, but to be held accountable as a non-profit, and to show to the public that some "social service" is being performed. True gnana daana, or spreading wisdom is actually the highest service. At the level of consciousness of a fully realized master, as Vivekananda said, the notion of helping others is a foolish idea - "the world needs no help." But you cannot say this to the lay public; it will be misunderstood.
Ok, thatz fine.
These posts, of course, tell me a lot. But what seens to be is that u are a group united to complain together and criticize SSRS with some specific reasons that just u know among u.
I've been in Bangalore and seen the photos u said... but realy (not ben partial).. do not think it was bad. If have an event or a course happening... people have to know.
What I said is with the money AOL has, it could be used to promote the Guru worldwide... and it seems that is not the case.
Think u all cannot or probably dont want to say directly in which way SSRS affects your security, why everything must be said in codes, pseudo, etc...
My question is WHY he is so frigtning and in which way he has been cruel to people ? (simple like this)
Divergence in opinion is reason for been afraid of telling something, or to suppose that I am an agent of SSRS, or receiving calls from SSRS threatening u and family ?
I dont know if i've been clear and respect your silence about that...
But it sounds strange to me thatz he is gay, use drugs, try to be like Amma, want the Nobel Prize at any cost, threaten people... and no media tell us about that. I'm not saying these things are untruth, but at least are very strange to me.
I'm not defending nobody, and really think SSRS do no would need that. just first posted here because was searching for some projects of AOL in the Net. When i read the posts got interested... but then, read, read, read (about been afraid, SSRS agents, drugs, etc., etc., and been trying to undestand). Thatz it (just it... I swear that I'm not a cop or something like that in a pseudo).
I've been in courses of AOL and met SSRS sometimes, but not as close as u all are saying here..
It seens that some of u have been very very close to him for a long time, and it's not my case.
See u
Shoonyata,
You wrote:
"Whenever large groups of people surrender their personal power or ego, through "worship" and adoration of a celebrity of any kind, the celebrity imbibes that power. Which is why rockstars and politicians are so powerful. It's how Hitler became so powerful. It's a subtle dynamic, but can be seen in all walks of life, not just among Spiritual Gurus. I don't believe that Sri Sri is using Tantric approaches to subjugation."
I tend to agree with this generally. I do not know for certain whether tantra can be used to harm people or not. I do know that Ravi Shankar practices certain procedures, some of them while sitting on a special red cloth at midnight or thereabouts, and doesn't like anyone to touch that cloth or even know that he is doing the practice. I have no idea whether this gives him the special powers people think it gives, but I'm sure he does it for that reason. Whether he gets what he wants out of it, who knows?
I also suspect Ammachi is enlightened and that her activities help people on the material level. I don't view those activities as a smokescreen in her case. In SSRS's case, they are in place (and the names keep changing, morphing, being added) to protect his personal wealth gained from his ashram business early on in his "career". "dollar a day" program, for example -- a simple way to get some money from people abroad who think they've "adopted" a child. When pictures were to be sent to some of these people sending money, and it was asked "what is this child's name and who adopted him(her)", the answer was "doesn't matter, use any Indian name and send it to any one of the donors." Really. When the question was asked "why are we not giving the money to these children's parents to help them?" the answer was "because they will just waste it." The "school" that was built with the money was some grass thatching on the roofs of some shabbily constructed block structures on the ashram grounds -- that was only to protect the supposed "non-profit" status, and also because the ashram land was originally bought with the promise of building a village school on the lands. The school was lightly populated with poor children whenever it was convenient. There was more than one occasion when teachers had to be threatened with police action for beating children unnecessarily (not threatened by Sri Sri who sanctioned it as 'discipline', but by foreigners who saw it and were horrified.) What a scam. The rest of that money was used to build the large meditation halls. I have difficulty believing that any of his programs are strictly for anyone but him in the end.
It's wrong for SS to scam but OK for you to scam your boss by writing this stuff while you should be working?
Yeah, ain't it a shame? I hardly think you can compare me to Sri Sri. I never claimed to be a saint of any kind. He did and does. Besides, my boss doesn't really mind. I made him read some of your posts and he laughed his ass off.
:-))
OTOH: the practice you describe does sound like some sort of Tantric sadhana, and these types of sadhanas are certainly capable of generating great "personal magnetism". However, intrinsically, this is not a harmful practice. There are certain Tantric practices called vashikarana (commonly feared as "black magic" in India), which can cause great harm to others. They can also be used to bring another person's will under direct control. I am highly doubtful SSRS is indulging in this though. The consequences would be catastrophic to himself.
The school mess sounds much like the reported scenario at MMY's original ashram in India back in the 1980s, with reports of alleged neglect and abuse of children.
You know, I have read that Brahmananda Saraswati (whom the Jai Guru Dev greeting pays respect to, and that most AoLers use without knowing that it actually refers to SSRS's ParamGuru) had originally instructed MMY to not accept disciples.
I think certain people, enlightened or not, are just not cut out to handle such a behemoth organization, especially because the micro-management details are left to decidedly idiotic yes-men who have abandoned common sense and prudence.
Should the main man be faulted? If you employ the principle of res ipsa loquitur, then certainly, SSRS is responsible for the negligence of his organization, even if he is personally unable to oversee every single detail. But otherwise, give the man a break. He's performing in a tightrope act while simultaneously juggling a dozen balls : )
Shoonyata, I think it's exactly the point. What teachers or other members do, of course, is not what SSRS would do.
Thatz the onus to deal with a lot of people... Hard work.
Jody and Ontheotherhand have been EXceptionally perceptive and plucky throughout.
The 'black magic'practice is very much a reality.Many politicians in our country are doing precisely that.Again,FEAR prevents me from writing in detail.
sidneys or others seemingly sceptical and curious in tandem, is no Bruce Lee,that I would divulge everything,period.
This ssrs had challenged MMY that he would amass much more money and popularity than him; had attempted to rope in a close friend of his as his partner.That person being sane and sensible had declined.ssrs cast some spell on him as he did not want himself to be exposed.That 'friend' found himself behaving like a zombie,unable to carry out his usual tasks.He approached a real non -self aggrandizing Swamigal(the Genuine ones Do exist like the "flowers blushing unseen" shunning publicity) to rescue him from ssrs's evil spell and was bailed out.What I have written is very much a fact,not made up.
I cannot reveal more.
Also one of the disenchanted ex-followers told me,when he found his money was being siphoned off and receipts were fudged or denied to him he naturally protested without grovelling.
The henchmen hovering around in typical filmi style,held out menacing threats to his family and himself and he was literally shown the door,in ssrs's presence.And he told me ssrs, all the while, carried on with his well practised evil smile,I know ,"beatific" to many!
I read what Jody has written about Ammachi.Quite revelatory enough for me.
Let us be simple and get rid of unwanted clutter and contrived verbiage,ok?
One who builds a hospital is a hospital builder and so on, like house builder,school builder.
CERtainly NOT God!
Ohmigawd,save me from such 'wannabes' who want to upstage the Omnipresent like contemporary hiranyakashipus and bhasmasuras!!
We, as a family have lost quite a lot of money with x's frequent trips and money being paid for "courses".Repayable loans are also offered:))Also x returns home armed with lots of ayurvedic drugs.Why? Says "people around felt my nadi and prescribed these".
Atrocious.I know a smattering of Ayurvedam.I am SHocked to find aswagandha and many more drugs strewn around the house.Also who is going to be held accountable to replenish our money lost?
The *consolation* is so pathetically, tragically and farcically anaemic...we * self console*, *convincing* ourselves all our money has gone to "charities & donations".
Kalyani said...
I read what Jody has written about Ammachi.Quite revelatory enough for me.
Perhpas you should learn to read between the lines better. Then you will discover jody's guarded admiration for her despite all the lampooning. Granted, she does have a "big ego" (the reason she did not attend SSRS's big bash apparently).
Let us be simple and get rid of unwanted clutter and contrived verbiage,ok?
If you're refering to my written style, sorry... can't please everyone. I am only offering my take on SSRS as an outside observer.
I have my own Guru (who was among the invitees to the 25th anniversary gala; they even accorded him the honorific Parampujya. During their meeting, SSRS even made a comment directed towards my Guru that validated that he does have a secret hankering for name and fame).
Yet, my Guru spoke very graciously about SSRS. If my Guru (recognized as an enlightened Siddha by Yogi Ram Surat Kumar, Annamalai Swamigal and others) could be so gracious about SSRS (and he recognizes fully well SSRS's true spiritual stature, make no mistake) then perhaps we too could learn to take things in the correct spirit.
One who builds a hospital is a hospital builder and so on, like house builder,school builder. CERtainly NOT God!
Eh? Ammachi certainly isn't going out there donning a hard hat and laying the foundation for the buildings! And regardless, her realization of the Divine has zilch to do with the social work done by her organization. The references to Asuras are ridiculous and childish. Take a chill pill.
Also x returns home armed with lots of ayurvedic drugs.Why? Says "people around felt my nadi and prescribed these".
Atrocious.I know a smattering of Ayurvedam.I am shocked to find aswagandha and many more drugs strewn around the house.
I'm sorry to hear about your heartache concerning your family member. SSRS appears to have just followed the blueprint of MMY's model of incorporating Ayurveda etc into his business. I have studied Ayurveda in depth; Ashwagandha is an adaptogenic herb, much like Ginseng - completely harmless, and valuable as a tonic herb.
But it does sound like your relative needs a reality-check. Hope it works out for you and family.
do you really believe that SSRS can cast spells? and that he uses tantra? i feel all those people close to him really heve low intelligence levels.if he really could manupalate energy, why has he not taken over the political scenario. because he does want to have his own candidates in govt office,this he's told me. that he wants to have his own people even becoming the prime minister of india. that way he has the control strings.he's just a power hungry manuplative ass
Then you will discover jody's guarded admiration for her despite all the lampooning. Granted, she does have a "big ego" (the reason she did not attend SSRS's big bash apparently).
Of all the bigtime gurus I am aware of, I believe her to be the least affected. That said, she–and especially those she surrounds herself with–are all still very much in love with the idea of her being God. They use this idea to a great effect and economic benefit to their organization.
Any public figure receiving that much money in donations is going to have to do something public with at least some it. Hospitals get built, which is good for all. But I think it happens because it is expected for them to do so as much as it is altruism.
I am more impressed with Ammachi as she does put herself on the front line for long hours of giving herself. Many people do take something from it, even though it is entirely by way of a kind of faith healing placebo effect than any real power or "shakti" she is purported to wield.
There is still much to critique about her satsang, including, as shoonyata has mentioned, her reliance and transmission of Hindu superstition, including the references to mythological bugaboos like asuras.
This combined with their insistence on her special divinity assure that folks will believe in her "magic" and continue to attend (and donate) at the satsangs.
It's just too bad everyone's head gets stuffed to the skull with ridiculous expectations about self-realization based on seeing her as the model.
Despite the momentary warm-fuzzies, it's not doing them any good if they are actually striving for self-realization rather than a magic hug from an inflated "mommy" figure.
Jody said,
"Despite the momentary warm-fuzzies, it's not doing them any good if they are actually striving for self-realization rather than a magic hug from an inflated "mommy" figure."
I find this remarkable coming from someone who claims that a drug experience can work wonders for someone who is after self-realization. I am not a devotee of Ammachi and very much dislike the projection of godhood on any guru but she certainly helped me in a time of need. The first time I was hugged by her was in 1987 in Taos. I had never heard of her and had no preconceptions. During that hug, I thought, "This is nice. She's very sweet and this will be over soon. You can endure this hug." Next thing I knew I was sobbing uncontrolably. Some deep seated pain was cleared away, like the cobwebs you say that a drug will clear away, Jody. I went away feeling more inspired to keep going. If you want to call that a "warm fuzzy", I'll take it. Later she helped me accept responcibility for my part in getting divorced. This broke down an ego structure I had errected, leaving me a little more free.
Still, I stopped seeing her many years ago because of the crowds and the hoopla. Her people always seemed to be half angry. OTOH mentioned that Sri Sri prevented his devotees from seeing her. I know for a fact that her own devotees often feel concerned about seeing another guru. Some out of fear will drive to another city to see someone they wouldn't see in their own town. Some have been told they have to "choose". There have been similar accusations about misuse of donations as there are with any of these big groups. That is always going to happen. I wouldn't blame Ammachi for that. My only problem with her is the claim to be god. I find that really bogus. It is a fund raising technique.
Many people do take something from it, even though it is entirely by way of a kind of faith healing placebo effect than any real power or "shakti" she is purported to wield.
Despite the momentary warm-fuzzies, it's not doing them any good if they are actually striving for self-realization rather than a magic hug from an inflated "mommy" figure.
Shaktipat is a very real phenomenon whether you believe in it or not, jody. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. Your entire theory of attributing mystical or otherwordly Kundalini manifestations happening in people after being touched by the Guru to simply being there at the right place at the right time (both literally and metaphysically) are just plain erroneous.
If you are ever blessed to spend time up close with a bonafide Tantrik or Tantrika Guru capable of Shaktipat, it would be only this occluding belief which would prevent you from gaining the most valuable experience from the encounter. Yes the Self is closer than your nose and all that jazz, but is it your living, breathing, pulsating reality, 24/7? As long as it is not, a Guru can help in ways your mind cannot conceive. It is not superstition, and it is not "Hindu mythology".
I pride myself on being rational and not throwing my intelligence in the dustbin upon forging a Guru-Disciple relationship. My own Guru insisted that I question him just as Vivekananda did Ramakrishna when I fell at his feet during an early encounter. Ramakrishna might have been a physical manifestation in the life of Vivekananda, but he was vital to the realization which happened as a result. It could not have been any other way. Similarly, the embodied Guru is the agent that leads the sincere disciple to freedom. The discerning ones are able to move beyond the public "psycho-drama" and to the core of the message.
You also do realize, I hope, that Ammachi (and many other Masters) appear in darshans to spiritual aspirants who have never even seen or heard of them in darshans in remote places, where they are initiated into higher level practices. She functions on many, many levels simultaneously - as a "mommy" to those whose minds need healing, nurturing comforting (and what's wrong with that? I doubt people are thinking one hug is going to make them Brahma Gnanis!), and as a Devi manifestation to those advanced aspirants doing their sadhana.
Your entire theory of attributing mystical or otherwordly Kundalini manifestations happening in people after being touched by the Guru to simply being there at the right place at the right time (both literally and metaphysically) are just plain erroneous.
I do not deny the existence of shaktipat, nor its power for engendering transformation in those who experience it. What I'm denying is that gurus wield this power at their will. The phenomenon happens in the presence of a guru, usually in the context of a satsang, but the phenomenon itself is actually entirely within the devotee. Nobody has power over kundalini. She does what She wants, when She wants to who She wants. The guru may be there, and may appear to have mediated the experience, but no person has any control over what happens as a result.
The very real phenomenon of shaktipat-induced kundalini experience still doesn't negate other things happening in that situation which are better described as faith-healing. You may get set off when your guru touches you, but that doesn't mean the guru actually did it as an act of will. At best s/he could be described as a conduit or a trigger point rather than a siddha who wields magic power at the behest of their individual will.
I have experienced shaktipat in the context of my guru. However, my initial shaktipat experience was completely spontaneous and happened miles from anyone who I'd call guru at the time.
is it your living, breathing, pulsating reality, 24/7
"It" doesn't breathe or pulse. It "shines" for lack of a better word, or perhaps even more accurately, it simply "is" in a context in which it is continually revealed within the context of day-to-day awareness.
and as a Devi manifestation to those advanced aspirants doing their sadhana.
Certainly. She is a living, breathing Ishta Devata for millions. However, I do not believe she has any more power than any other idol that isn't put there by the faith of the devotee. That faith can move mountains, whether focused on an Amma or a picture or statue of a deity.
I'm not denying that there is power at an Amma satsang, I'm saying that it comes through the faith of the devotees, revealed or hidden, rather than the magic powers that so many attribute to her.
"Despite the momentary warm-fuzzies, it's not doing them any good if they are actually striving for self-realization rather than a magic hug from an inflated "mommy" figure."
I find this remarkable coming from someone who claims that a drug experience can work wonders for someone who is after self-realization.
If the person leaves that satsang with the belief that self-realization will turn them into an Ammachi, they got screwed.
That may not happen all the time. Perhaps it doesn't happen as much as I believe it to, but based on the last 20 years of my life's experience in and around the satsang community, I've seen many more cases of people believing ludicrous things about self-realization than not. I'm convinced these beliefs occlude. It's much better to have zero expectations about realization, and the big time gurus would be assisting their devotees much more were they impart this fact in their teachings.
Regarding the use of entheogens, it cuts both ways. The rishis were always going on about soma, so it's not something unfamiliar to Vedic-based practice. That said, it's at your own risk and at the possible peril to your sanity that one undertakes their use.
That faith can move mountains, whether focused on an Amma or a picture or statue of a deity.
True, but one human being finds it much easier to connect with and relate to another human being whom he or she regards as Guru or Ishta Devata. How many people that you know are able to truly worship through the idol at a temple? How many people can "see" the Kali idol turn into a living Devi as Ramakrishna did? How many have that sort of faith, that sort of trancendental devotion to Parashakti? For those of us who lack that sort of singleminded bhakti, Guru Yoga is a simple yet profoundly effective way to reach the Self within, the Satguru within. Not only Hindus, but Tibetan Buddhists utilize this approach too, by regarding the Guru as an exemplar of living Buddhahood.
How many people that you know are able to truly worship through the idol at a temple?
I know quite a few, actually. They're all Kali devotees.
Guru Yoga is a simple yet profoundly effective way to reach the Self within, the Satguru within.
Absolutely, provided that those minds are not polluted by ridiculous speculation about self-realization.
That's what I'm attacking, any speculation about self-realization. The big time gurus like Sri Sri and Ammachi are cyclones of this speculation, hence my assertion that they are doing more to interfere with self-realization rather than engender it.
Jody has really understood it..what is meant by self realization sans all overwrought *imaginations*.
It is equally evident, the detractors who respond are only interested in vain rebuttal:))
Jody has really understood it..what is meant by self realization sans all overwrought *imaginations*.
It is equally evident, the detractors who respond are only interested in vain rebuttal:))
Heh, hardly. I've only been pressing on because I have personally experienced through initiation a direct transmission of energy which opened awareness of pure Being within me. My Guru likens it to breaking the boundary between jada and chitta, or body and pure consciousness, and in my experience the result is an instantaneous awakening. Now I must only be constantly aware in all my actions and it can easily become permanent.
Furthermore, my Guru has produced this experience at will over a hundred times so far in each disciple he initiates in this manner. Such an esoteric initiation has not been revealed much, nor can the precise details be found in the shastras (although Shankara refers to it obliquely), and it is quite unprecedented that this pure gift is being offered to so many. Ramana initiated only a handful of disciples in such a manner. The cave of the heart to which he refers is his talks is this very experience, but the details are not known.
That is all I will say. I am not interested in indulging in intellectual gymnastics about Vedanta. My truth is my truth as validated by my experience - I shall say no more.
The cave of the heart to which he refers is his talks is this very experience
Sounds great, for an experience.
I'm not saying your experience isn't valuable, and your guru sounds pretty awesome. Your story gives me pause in my current rendering of the phenomenon of shaktipat. As I said, I know it exists, I just don't buy into the conventional ideas about its causality based on what I've seen.
I can't claim to be qualified to comment on the methods of your guru. But I'm very certain that jnana is not an experience. There is an echo of experience around jnana in the mind of the individual, a memory of it being known, but the understanding itself is just not anything that ever gets handled by the senses, which are pretty much the extents of the realm of experience.
I am not interested in indulging in intellectual gymnastics about Vedanta
I can't blame you for that. But intellectual gymnastics is just about all you can do with Vedanta, whether or not you've come to know your Self.
The statements that lower level organizers are doing things that SSRS would not know about, or approve of is false. Even when direct discussions of some of the horror-stories I have posted here were brought directly to his attention, he just let them continue, citing the possibility of the people in charge of that particular activity getting better at it, maybe (who knows how).
Any time Ravi Shankar was approached directly about his paranoia, lies, deceptions, he became more paranoid and said that he had to hide somethings, otherwise Indians would not follow him, because of the nature of Indian society. Kalyani has only shown the tip of the iceberg of those hidden things, out of her fear. I don't blame her a bit.
Shoonyata seems to think that SSRS would never take on the types of tantric practices that would have "devastating results" as she put it, of controlling other's minds and bodies. He himself, if she would read my previous posts, claimed to me that he had done so. He made the claim with pride "I now control the mind's and actions of over 200 people"... (I've forgotten the exact number)"they are operating with only a small percentage of their own thoughts now". I am paraphrasing, but that is the gist of his statement. I'm sure it's more by now, unless he was lying about that. He said this sincerely, with pride, and as if this was a wonderful thing for those people. It totally freaked me out.
I also believe in shaktipat or some type of transferrence of energy of some kind. I have to say that I didn't not believe in it, or even know what it was until I had my first experience of it with SSRS. I'll also say I don't want any more of it, ever. It was real, terrifying and I do not believe used for my good. It consisted of my arguing with him at length about a bureaucratic matter which I felt he was handling very badly. I questioned his integrity on this matter (it involved money and the treatment of people). After some time I also questioned his state of consciousness, stating "an enlightened person would not do this type of thing!" He turned his head, touched my chin, looked into my eyes, and I nearly lost consciousness. I saw some kind of light emanating from his eyes, and felt enormous energy proceeding throughout my body. He then said something like "I could destroy you in an instant" or "second". I do not know how long it lasted, but I was frightened, and bowed after that and left the room dumbfounded. He did this on several occasions, whenever I would disagree with him. I always left wondering why I had crossed him, feeling that he was very great indeed, and had some feeling of bliss throughout my body. My conscience always lurked in the background, reminding me that my principles mattered more than this temporary feeling of energy. In the end, my conscience won, and his "eyeball lightning" lost. I also felt quite ill after these experiences. At no time did I ever feel enlightened by them. From these and other experiences with him, and from information given to me by others, I became convinced that he was trying through some means I didn't (and don't)understand to control people. Some people who had been very close to him, and wanted to leave because they were upset with certain behaviors they observed, told me how frightened they were of him, frightened to leave. Especially Indians. I also witnessed several people who, upon leaving, found themselves acting like zombies, unable to carry out their daily tasks. SSRS took "credit" privately when things went terribly wrong in those people's lives, saying "they defamed the Brahman" (meaning they told the truth to others about Ravi Shankar) "and so now they are suffering". He even said this about the tragic death of the daughter of a close follower who left. She burned to death in a freak accident while in a large group doing puja. He said it about a young man went semi-public about SSRS, then went quite crazy, and then retracted all the things he ever said about him. (Didn't matter because too many people already knew the truth.) It's hard for me to know where superstition ends and reality begins in these sad cases. Did those things happen to them because they believed his words? I dunno. Was there so much power in his "I will destroy you" mantra? I dunno.
The whole thing is disgusting, in my view.
Jody or whomever can deny that this happened, that my mind is weak (probably is) or whatever, but I know many people who were close to him who experienced the same things, and became reluctant and frightened to tell the truth about him as a result. It took some time away from him for me to feel myself, to feel my personal interests again in certain things. I really, really, really, feel sorry for Kalyani! Her family member is being brainwashed and used by SSRS for whatever reasons. He must find that person useful to him. Her spelling of Ayurveda as Ayurvedam, leads me to think she is a Tamil speaker. So her family member is especially, in my view, vulnerable, as SSRS likes to have people who speak his native language around him, as well as Kannada speakers to run his business in Bangalore. All you can do, Kalyani, is hope that he forgets all this foolishness. If not, perhaps you can throw him out. I've seen many marriages break up over SSRS. He encourages it privately. His standard line is something like "how will you remember me if you are always remembering xyz?" and looks coy.
You are right Kalyani. His smile is actually evil.
Loneranger -- who did SSRS try to get as a partner? I knew that SSRS had political aspirations. He said as much.
Btw, Shoonyata, I've visited Ammachi's ashram for a few days and she doesn't put on a hardhat, you're right. When I saw her there, she had just given darshan to some horrendous number of people all night, and then got up, went outside, picked up a pick, and started slamming away at rocks on a building site there!! I'm not joking. It was bizarre. Lots of people followed suit and started lifting stones and mud and whatever and working along side her. That was when I knew it was time to leave. I am not a construction worker. That place would kill me in a week! But boy does that lady work hard!
well, these kind of experiences are so personal and difficult to judge.
It's aso so difficult to distinguish, in fact, whatz fantasy or reality...
By the time I spent with SSRS, i can say that i experienced shakipat in a very sweet way. He touched my back and after a while something different happened to me.
After that (about 2 years ago), I became happier, with more councious - of the present moment - and very gratefull.
Well, i do not live in India, and have been in contact with him just for 3 times.
Never felt afraid of him, and i do not feel controlled in any way by him or AOL.
But thatz my experience.
OTOH.,you are ABSolutely right!
This black magic thing is a reality.I have heard lots of people say so and certain victims have narrated some really bizarre events in their lives.
I would say all these charlatans are as evil as the *branded* terrorists.ssrs's avarice is truly.. gargantuan.I read he even hobnobs with American President!
Yes,my mother tongue is Thamizh.Ours is an extended family.x is female...hence is being asked to clean toilets and vessels in place of "servicing" ssrs.
What is very painful is x does not articulate her shock and anger.Instead it is some kind of fear that makes her spend her money.Contrary to hallucinatory rita's speculation, we are not affluent at all.Which is why x avails of "loans" and repays by cleaning toilets and other "allied activities".
X does not come back a Happy person at all.She has changed a lot,leading to a lot of unnecessary discord in our entire family.What kind of spiritual evolution is this?
Our maid had the best advice for her:-
"Pray before a Stone Icon...will never abuse you physically,emotionally or monetarily".
I have also observed the devotees of ssrs maintain such icy secrecy in tandem with murderous rage too!
OTOH,
About the *eyeball fixing spell*.,I suppose it is like what Harrison Ford does to Michelle in the movie "What Lies Beneath" towards the end of the movie,in the bathtub.She is conscious yet unable to defend herself or react in any way.
I have heard many people say that thieves and chain snatchers too practise some such spell casting so that the victim is paralyzed enough not to react with quick reflexes.
Certain magazines openly publish ads where they "assure" to take care of your "adversaries" or "nullify" the "spells cast" by ,what else..,more potent black magic:))
A serene, no nonsense life is far superior to chasing "gurujeeees" and genuflecting before them.
I cannot thank Jody enough for this site !
otoh, you are soooo right. SSRS really does break relationships and then smiles sweetly and says -how will you remember me if you are with someone else. that's how he has prevented his inner circle in bangalore from getting married. he is very pro BJP and detests sonia gandhi. he did'nt want the congress to come into power, though he would like to remain in their good books as well.
Sidney,
so, the truth comes out -- you only met Ravi Shankar 3 times. So you really have no way to know what he is like. Don't be mislead. Go into this blogspot and search out all the postings on Ravi Shankar. You will see that these are mostly not personal experiences, but rather factual accounts of my observations around him while in close contact, living with him. Not 3 visits. Many months at a time. He stayed in my home. I stayed in his ashram. I traveled with him. Like many who have had these experiences, I left, knowing he is much less than he claims to be. He is a crook.
The personal experience I posted above was for Shoonyata's benefit, since she doubted that SSRS was trying to hurt anyone. He is trying to hurt people who don't do whatever he says. He has hurt many, many people. He has destroyed many lives. The fact that he has some social workers in his employ now does not make those other facts somehow cancel out.
Take what I've said into consideration before you become more involved with this man.
The fact that you became happier "after that" and felt grateful, does not mean that he caused it. It could be that you were at a moment of faith in your life where that experience had to dawn on you anyway. I doubt very much that SSRS caused this event in you.
i completely agree with kalyani. i too owe a big thankyou to jody for this site. SSRS messed me up so badly and seeing this site i realize i'm not alone. SSRS is extremely rude and arrogant and also very insulting but you should see the way he kisses up to the politicans and celebraties!he is lying blatantly about the number of villages he has touched. i have seen that for myself as i used to be involved with his seva projects.when we had reached just 50 villages he used to tell people that AOL has reached 500 villages. then after saying that in his mahasatsangs, when we'd be in the privacy of his car going back ,he'd just chuckle. he even lies about the numbers attending his mahasatsangs. all the figures are exaggerated. all lies.he's a manupalator.thanks jody for this site at least peoplle like SSRS should be exposed.
I'd have to agree with rita that kalyani mainly seems concerned about the money she's loosing to ss. Not wealthy but has a maid? The Indian culture is so into treating people lower in the social pecking order like shit, it's no wonder that rich Indians need someone like ss. He's just treating them they way they treat their own "maids" ie servants, ie slaves. It's a sick culture that makes the deep south in the 1950's look good by comparison. Indian society deserves ss, sb, and lots more like them.
OTOH said...
The personal experience I posted above was for Shoonyata's benefit, since she doubted that SSRS was trying to hurt anyone.
I'm a he btw : )
Thanks for sharing. I'm really in no position to pass judgement, whereas you have spent time with him. I will admit, though, that the man does rub me the wrong way on a gut level. A good friend from Bangalore who had gone for the big bash said that at one point, she came close to SSRS, and they locked eyes, "he stared at me, and I stared back" and she said it was extremely disconcerting.
I just have gratitude to Parashakti that I found a sane, wise, compassionate and enlightened Guru (or rather, he found me.)
OTOH, I would be delighted to correspond with you through email, since you seem to have been as much a "professional seeker" (as my Guru likes to call us folks) as I! I have in the past corresponded with jody as well, under my real name.
"The fact that you became happier "after that" and felt grateful, does not mean that he caused it. It could be that you were at a moment of faith in your life where that experience had to dawn on you anyway. I doubt very much that SSRS caused this event in you."
The other facts that u say, ok... it's your experience with him, and as u said u have lived close to him, of course our impressions are made.
About he shakitpat, i can assure u thatz not fantasy or a moment of faith... It happened, and just minutes after I was in the car with him and he intentinally touched me.
I will not give the details that I've experienced... think that kind of things are difficult (or impossible) to put in words... but can assure u that it came from him, and it was one of the most real experiences of my life.
Ontheotherhand, the facts u bring us are strong and came from your experience.
What I think is the great masters give to people what they need to improve in a certain moment.
Maybe, if he acted in another way with u, u would be now very confortable, and not worried and questioning a lot of things.
I know a lot of good and inteligent people (like u showed u are) that are very close to him that love him, are not fanatic, and say that he is a "mirror". Give people what the need at a moment.
All the experiences of the relatonship guru-devotee, shows us that it's so difficult to understand a master.
Jesus was killed and defamed, the same with a lot of saints and masters of the past.
I am not saying that SSRS has no faults, or that u are saying are lies... but thing about the possibility that u received what u needed to improve at that moment.
I am not saying that SSRS has no faults, or that u are saying are lies... but thin[k] about the possibility that u received what u needed to improve at that moment.
This illustrates one of the primary tenets of this blog, that even bad gurus can work wonderful good in the lives of their faithful.
It's not what you believe, it's how you believe it. If you are truly sincere in your faith and belief in your guru, it's going to work out regardless of what a hack or crook s/he is.
However, that's no reason to withhold discrimination in your evaluation of the gurus you are considering applying your faith to.
"However, that's no reason to withhold discrimination in your evaluation of the gurus you are considering applying your faith to."
Agree with u.
But also think thatz its dificult to evaluate a great master.
Usually, different people receive different reactions of the great masters... (it's not easy to understand the ways and reasons of their actions).
Sometimes sweet words are not usefull... (however, everything I received from SSRS was sweet and intense. Just met him 3 times - some days in each time -, and his presence changed my councious.
About his eyes, i can assure u all that is incredible to look deep into his eyes...
In my case, was the most pure expression of love i've ever seen..
Thaz all i feel.
No away to not getr stuck (but did not feel controled - in any way - by him).
But also think thatz its dif[f]icult to evaluate a great master.
Sri Sri a great master? Please!
About his eyes, i can assure u all that is incredible to look deep into his eyes...
In my case, was the most pure expression of love i've ever seen..
It all proves my point. It's not about the guru, it's about the projection of the devotee. You are seeing what you want to see in Sri Sri. He's got the guru "look" down, and you project the "expression of love" there for yourself.
Just don't give him any money. He's got enough already.
sorry for "eating" words and bad english, its not my natural language. : ))
It is much more easy to explain everything as projections... ok, that was my experience and u may judge that I project it... but can assure that at the time that things happened I could not even hve projected it, cause i did even know (quite well) who was him.
"You are seeing what you want to see in Sri Sri."
Think thatz not the case.
Just never saw (or heard) such things that i found just here in other sites or places.
I have contact with people that is very close to him, and the feelings they have for him are: respect and are proud to be devotee.
"Just don't give him any money. He's got enough already."
Much of the texts here are about money...
When a organization or someone is rich, people are moved to think that money is the main goal.
I've been in India for twice, saw the projects, and for me it's a baseless idea (really think hat having money - and projects, etc. - it's a hard thing for a master, because this is always the first thing remembered).
"Sri Sri a great master? Please!"
Again, it is my opinion.
If u have been with him and did not feel that, thatz ok.
But u may agree with me that me be or not may be...
(if not, he's a very very good lier... to move millions - including swamis and other religions people - to the 25 year celebration)
Remembering that great masters are just recognized when dead...
Anyway, I respect your point of view...
I don't want to digress into tangential matters.
Nevertheless,I need to remind chucks of the world,it is no Uncle Tom's Cabin scenario.You must have been fed manufactured saint teresa's accounts of "squalor" of India.
Anyway,this blog is not for awakening you chuck, to the truths about Indian culture that get woefully distorted.
Hey sidney,
just wondering...if SSRS nicely trims his hair and beard like us...will u still see the same "expression of love" in his eyes? let me know if you want to picture him like that...I'm good at adobe photoshop, i can make him look like us.
Lol.. Dontbullme...
Think thatz not the case... but if he was just dressed in a normal way, and with no beard an long hair, probably i would feel the same...
Have u ever looked deep into his eyes ? (personally)
p.s.: I'm a man a married (very well married, btw) ... lol
Gee Chuck, didn't realize that you were such a racist!
India is a beautiful country. Indians are no worse to their poor than western countries. Go to any American or European city and tell me that there are not huge ghettos filled with unemployed people, suffering because of the greed of the rich. Crime per capita is much higher in American ghettos and cities in general than in the enormous cities of India.
The fact that Kalyani has a maid doesn't mean anything about her being rich or whatever you think it means. Ordinary middle class people in India have maids. Those maids are very grateful to have work that is more diginified than working along side the roadside chipping stones to carry on their heads. Their employers generally feed them, help to educate their children by paying the fees for them, give them new clothing several times yearly, and act as helpers in many other ways. People in America hire some illegal alien, treat them like "things" as opposed to people, never know where they live, never know anything about their families or children, most of the time. The main problem in India is simple population. Imagine the condition of the US if it had one third the land mass and 4 times as many people!
I felt that Kalyani's posts were complaining about far more than money lost. She has lost a member of her family, possibly her husband, to this fraud, Ravi Shankar. And SSRS will drain their reserves dry. Don't forget, Chuck, there is no welfare system in place yet in India. It is a young country, only 50 years from independence. That means any little money Kalyani has, she has to save to educate her kids (education is not free), to live and retire. If this person drains their reserves, the entire family could end up as beggars. Her fear is real. Not imagined.
Now let's see, 50-100 years after American independence what was America doing? They were relying on slave labor for their economy. They were importing Chinese laborers and making them into indentured servants to build America's railroads. I could go on with the history lesson.
It seems very unfair to hold India, having been colonized so recently by the West to such high standards as present day America or Europe. They are, in fact, far ahead of those countries at the 50 year mark of independence, imo.
Sidney,
you said in response to Jody questioning whether Ravi Shankar might not be a 'great master' :if not, he's a very very good lier... to move millions - including swamis and other religions people - to the 25 year celebration)
First of all, he didn't move millions. Even that exaggeration is an outright lie. The Deccan Herald newspaper in Bangalore City printed the approximate number of the celebration to be 2.5 lakhs, which is 250,000 people. Sorry Sidney. He lied.
Consider this: Hitler convinced millions to love and follow him blindly also. It did not make him a saint or a spiritual leader or great man. It meant he was powerful over others. That's all. Who knows how? I have read accounts of a female filmmaker who described being near Adolph Hitler. It sounded exactly like Ravi Shankar's loving devotees. That filmmaker even said that she felt, in his presence, some awesome power, that she felt transfixed by his gaze, and that she would do anything for him. (She regretted it later, when the Nazi's fell, and her reputation was spoiled.)
Comparing Ravi Shankar to Jesus is ridiculous. Lots of swamis in India can do the same thing with their eyes that Ravi Shankar seems to do. I have experienced it many times. It doesn't mean they are great or not great. It means they have a particular skill that I don't understand, imo.
Many other people have seen Ravi Shankar as I have. Many who are around him, claiming to love him endlessly, doubt him also. But they are afraid to express this. They feel it would be bad, like saying something bad about Jesus or Krishna. But it's not!
Posting truthfully about Ravi Shankar here is no more and no less than that -- telling facts, not myths about him.
Now about his being a mirror -- that is the convenient foolishness always given by masters who treat someone badly "it was their bad karma, so I mirrored them". If your neighbor goes around your neighborhood saying things about you that are untrue, if that neighbor is rude and mean to you, if he does any of the behaviors I've mentioned about Ravi Shankar above in these posts, will you say "he is just giving me what I need. He is just a mirror...." If not, Sidney, why not? You should do that. BEcause any and all people, according to your reasoning are just giving you what you need.
I got a lot from Ravi Shankar. the #1 gift he gave me was to never, ever want to be anything like him. He made me see what greed and power hungriness can do to a person. He made me see what the desire for name and fame does to someone. You are right -- he taught me one of the most essential lessons of my life -- not to be cruel and deceitful to people the way he is.
ok sidney,
how often do u look deep into ur friends or relatives eyes? I think never...well give it a shot...u will see the same stuff....I tried to do the same thing to Sri Sri..but it seems he realized that i'm going to ask him a difficult question...so he pretended not looking at me...
Hey dontbullme!
You are alive! LOL -- I have actually asked SSRS to do just this: cut his hair and trim off his beard and see who would follow him around (and also wear normal clothes). He said the Indians wouldn't follow him probably. And he said it was his job to get a large Indian following which Maharishi Mahesh Yogi failed to do.
Sidney, So what you are married? You think SSRS hasn't corrupted even "well married men"? LOL!! Better watch out those long gazing sessions, Sid, dude, you never know what might occur to your mind.
Hey Loneranger,
I'm sorry to hear that you were one of the unlucky abused ones who got messed up by Ravi. It is a shame. I know just the chuckle you mean -- like you are supposed to feel that it's okay for him to lie about everything because you are now in his "inside circle" of fools. I hope you have recovered from your trauma, and that you have found help somewhere. So many are ready to defend his indefensible actions that it's possible for a person to feel quite alone when they leave that place. You are warned not to call on any of the people you've known through the organization, etc. If they do call, it is to give warnings and scoldings and other such trash. You are warned never to talk about anything that happened around him or your life will be ruined, one way or the other. Look at me! Big wimp, unwilling to use my real name to post. Still scared of the ramifications.
Of all the people I know who did manage to break away from the closer contacts with him, only one felt the need to go to a deprogrammer, and he did that. He said it helped him to feel safer. But he still is afraid to say anything in public about SSRS, as are all the others I know who have left.
So Kalyani,
your female relative is miserably trapped in that mess at the ashram. I pity her. The best you can do is to try to talk her out of it somehow. Show her this blogspot, perhaps and all the postings about her Beloved Sri Sri 1008 Sri Ravi Shankarji. Ask her why she thinks she is cleaning toilets as opposed to being invited to his room late at night. Ask her what she thinks is really going on there.
You know, it's hard to explain to some people what it means that she is being made to clean toilets. Americans reading this think "cleaning toilets, so what?" I understand what you are saying. He is a real B*****D. She must be feeling guilty about something, and he is encouraging her to feel that way.
All gurus are not frauds (though many or most probably are). I've met a few sincere people who have given me good guidance. Maybe you can get her to go with you to Mysore and visit Chamundi Hills. In my darkest moments, when I went there, I found complete relief in that place. Not from any person, but just from the Mother, who gave me total relief from my pain and confidence to continue. Also maybe you could take her to Nanjungod to the Siva temple there. Both places are so serene and the presence is so much more than any little Ravi Shankar.
I wish all Love and Happiness for your family and for that relative, and that she should be able to break away from that prison.
Sidney,
Update and correction: the original Deccan Herald newspaper story on SSRS's "Jubilee" said something like "Turnout falls short of predicted 2.5 million" and went on to say that only 250,000 (only!) people attended. I remember the story distinctly, and that it's tone was very sarcastic. Since then, that story on the on-line edition of Deccan Herald has disappeared and has been replaced with a story saying that 2.5 million people were "cheering" etc. blah blah blah. Evidently Ravi Shankar now controls at least the on-line edition of the Deccan Herald newspaper in Bangalore.
Please be aware that the city of Bangalore has 6 million people. The space where the supposed 2.5 million people would have assembled would never have fit that many.
Why this little man (Ravi) would not be satisfied with a quarter of a million suckers coming to see him is beyond me. Why inflate it to millions?
In any case, he now owns either the on-line or paper editor at DH. You indeed have a powerful guru!
Dear OTOH,
Thank you IMMensely!
Yes,in fact,our maid is part of our extended family.In short,you have understood more about Indian ethos and lifestyles.Thank you for so many reasons!
It is not money lost that I am lamenting more at all.That is incidental.We as a family have almost lost HER!!She is sso hostile towards us!And such a changed,different person,you get what I mean? Sits before that scoundrel's photo,worshipping with flowers and silly laughs.Makes me wince!
There is nothing infra dig about any work.I clean our toilet and do a lot more household work.She travels to Bangalore to do this imagining one fine day "God"(sic) will bestow some rewards on her.The utter ludicrousness of it galls me.
Anyway,I am following your advice.I have successfully prevented two families who were about to be brainwashed into joining aol.I owe it to you,Jody and other honest people here.
Wish I were as articulate as you are in expressing my gratitude in words!
What is utterly despairing is most of politicians and "law enforcers" are his followers.That is cause for alarm.
Many of Puttaparthisaibaba's followers KNOw his *credentials*,yet shrug it off with a "so what...".That too is equally alarming.Whereas in America,you have deported some and taken some decisive action in the past too.Who do we turn to in India?
Ontheoterhand,
"You indeed have a powerful guru!"
Respect your point of view and know that you are so upset.
(...)
I was on the celebrations and could no count (lol), but anyway
i have been in other events with 300.000 in my country, and know that in Jakkur there was much more than this...
The place was prepared to receive 2.8 million people and was quite full... I walked around...
(u can find some photos and see the aerofield on the net).
See also that
"http://www.newkerala.com/news2.php?action=fullnews&id=13089"
But at the bottom line, it is not most important thing (the amount of people)...
Of course u can compare SSRS to Hittler, but in my opinion is more "ridiculous" (as u said) than comparing him to Jesus.
"In any case, he now owns either the on-line or paper editor at DH."
Is it a fact or just one more supposition ?
I've been reading all the news about the event and could not found the one u mentioned... could u pass me the link ?
"Is it a fact or just one more supposition ?"
So is 2.5 million a fact or one of the suppositions made by SSRS?(Like Ramadan and Namaaz are sanskrit words..later found that this is utter crap fabricated by Sri Sri..he himself agreed). u r saying that the place was prepared to receive 2.8 million people and was quite full...so u mean to say 2.8 million or close to that visited Silver jubilee. How close is 250,000 to 2.8 million?
But at the bottom line, it is not most important thing (the amount of people)...
So what is important dude? I have not read a single piece of news on "How Silver Jubilee changed the lives of people"..Did rediff, TOI or any other indian newspaper or foreign news came up with these articles? I like AOlites saying "No words can describe the experience". This is the most common sentence used by AOL people. Dont u think people could have spent that money to address the poverty in India or famine in Africa...
"Please be aware that the city of Bangalore has 6 million people. The space where the supposed 2.5 million people would have assembled would never have fit that many."
BTW
Jakkur Aerodrome has 265 acres.
Each acre correspond to 4047 square meters = 1.072.455 square meters (total).
Considering that they put chairs, so could there be 3 people for square meter which corresponds to more than 3.2 million.
The place was prepared to receive 2.8 million (400.000 square meters left to the other small stage, halls and main stage)...
Kalyani said,
"...it is no Uncle Tom's Cabin scenario.You must have been fed manufactured saint teresa's accounts of "squalor" of India."
OTOH said, "Gee Chuck, didn't realize that you were such a racist!
India is a beautiful country. Indians are no worse to their poor than western countries."
......................
What bullshit!
I think that anyone raised in the US South in the 50's and 60's, as I was, would hear in your voices typical answers given by middle class and wealthy southern whites. OTOH points out that the Indian version of “house nigras” are luckier than the ones who work outside. But wouldn’t it be better if they were paid enough to take care of their own children’s education, so the parents would get the respect due them for their labors, not the good master. Perhaps as the southern whites would have said, the poor Indian workers are too uneducated or foolish to take care of themselves.
I and many others have seen the incredible gap between rich and poor in India, something that is quickly spreading west. I have seen thousands of poor Indian families living in plastic tents and sleeping near busy roadways, a short walk from gated mansions where they work for slave wages that barely cover the cost of food. Just like blacks in the south, the poor Indian workers are constantly accused of stealing.
OTOH himself has spoken about the lack of compassion Indians have for their own poor. Maybe that’s OK with him unless the culprit is Sri Sri. Maybe it only matters to him if it gives him an opportunity to vent. Normally I see this site as an opportunity to have a little fun but I just got tired of Kalyani’s whining about money. She has shown very little concern for her relative’s emotions, heart or soul in regard to Sri Sri, only what it was costing her in money.
I have been around Indian culture and spiritual groups for more than 30 years and I have seen first hand how superficial they are. 99.9 % of people from East or West, approach gurus, temples or gods for strictly selfish reasons: jobs, relationships, male children, health issues, or spiritual experiences. The entire Indian society is corrupt from the lowest taxi driver to the highest politician. Even the gods demand and expect a bribe to deliver the goods. Just like the American blacks flattered their white masters, devotees flatter their gods and gurus, hoping for a handout. Is it any wonder that most gurus are corrupt as well?
OTOH also came to Sri Sri for ego enhancement. He was willing to pay and expected to be treated in a first class manner. When Sri Sri began to condescend to the fellow or worse still, demanded that he work, that was that! OTOH has told us a number of times how lazy he is. It’s no wonder that Sri Sri didn’t think he was paying enough to be kept on a velvet pillow next to the guru’s chair. I am not a racist, OTOH, but you are an elitist crybaby. Now Kalyani says her maid is part of her extended family! Bull! The southern whites also used to go on and on about how much they loved their good nigras.
3 people per square meter? you must be kidding...
FYI...1 meter = 3.2 feet applies to India also.. :-)
This racist chuck would never understand.
I was only reiterating what OTOH wrote about maids being looked after by their employers to the extent possible, when I wrote she is a "part of our extended family".
I am no rice christian,no messiah with a mission to "eradicate.....blahblah".
Do your homework first by reading undoctored History before you fulminate,foaming at your mouth.
Another sensible writeup about aol and ssrs:-
http://www.deeshaa.org/is-sri-sri-ravi-shankar-a-con-man/
Kalyani,
Again is more just a opinion of a person that just visited a website ...
You may also think that your relative x was brainwashed and thatz why se cleans the toilets, etc... so in this case, of course, you would blame SSRS..
But just think on the posibility that your relative x may be happy and in peace... or, at least and unfortunately, with mental problems (or been fanatic, etc..).
Of course this last opition is sad, but i'm sure as there are truly seekers (sane and inteliggent)in the ashram... there may be people that are completely lost...
"How close is 250,000 to 2.8 million?"
Thatz why i am saying that 250.000 is the incorrect number... Search in the net and try to find out... (and then please pass me the link... as i did some posts before)
Anyway, I am saying that I was there in Jakkur, and read the local newspapers (and not the online ones)... and all of them mentioned the event, etc.
OTOH, at the beginning I thougth that u was a reasonable person... but found out that u are moved by passion (or dispassion)...
When u assured that there was 250000 and Jakkur could not receive 2.8mi, I got sure that u may not be intentionally lying... but things u say sometimes are not totally known by u, in fact.
Thatz why I claimed for real facts... and now they came...
Ok Sidney,
I was only quoting what I read in the newspapers about the Jubilee. If the initial reporting, which said the program fell far short of the predicted number of 2.5 million and only brought 250,000. If that newspaper was incorrect, and you are a better judge of that because you were present and able to count heads in that number, then great! The fact is that the number changed, mysteriously, weeks after the event. I was indeed just supposing that it would be possible for SSRS to "own" an editor at the on-line version (or hard paper version) of the Deccan Herald. I've seen him pay off other officials for far more serious offenses, so why not a simple news story? the supposition was not at all far-fetched.
It is clear to me that you refuse to look at anything I have written that is factual about this supposed "great man" who is really a crook, conning people all over the world. Go visit him, take posts of from here and ask him if what I have said about him (the stories I've written in the various threads here) are incorrect. Until that, you are just a person who met him 3 times who thinks he is great and knows virtually nothing about what type of man he really is. You don't have to take my word for anything. But don't claim to know anything about him until you have done a thorough investigation in person yourself. You will probably not like what you find if you do, unless you are a person of very little moral character.
You have never addressed the most unpleasant things I've said about him except to say that they never happened to you (so what?) or to say that maybe that is what those people needed at that time. That last is just an excuse for abusing people. Ravi Shankar is an abuser of good people. No "he is a mirror" comment excuses him.
I think that is all I can say to you because you are clearly part of the zombified group at this point, in spite of your limited contact.
Good luck.
Chuck,
It is clear from your writing that you have been badly wounded by people or things Indian, and for that I am sorry. But look at even this one little fact before judging the whole society:
India has a President named Abdul Kalam who is from a poor background. There have been several such high posts held by "outcaste" (by your rights) individuals. And this only 50 years after the British finished screwing the country! Where is America's first Black or Hispanic or Chinese president? Americans have no right to be so condescending to a young, growing democracy that is stuggling to throw off the chains imposed in the first place by a western country. The caste system was encouraged in it's worst form by the British to control the population.
There is no comparison to "house nigras" in the south, as you have put it, and maids in middle class Indian households. There is no slavery in India.
The prohibitions that still do exist in India between castes are relegated to the most uneducated places and people. As the country grows in education and wealth, even the most backward villages are rejecting those old ways.
Anyway, gurus are another topic, eh?
There are plenty of crappy American gurus. And plenty of crappy American disciples who go to gurus for all sorts of mundane reasons. Besides, what difference is it to desire a male child, or desire enlightenment? A wise man once told me "desire is desire. There is nothing lofty about desiring to be enlightened. IT is no different than desiring a blanket to stay warm. Desire is still desire."
You are tired of Kalyani's whining. You are tired of my being a "crybaby". I'm tired of your complaining about everyone's posts. So we are all in the same boat. Complaining about somebody who differs from us. ARen't we just an elite crew? Yeah, Chuck, you and I are in the same boat. You'd better start bailing.
:-))
"zombified group at this point, in spite of your limited contact."
Ok, now for me thatz clear that what you've said about the event and the "owner" of the journal was just "supposition". The way u wrote it seems to be that u knew that...
About the "zombified group" or "limited contact" think is your judgement...
Someone could stay a life by SSRS side and not absorv anything.
Time is very relative (as said by our friend Einstein... lol).
I'm also quite sure there are "zombified groups" all over the world in very different areas (not just in ashrams)... anyway, the zombies are the only responsible... is like to blame a stone for the people that are around it...
A think a zombie is the result of putting passions above the reason... (or at least, mental diseases)
"You have never addressed the most unpleasant things I've said about him except to say that they never happened to you"
Then i think that I was not clear.. what i was trying to understand from u is what u know in fact and what is your supposition (like the post about the event - this one I argued a lot because I was there, and so it's different for me to judge).
What I said (or mean) about your other posts is that most of the facts u say are resut from your personal judgment. But there aren't facts to afirm that SSRS is "abusing people"... sorry, but thatz to much for me. People are responsable for their acts... i think there is not a vilan and millions of innocent zoombies... that for me sounds "ridiculous"...
And if u were so close to AOL and SSRS u should know that.
Anyway, i won's disturb u anymore.
Tks
Kalyani said,
"Do your homework first by reading undoctored History before you fulminate,foaming at your mouth."
.....................
Are you saying it is the British Empire or the invading Aryans that make you force (like Sri Sri forces your poor unfortunate family member)your maid to clean your own toilet, while paying her next to nothing? Is it the British who force wealthy Indians to live in mansions while their servants live in plastic tents? No, it's the same greed working in them that also works in the British. Why don't you clean up your own shit for a change.
Most of the Indian society is corrupt, therefore most of the gurus are corrupt. But I guess we shouldn't point out the obvious. Hey Kalyani, why don't you join your maid's extended family for a while, then when you come back home you won't miss the money your relative has given to Sri Sri. Sri Sri is just what you all deserve.
This has been the longest whine fest in Guruphiliac history.
So sidney, tell us how SJ has changed your life...how do u justify that this event is more important than other critical problems faced by the world today...Dont you think people/SSRS could have spent this money in a more meaningful way...
Regarding your views on OTOH, I would say you have to read more of his posts in archives...
A wise man once told me "desire is desire. There is nothing lofty about desiring to be enlightened. IT is no different than desiring a blanket to stay warm. Desire is still desire."
Nicely said....I hope every guru seeker understands this...
I don't find anything racist in what chuck has said. If he said the US government is corrupt, he wouldn't be making a statement against white men. Dontbullme has had some things to say about the intense greed within the Indian community. Does that make him a racist?
George Bush is what Americans deserve at this point. Sri Sri is what Indians deserve.
Facedog,
So by your rights, Germans deserved Hitler, and the Jews of Europe deserved him too? People just get what they deserve? Whatever. That leaves no room for anyone to ever do anything to bring about justice again. What a boring world you have created.
And what a silly way to take what facedog did say. You just can't deal with people not seeing it your way. Your comparison of Sri Sri to Hitler brings your entire self pitying rant against him into question. Do you really think your ego wounds compare to what the Jews went through under Hitler? Neither do I. Neither does facedog, I suspect.
If you cared as much about justice as you seem to believe, you would be making these claims against Sri Sri public.
If you cared as much about justice as you seem to believe, you would be making these claims against Sri Sri public.
There will be no justice. Sri Sri is a juggernaut now, a big time guru. It's going to take a major scandal to bring him down. If he's careful, it won't happen.
ontheotherhand is looking for private justice, i.e. revenge.
He has already had justice because he came to Sri Sri to get ego gratification and received it. Like Sri Sri himself he wanted to be the "master", not remain a "master's" lapdog. The same thing happened to several of Maharishi's boys. They got tired of being a big cog in the wheel and wanted to be the wheel. Johnny Gray of "Men are from Mars...infamy, Deepthroat Chopra, and Sri Sri, to name a few. It is justice that these guys left and embarrassed Maharishi. It is justice that otoh left Sri Sri and is embarrassing him on line.
Real revenge will cost otoh a little more. He would have to stand out in the open and give his name, rank, and serial number. For Maharishi, things started getting difficult when people began to file lawsuits. Now he is seen as a joke. Even people who follow him must be hoping that his time on earth is short.
After that all the structures Maharishi has worked so hard to build will blow away like a fart in a breeze. That is also justice.
Chuck,
And now you need to get revenge against me because I disagree with you. You also didn't read my last post at all. You just make things up to please your own ego and to bash other people.
I don't pity myself at all over Sri Sri. If you read my posts about him you would get it. I am seeking justice for others, as I have stated before on threads here. But that's really none of your business is it, chuck?
You just want somebody to boss around, somebody to insult and abuse. Rita left, so you started on me. Don't you know any gurus to rank on dude? That's what this site is really about imo.
I'm not a very important punching bag for all the energy you seem to be expending on me. I don't care what you say as it turns out.
Sri Sri Ravi Shankar is a crook, a fraud and will be exposed sooner or later. Jody is probably right that because SSRS has become so big and popular it could take a major scandal for people to listen.
I have not taken, nor will I take any of the foul smelling bait offered here to "go public" blah blah blah and get real justice, etc. and so forth ad nauseum. I am content to read that Kalyani has shown my truthful postings about Ravi Shankar's deceit to several families and their decline in the direction of that ashram has been stopped. They will tell others. And they will tell others. I'm happy about that. No insult you or Rita or anyone else interested in bashing me can take away that pleasure. And no amount of your "ego busting" (as I'm certain you see yourself as some kind of teacher of the hapless lost ego-centered fools such as myself) makes you any different from any other self-important person I may have come across in life. I learn a few things from you chuck -- that you don't read well, don't get the point of what people post quite often, are a racist, and you don't like my criticisms of Ravi Shankar. Too bad. I will continue to criticize him here for as long as Jody allows me on this site. If that displeases you, you can stop reading what I write.
chuck,
Oh, and once again, I hate to remind you but.....you don't know me at all, so you have no clue why I went to Ravi Shankar. You say that I went there for ego gratification. For all you know, I'm a "shallow middle class Indian" who went there for something mundane like a cancer cure for my mother, dude.
You are really nuts if you think you are now a mind reader on-line.
OTOH,
You're right, I missed the last thing you wrote. Sorry. I can only take so much about Sri Sri. He is too empty a vessel to spend so much anger on.
There is still nothing racist in what I said. Your depiction of the changes in India are bogus. The caste system is alive and well and as ugly as anything that happened in America. Your hatred of Americans is noted. My crystal ball tells me you are British and ashamed of it. Remember that you criticized and pointed the finger at me first. Last but not least you are definitely an angry crybaby.
Chuck,
Guess on! Are you warm? I'll never tell. Are you cold? Keep fishing.
Ravi Shankar is not an empty vessel. He is a vessel full of ego, just like you and me. He is the biggest crybaby I ever met. He flips out if anyone dares to disagree with him. Maybe I spent too much time from him and became like him :-)))
Your opinion of me is irrelevant vis a vis the truth about Ravi Shankar. I'm posting here to protest for the many, many others who don't even have an internet connection, a life left, a home, a career, because lovely SSRS spoiled their lives. I'll continuing doing that in hopes that people like Kalyani spread the word and some people are spared that end. I got off lucky! He was unable to do to me what he did to many others.
I don't hate Americans at all. I don't hate any one group of people anywhere. You are projecting your own hatred of Indians onto others. All countries have their faults and strong points.
P.S. Chuck,
I'll be happy to send you a thesauras if you like so you can add to your repetoire of insults. "Crybaby" and "elitist crybaby" and "whine" all lose their punch after some time. You need to incorporate some new words into your barrage of insults to keep people thinking I'm just a loony critizing your great guru, Ravi Shankar.
Why do we go to a guru, for search of peace, happiness. Now if we logically think, both of these do not exist. It is only a state of the mind. Unless you have a preconceived notion about happiness or peace you cannot actually experience it. It is a sensual experience not a spiritual one. So if you go to a guru and try to experience everlasting peace and happiness, devoid of sorrows technically it is impossible for there is no permanent happiness at all. To be in that state you need to first have an idea of permanent happiness and based on this you begin to experience which is so thought induced than the actual experience. It is like learning about heat and trying to feel how heat feels. This can never be achieved. Everything we do to attain this fictious state of mind, is taking us away from what we are. Unless we realize this and question every action of the guru and test him, before blindly accepting him, we will have people like this blindly following and doing and believing everything in blind faith.
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